Speculation: 2018 Off-Season: We fell short again... now what do we do?

Discussion in 'Tampa Bay Lightning' started by AlwaysSunnyInTampa, May 23, 2018.

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  1. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    if yzerman is still unwilling to move Cal Foote then I don't see anything that will interest ottawa. Trading Tyler Johnson and Cal Foote for Karlsson should be enough value for them at this point at least without a EK extension in place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  2. Palat

    Palat Registered User

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    Only was karlson comes is via free agency. McD trade put a stop to that.
     
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  3. CupsOverCash

    CupsOverCash Registered User

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    Only way I see him traded here is if we have a MSL type situation. Where he only wants to re-sign in TB. At that point we would have to beat a price that a team is willing to pay for him as a rental. Which he would be a rental at that point. This is a long shot though. I think he gets traded to Vegas and they re-sign him to a mega deal.
     
  4. AlwaysSunnyInTampa

    AlwaysSunnyInTampa At last!! Street cred is mine!

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    Whether it's Karlsson or someone else Yzerman needs to put an end to the "Who's the PMD?" problem that we've had for God knows how long. Hedman's bread and butter has been to both score goals and create scoring chances off the rush. He's fantastic at it. He's more spontaneous than a puck mover. But that's okay because we're designed to score off the rush and be spontaneous. We're built to a strength of his. But as we learned against the Capitals, that can be easily taken away. And as we learned, meticulous defensive zone dissection isn't really Hedman's thing at even strength. Fair enough because he's so great at all other else. We won't need him to be that guy if we add someone else. Hedman will be there when there's odd man rushes and the other will be there when a team like the Capitals are boxed out and we're forced along the perimeter.

    There's Sergachev. He's probably gonna be the key that busts all the locks for us one day. But there's a catch. The key isn't done being made yet. Unless he wakes up one day in October and realizes "I'm a top 4 D who can play 20 minutes a night in all situations" he's going to continue to be brought in slowly. I don't want us to rush him. The kid is going to be 20 years old some time this month. He'll be better in the long run if we don't cast him into the fire.

    So bring someone else in and let everyone else play to their strengths. Our ex NYR and Coburn can stick to defense and when it comes to offense let Hedman focus on power plays and scoring off the rush. Otherwise he's a Norris caliber D. As for Sergachev, don't force too much on him too quickly. Let him grow into the long term solution we've been craving and just get someone else who can help now to buy us time for Sergachev's development. The fact we run an 11/7 so often will make our defense that much more balanced if we get another puck mover back there.

    It doesn't need to be a super star. Even Marc-Andre Bergeron and Nikita Nesterov fit the bill to what I'm talking about here. We just need someone who actually has at least two functioning brain cells unlike them. And come playoff time you can stick someone like McDonagh with them to watch their back at even strength.
     
  5. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Unexpected GF% of 100%

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    Wow. That's an awful post.
     
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  6. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    problem is with the rest of our guys in there prime now we need sergachev to be a 24 year old legit top 4 guy not a 19 year old d man we have to watch and live with his young mistakes learning.
     
  7. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    I don't get it. I argue Cooper is heavily responsible yet the return is, we need defenseman that can move their feet to get pucks through. The solution? Horrible ass defenseman like Nesterov or MAB who can't defend but can act as a 4th forward that occasionally breaks up the play. So that's what can put us over the top? I don't get it. Look at other teams. Engelland has stone hands and was heavily relied upon. They aren't parting with him. Puck moving defenseman like Maata and even bigger names like Letang continuously cost his team goals. We have a very capable and competent group. Sure it could be more mobile but I'd say we have a pretty good top four with Girardi and Coburn as a nice 3rd pairing.


    On a serious note I really hate Antoine Roussel but I wouldn't mind us trying for him. Thoughts?
     
  8. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    I like our d group I just wish Sergachev was a little older with our core then he would be perfect. I think we need bigger type of forwards to survive deep in the playoffs. Otherwise we will just keep hitting that ECF wall and getting knocked out
     
  9. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    Understandable but he was better than Stralman and McDonagh at times so I don't really see him out of place in the top 4 this coming season. The more he plays, the better. That added mobility instead of being sheltered will suit our style even more. Keeping Girardi a bit more fresh as well as Coburn on 3rd pairing duties while they play PK too helps out guys like Hedman and McDonagh at the end of the year. The Girardi signing was monumental. It let Sergachev ease in and now the flip should switch and by the time Girardi is gone after this season, Cernak or Foote step in.
     
  10. Sky04

    Sky04 Registered User

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    We need a PMD, but we have a PMD but maybe we just get a PMD who's worse then the PMD we have growing so that we can have more issues defensively.

    We literally have 2 blue chip defenseman in the works, no need to go out and grab a one-dimensional player off the market, we need a better coaching system that gets pucks out of the d-zone.
     
  11. AlwaysSunnyInTampa

    AlwaysSunnyInTampa At last!! Street cred is mine!

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    I'd like to take a second to ask each and every person here how intend to solve teams going full Babcock on us come playoff time with the defensemen we have now. Because if Sergachev was ready for 15+ minutes at even strength alone do any of you here think I would be suggesting another PMD to balance our defense? Serious question.
     
  12. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    Vegas was all about quick strike, heavy pressure and never giving up. Their defense was pretty active and mobile and they got shelled in 5 games.

    Vegas has a mobile defense and structure in place, they went five games. We have a very good two way defense that played terrible - as a team - and got beat in 7 (Albeit it could've been 5 if we swapped Vasy for anybody else). The only way to combat that is to play a heavy style that gets their defenseman turning. We made Orpik look like Hedman most nights. Guy has footspeed like Jason Garrison and still never got walked or even had it rough with a team as fast as ours. Like Evgeny "I don't play defense myself" Kuznetsov said, our forecheck doesn't work. It didnt. They basically, or should I say Holtby, waited for the inevitable easy dump 1 foot off the ice or on the ice, to then make 1 pass and successfully break out. We had very little success sustaining pressure for lengths of time and even when we did, we passed ourselves into submission. That's not a defenseman issue moving their feet issue. We didn't score for damn near three full games, that's not fixed with getting Marc Andre Bergeron type defenseman.


    This team didn't need a Niskanen, Maata, etc type guy. We got beat in my opinion, in 18 out of 21 periods, because we were smaller (and pur bigger guys played even smaller) and failed to expose their weaknesses. Kempny was selling pucks to opposing players, Orpik is like a freight train that goes 2MPH, Orlov is good but made a LOT of mistakes this postseason, etc. We made their defensive group look like Team Canada at times. If your defense is bad, you can single out where you need help. If your offense is bad, you can single out where you need help. Other than adding some size to help us going forward, there really wasn't a mismatch in skill. In heart, yes. But systematically we didn't make it hard on them. Neither did Vegas after game 2 tbh.

    Adding size up front and the removal of Bowness should help. Anything less than a cup and Cooper should be gone. I like his philosophy of getting close to players and he certainly is a good coach, but I'm not sure he has what it takes at the moment to find out how to get over the hump.
     
  13. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Still Drej

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  14. DistantThunderRep

    DistantThunderRep Registered User

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    Who be this guy?
     
  15. BoltSTH

    BoltSTH Registered User

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    Without stripping our prospects, and roster, and be in cap hell, the only way I see it work is Kucherov - Karlsson. May be a third team needed as Sens probably too cheap to pay Kuch. Think there is 1% chance that would happen, but the only way I see it could.
     
  16. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    Stamkos+ for Karlsson. Lmao could you imagine this board if that happened...
     
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  17. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Still Drej

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    Erik Karlsson is a defenseman with the Ottawa Senators of the National Hockey League (NHL)

    Nick Alberga is Host, Ice Cap & Off the Rush on @SiriusXMNHL / Hockey Central Saturday on the @Sportsnet Radio Network / Fantasy Forecast & The Playoff Muzzy on @TBLPowerPlay

     
  18. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    Lmao. 10 points goes to you for that one.
     
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  19. AlwaysSunnyInTampa

    AlwaysSunnyInTampa At last!! Street cred is mine!

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    You're right. Transition was garbage all series long but pick your poison. We can Hail Mary it (and it worked for a minute there) but once the Caps find some more urgency and double back (and they did and started killing us) all that's really left is seeing if your guys can sneak past a stacked line. That didn't work either and we saw guys like Kucherov and Stamkos fail at it.

    But for me the PMD comes in when we DO gain the zone and immediately the Caps are standing up at the net. But here's where you nail it.

    Winner winner. Biggest problem the whole series to me right here.

    When teams box out that's it. You essentially have to take what they give you if they are executing properly. If they play right the opposing team passes itself into submission. Now THIS is where I go on about the PMD. Where are the shots going to come from? You can try from the circles but they can be blocked if the player is standing still. They can come from the point but will be blocked if the player is standing still. But all together the safest play is a shot from the point. If it gets blocked your defensemen are the first players back. Make the defense move its feet and the only way they're gonna move is if at least 4 the of 5 guys on the ice attacking them are. If enough players are engaged the defending players going to be running a fire drill. About 3 passes and BAM scoring chance with a rebound in front. That never happened for us. It happened exactly as you said. We passed into submission.

    Far, FAR too many times we had 3 players down low passing themselves to death while 2 guys were ready double back on the blue line almost scared to touch the puck. Our defense was rarely engaged. That's not gonna work. You HAVE TO get a man up high engaged otherwise you're only partially spreading the defense. Why we didn't I don't know. It may very well be the coaching these guys are getting. It could be and if it was then idk why the hell Cooper is still here. I bang the table for another PMD because I've watched guys like Stralman and Coburn for 2 years now and I know the fastest way to kill an offensive possession is to put the puck on their stick. Unless we were going to shoot over and over and over again without any regard where the puck was going and we send guys to the net going full blast without regard for odd man rushes I don't see how we can win. I think it's too risky.

    Coop had us banging our heads against the wall all series long but I don't know what else we could've done. It was all we had against Detroit in 2015. Effort isn't gonna cut it against the Chinese Finger Trap. That's why we got smoked in transition for 18 periods. But if you can't attack them back and forth you at least have to score when they're defending their half the ice.
     
  20. Sky04

    Sky04 Registered User

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    Would be an upgrade.
     
  21. AlwaysSunnyInTampa

    AlwaysSunnyInTampa At last!! Street cred is mine!

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    Would be nearly impossible to argue against at that point
     
  22. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Unexpected GF% of 100%

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    HUGE upgrade.
     
  23. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    And stamkos tells yzerman with his no movement clause find another team im not going to Ottawa!
     
  24. AlwaysSunnyInTampa

    AlwaysSunnyInTampa At last!! Street cred is mine!

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    It wouldn't be Stamkos going back anyway. If I seriously had to guess a trade right this minute for Karlsson

    Johnson (cuz you know Duchene isn't sticking around)
    2019 1st round pick
    Koekkoek
    Prospect - depends on who but for Karlsson I doubt any are untouchable now

    I know this isn't either a good or attractive proposal but I doubt anyone else is going to have an offer this good either. Maybe, MAYBE Vegas? In either case Karlsson's arrival would set forth a nice domino effect down the lineup
     
  25. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    Yeah no doubt. Would never happen though. He's pretty much dead set on Stamkos it seems so I really can't see Yzerman moving him though unfortunately.
     
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