Speculation: 2018 Off-Season: We fell short again... now what do we do?

[Stammertime91]

And stamkos tells yzerman with his no movement clause find another team im not going to Ottawa!

Meh. At least his effort would match their expectations on most nights.

It wouldn't be Stamkos going back anyway. If I seriously had to guess a trade right this minute for Karlsson

Johnson (cuz you know Duchene isn't sticking around)
2019 1st round pick
Koekkoek
Prospect - depends on who but for Karlsson I doubt any are untouchable now

I know this isn't either a good or attractive proposal but I doubt anyone else is going to have an offer this good either. Maybe, MAYBE Vegas? In either case Karlsson's arrival would set forth a nice domino effect down the lineup

There's probably 20 teams with a better package than that. Stamkos is pretty much the most damage controlled and highest valued piece we could offer with an addition. Outside of that, we aren't giving them Johnson, a stunted Koekkoek, 2019 1st and a prospect for Erik Karlsson. Unless your prospect is Foote and then it kicks tires.

The closest thing they'd probably take is one of Point or Sergachev+ or a combination STARTING with Foote, one of Raddysh, Volkov, etc, roster player and a decent pick. He's got one year left so it's not entirely worth it. The one that would actually be better is moving Stamkos as their cap hit will be somewhat similar and solidifies our top 4 with Sergachev for over a decade. You could put Carle in that top 4. The trick would be replacing the production from a 1C/2C if Point moves up.

But that's a pipe dream. "Easiest" route is move a couple contracts and hit him with an offer next off season providing he hasn't signed an extension. While it would be nice to add him, its a completely luxurious addition. Size up front should be our entire focus this offseason. We shaded away from it for a spell with adding smaller guys and "big" guys who don't play big for too long. Time for that to change.

 

[Sky04]

Yeah no doubt. Would never happen though. He's pretty much dead set on Stamkos it seems so I really can't see Yzerman moving him though unfortunately.

More of a politics "no-no" which is unfortunately a big part of business, in a vaccum though moving Stamkos after this season for a huge return would actually be a blessing down the line. He's about as untouchable as it gets unless he wants out.

 

[Stammertime91]

More of a politics "no-no" which is unfortunately a big part of business, in a vaccum though moving Stamkos after this season for a huge return would actually be a blessing down the line. He's about as untouchable as it gets unless he wants out.

Yeah sadly. Even if it meant a better product on the ice (if it didn't shake the entire team), it would spell the end of Yzerman. Vinny, MSL and then him. I wish we could do a Subban for Weber type cause Point on most nights is the most impactful player and he's a viable two way center that can play 1C or 2C in just two years. Moving another captain and the marketing hit would be disastrous but it would really help.


Has anybody actually crunched the numbers to see whether we can actually afford him next year? I did the contracts a while back I think last year or two years ago pre Johnson/Palat contracts and they were really close to what I predicted iirc. So was Drouins even though he signed in MTL. I may give it a whirl but im genuinely curious if we can sign him after giving raises and letting guys walk WITHOUT moving 91. Off the top of my head, I think Johnson and Killorn would both have to move?

 

[Todd1a]

Yeah sadly. Even if it meant a better product on the ice (if it didn't shake the entire team), it would spell the end of Yzerman. Vinny, MSL and then him. I wish we could do a Subban for Weber type cause Point on most nights is the most impactful player and he's a viable two way center that can play 1C or 2C in just two years. Moving another captain and the marketing hit would be disastrous but it would really help.


Has anybody actually crunched the numbers to see whether we can actually afford him next year? I did the contracts a while back I think last year or two years ago pre Johnson/Palat contracts and they were really close to what I predicted iirc. So was Drouins even though he signed in MTL. I may give it a whirl but im genuinely curious if we can sign him after giving raises and letting guys walk WITHOUT moving 91. Off the top of my head, I think Johnson and Killorn would both have to move?

Ya we can sign point and Kucherov but other then hedman and sergachev like all our defenseman need to be elc contracts lol and probably need to buy out Callahans last season to sign mcdonagh or stralman again

 

[Sky04]

Yeah sadly. Even if it meant a better product on the ice (if it didn't shake the entire team), it would spell the end of Yzerman. Vinny, MSL and then him. I wish we could do a Subban for Weber type cause Point on most nights is the most impactful player and he's a viable two way center that can play 1C or 2C in just two years. Moving another captain and the marketing hit would be disastrous but it would really help.


Has anybody actually crunched the numbers to see whether we can actually afford him next year? I did the contracts a while back I think last year or two years ago pre Johnson/Palat contracts and they were really close to what I predicted iirc. So was Drouins even though he signed in MTL. I may give it a whirl but im genuinely curious if we can sign him after giving raises and letting guys walk WITHOUT moving 91. Off the top of my head, I think Johnson and Killorn would both have to move?

Karlsson? We have almost 7+ million in capspace right now with Paquette, KK and Miller needing new contracts, this is before the cap increase so we have between 10-12m~. We could fit him with very minor tweaks but the year after would require movement. I don't see a point in trading assets for him though, we could easily just wait a year and use those assets (Johnson/Killorn/Miller) for something else and sign Karlsson via UFA and let McDonagh walk.

 

[Stammertime91]

Karlsson? We have almost 7+ million in capspace right now with Paquette, KK and Miller needing new contracts, this is before the cap increase so we have between 10-12m~. We could fit him with very minor tweaks but the year after would require movement. I don't see a point in trading assets for him though, we could easily just wait a year and use those assets (Johnson/Killorn/Miller) for something else and sign Karlsson via UFA and let McDonagh walk.

Yeah for Karlsson. Yeah I'm in favor of FA > trade if we were to go after him as well. Would rather just offer him than move a package. At least it would give Raddysh, Volkov and whoever else another year to replace somebody while on an ELC.

 

[These Are The Days]

This is probably going to sound fatalistic but if Yzerman has his eyes set on Karlsson he's not gonna be able to afford to wait til July 1st 2019. Unless the guy pulls a Stamkos/Tavares and waits til near the end to re-sign he's more than likely going to be re-signed by the team that trades for him. Someone I'm sure will have to make an offer that blows the Sens away. Sooner the better for the Lightning as pertains to the Karlsson sweepstakes.

 

[Felonious Python]

what about a package including McD for Karlsson?

 

[Stormbreaker]

what about a package including McD for Karlsson?

Would do it in a heartbeat, but I don't think Ottawa would bite.

 

[Felonious Python]

Would do it in a heartbeat, but I don't think Ottawa would bite.

McD also has a limited NTC, and I don't see a lot of players waiving to go to Ottawa this offseason.

 

[Sky04]

This is probably going to sound fatalistic but if Yzerman has his eyes set on Karlsson he's not gonna be able to afford to wait til July 1st 2019. Unless the guy pulls a Stamkos/Tavares and waits til near the end to re-sign he's more than likely going to be re-signed by the team that trades for him. Someone I'm sure will have to make an offer that blows the Sens away. Sooner the better for the Lightning as pertains to the Karlsson sweepstakes.

So? Doesn't mean they'll re-sign him... he could just walk from said team on July 1st anyways, no team is going to give up an insane package for 1 year. Doesn't mean we'll sign him either it just means if we were to go after him it would only be through UFA.

 

[Stammertime91]

I don't think players would take too kindly to being dealt and then again being dealt from a team that just acquired you. For that reason I don't think Yzerman would move McDonagh again. It's pretty shrewd and sends a message of discontentment after acquiring a player like him - even if it does make us better. In all honesty, if prefer him to let McDonagh walk after giving us another year with him for a run and letting Sergachev take the 2LD spot and EK/Stralman on the right (if we keep Stralman on board). It really works out well and I'm sure it's probably something he's thinking about as McDonagh is gonna cost a lot more than we probably really want to spend, especially a spot that Sergachev could be heading into his 3rd year owning.

 

[These Are The Days]

So? Doesn't mean they'll re-sign him... he could just walk from said team on July 1st anyways, no team is going to give up an insane package for 1 year. Doesn't mean we'll sign him either it just means if we were to go after him it would only be through UFA.

That's fair enough because you can say that for anyone but I can't imagine them making the trade for Karlsson without maybe SOME sort of understanding that he'll come back. You're right NO ONE is giving up an insane package for a 1 year player. But for all purposes the team trading for him may be wise to engineer a sign-and-trade to prevent that from happening to keep all the negotiations in good faith. I'm not one to assume Yzerman's motives but he sees the type that would make sure an extension was in place to make sure that very thing of walking away doesn't happen to us.

 

[DFC]

Anyone with a NTC is not going to want to get anywhere near the gongshow that is the current Ottawa Senators.

I don't think we have the assets to do it without Point involved, and, with the way Stamkos looks at times, I don't think we can afford to give up Point.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think were more likely to have Tavares on our team next year than Karlsson. At least with Tavares we dont give up any assets but probably will trade Johnson in this case. Probably Miller too. In all likelihood we dont have either and have to look for other options to improve our team. We may not have the pieces that we want to give up for Karlsson but theres gotta be a trade or move to be made somewhere that makes us better.

 

[Hockey4Life91]

There's literally zero chance that we trade for Karlsson. Sure, he may opt to come here in free agency (still unlikely). But the McD trade sealed our fate. As some have mentioned, we simply don't have the assets to make it happen. Stamkos isn't going anywhere. Nor will SY even think for a moment about trading Point or Sergachev. The value they provide given their output/cost control contracts far outweighs one season with Karlsson. The next two first round picks are tied up (one conditional). A package including Foote, Raddysh and a future first plainly isn't sufficient.

With all of that said, I am salivating at the thought of moving Johnson, plus someone else, and having Stammer convince his buddy Tavares to win 3 cups here. Again, it is not realistic. But one can dream, right?!

Kucherov-Tavares-Miller
Palat-Point-X
Killorn-Stamkos-Gourde
Erne-Cirelli-Cally

Hedman-Girardi
McDonagh-Stralman
Sergachev-Coburn

Vasy

- add someone with size, speed and skill, who can play nasty, and this roster wins a cup.
- and, we must add a coach who convinces the players to play for dirty goals in the ECF; it is not going to be pretty, and our series' against Chicago, Pitt and Washington showed that our style of play can result in massive dry spells. This cannot be tolerated any longer. Our biggest issue (save breaking the neutral zone clogging) was failure to shoot pucks from every which direction. Particularly from the point with screens in front of Holtby. Stamkos is the biggest offender. And I am convinced his hockey IQ is sub-par. Replace his shot with Suster's noodle, and I am not sure he is in the NHL in 2020.

 

[Todd1a]

There's literally zero chance that we trade for Karlsson. Sure, he may opt to come here in free agency (still unlikely). But the McD trade sealed our fate. As some have mentioned, we simply don't have the assets to make it happen. Stamkos isn't going anywhere. Nor will SY even think for a moment about trading Point or Sergachev. The value they provide given their output/cost control contracts far outweighs one season with Karlsson. The next two first round picks are tied up (one conditional). A package including Foote, Raddysh and a future first plainly isn't sufficient.

With all of that said, I am salivating at the thought of moving Johnson, plus someone else, and having Stammer convince his buddy Tavares to win 3 cups here. Again, it is not realistic. But one can dream, right?!

Kucherov-Tavares-Miller
Palat-Point-X
Killorn-Stamkos-Gourde
Erne-Cirelli-Cally

Hedman-Girardi
McDonagh-Stralman
Sergachev-Coburn

Vasy

- add someone with size, speed and skill, who can play nasty, and this roster wins a cup.
- and, we must add a coach who convinces the players to play for dirty goals in the ECF; it is not going to be pretty, and our series' against Chicago, Pitt and Washington showed that our style of play can result in massive dry spells. This cannot be tolerated any longer. Our biggest issue (save breaking the neutral zone clogging) was failure to shoot pucks from every which direction. Particularly from the point with screens in front of Holtby. Stamkos is the biggest offender. And I am convinced his hockey IQ is sub-par. Replace his shot with Suster's noodle, and I am not sure he is in the NHL in 2020.

I don't see Tavares passing on a major pay day to win cups here Johnson has his NTC kick in July 1st and Tavares can't sign till july 1st with other clubs

 

[Todd1a]

what about trading JT miller for Jeff Skinner ? give us a upgrade in our top 6

 

[Sky04]

what about trading JT miller for Jeff Skinner ? give us a upgrade in our top 6

huh? JT Miller easily has a shot at 60+ points here next year with plenty of size, makes no sense to trade that for Skinner.

 

[Felonious Python]

what about trading JT miller for Jeff Skinner ? give us a upgrade in our top 6

a forward for forward doesn't make a ton of sense here. McD (in a package) for Karlsson does as it's predicated on the idea that Karlsson wants out and there's only so many higher end D in the league. Who knows when they'll get a real #1 d-man again.

 

[Todd1a]

man I remember when yzerman drafted bret connolly over jeff skinner in the 2010 nhl draft for his first ever draft pick

 

[CupsOverCash]

Does McDonagh have a trade clause in any way? It would be weird to trade him right after trading for him. If it got us Karlsson I wouldnt be against it at all.

 

[The Macho King]

Does McDonagh have a trade clause in any way? It would be weird to trade him right after trading for him. If it got us Karlsson I wouldnt be against it at all.

Ryan McDonagh - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Modified NTC. 10 team list he would *not* accept a trade to. I'm wondering if he submits that list July 1 (in which case last years list would still be operable).

 

[Todd1a]

Does McDonagh have a trade clause in any way? It would be weird to trade him right after trading for him. If it got us Karlsson I wouldnt be against it at all.

We’re not trading mcdonagh and I’d expect yzerman to extend his contract at some point this season.

 

[Felonious Python]

man I remember when yzerman drafted bret connolly over jeff skinner in the 2010 nhl draft for his first ever draft pick

Yzerman let the scouting staff he inherited do that draft.