Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VII

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yeah, I'm really hoping that was a tough translation.

A Russian colleague translated this. It's always difficult to translate from Russian to any Latin language so it's not a word-for-word translation. Sentence structure etc is completely different

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

yes, but the way they presented the questions to him sounds like they were trying to get him pissed against the Rangers/NHL/AHL. That is Russian style to twist the truth to try to force you to come to the conclusion they want you top come to.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

yes, but the way they presented the questions to him sounds like they were trying to get him pissed against the Rangers/NHL/AHL.

I think it's a stretch to assume it's to "force him to leave the NHL". The questions, and this goes for a lot of other countries, are just more direct than what they usually are in the US.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

A Russian colleague translated this. It's always difficult to translate from Russian to any Latin language so it's not a word-for-word translation. Sentence structure etc is completely different

let me see the Russian version

 

[EdJovanovski]

 

[Leetch3]

"The team told me they see me in their plans for the next 10 years, and then I am told I am not ready for the NHL. I don’t understand."

That quote sounds like the exact difference between talking to the front office and talking to the coaches.

I take that as more of a language barrier issue, have to be careful that just cause the kid can speak english that doesn't mean he fully understands what is being said...as we all know english is weird and often the literal meanings of words isn't what a phrase is intended to mean.

saying that you hope that a player is part of the team for the next decade and you think he is ready for the NHL today those are 2 different things. they also hope that k'andre miller and nils lundkvist are part of the team for the next 10 years but both are a year away likely...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

let me see the Russian version

«Все вокруг улыбались, а потом отношение ко мне резко изменилось». В «Рейнджерс» заявили, что россиянину нужно повзрослеть

Are you going to translate it?

 

[Leetch3]

«Все вокруг улыбались, а потом отношение ко мне резко изменилось». В «Рейнджерс» заявили, что россиянину нужно повзрослеть

Here's the Russian article.

I read this, and I don't know. Everything is, "No one said anything to me." Or, "I didn't understand it." Or, some variation on him not having any idea why anything is happening, no one ever communicates with him, and things are unfair. He seems to feel his treatment at Traktor was unfair, that he was being held to a different standard. The interviewer even kind of presses him on his sensitivity with social media and the fact that as the ninth pick, expectations are different.

I know it's a translation but still, I don't like any of it.

so everyone else is the problem

 

[nyr2k2]

I totally agree it is not normal that Europeans come to Hartford completely not able to produce and run away, it is not normal how many decent prospects instead of being given more icetime and developed are simply discarded to ECHL.

Who did we discard in the ECHL?

 

[nyr2k2]

so everyone else is the problem

I mean, look. I understand the point about the difficulty of translation. But that's definitely the way it comes across.

Clearly, there is a communication issue with him. But the thing is, if you read these interviews, it sounds like he doesn't understand ANYTHING coming from the team. Which, while I'm sure the team could improve in some areas, leads me to believe that he himself has some issues in understanding the bigger picture and what he's going to have to do the make the NHL. And that until he understands those things, it's not really going to matter what the team communicates to him.

 

[Kupo]

«Все вокруг улыбались, а потом отношение ко мне резко изменилось». В «Рейнджерс» заявили, что россиянину нужно повзрослеть

Are you going to translate it?

I’ll translate it into Greek — then translate the Greek version to English. Just to make it a really exciting and confusing read.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Who did we discard in the ECHL?

Maybe he's talking about Elmer

 

[Kupo]

I remember when prospects spent 2-3 full years in the AHL before being called up.

Nowadays you have 21 year old RFA’s holding out and forcing their way into a payday. This is why I can’t be Pro Player anymore.

These kids need to shut their mouths, be humble and force the team to promote them with their play. I’m not basing this opinion on an article about Kravtsov that I don’t fully understand either.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I remember when prospects spent 2-3 full years in the AHL before being called up.

Nowadays you have 21 year old RFA’s holding out and forcing their way into a payday. This is why I can’t be Pro Player anymore.

These kids need to shut their mouths, be humble and force the team to promote them with their play. I’m not basing this opinion on an article about Kravtsov that I don’t fully understand either.

The bigger issue is that teams don't have patience anymore and want to sign their top prospects as soon as possible.

Tarasenko spent 3 full years in the KHL after the draft, Kuznetsov and Kaprizov 4 full years. Mikael Granlund played 3 years in Liiga after he was drafted 9th overall.

With the increased attention for the draft, and prospects (more and more people actually read about it these days), both the media and the fans put pressure on teams IMO. we see Mittelstadt stuck in the AHL instead of playing in college for 2-3 years, Turcotte makes the jump after 1 year. We never truly know how many of these prospects who are rushed would have done better if they were given time to develop but I definitely feel there's a case to be made for teams rushing a lot of their prospects in recent years

 

[bl02]

Are other organizations having these issues that we are having with these kids who are very high picks? I hate to say it but specifically prospects not from North America? Thank goodness we didn't bring Nils over. Kravtsov should have never been brought here. Should have gone the Kuznetsov route (or at least another year or two in the KHL). Kid is not ready for the NHL. And Stop rushing these kids. Nothing good comes out of it.

 

[Thirty One]

Are other organizations having these issues that we are having with these kids who are very high picks? I hate to say it but specifically prospects not from North America? Thank goodness we didn't bring Nils over. Kravtsov should have never been brought here. Should have gone the Kuznetsov route (or at least another year or two in the KHL). Kid is not ready for the NHL. And Stop rushing these kids. Nothing good comes out of it.

But there's another league right below the NHL.

 

[Thirty One]

If the obvious answer is we should have left him in Russia, remind me, do the facts of the case suggest that he would have done well in that scenario?

 

[nyr2k2]

The bigger issue is that teams don't have patience anymore and want to sign their top prospects as soon as possible.

Tarasenko spent 3 full years in the KHL after the draft, Kuznetsov and Kaprizov 4 full years. Mikael Granlund played 3 years in Liiga after he was drafted 9th overall.

With the increased attention for the draft, and prospects (more and more people actually read about it these days), both the media and the fans put pressure on teams IMO. we see Mittelstadt stuck in the AHL instead of playing in college for 2-3 years, Turcotte makes the jump after 1 year. We never truly know how many of these prospects who are rushed would have done better if they were given time to develop but I definitely feel there's a case to be made for teams rushing a lot of their prospects in recent years

It's a possibility. But you never know until you bring a guy over. If your scouts think he's ready to make the jump, I think you do it. You can always loan a player back.

I mean, most observers seemed to think Kravtsov could succeed at this time. He himself thought so. You did argue that he should spend more time in the KHL, bit you also predicted he could make the NHL team and score 30-40 points. I thought he wasn't ready. All of us were wrong; but, my thinking with Kravtsov, is that we weren't wrong based on his actual ability level, but we were wrong because we didn't understand the situation between his ears. Had we all known exactly where he was at mentally, maybe it would have been a different story this year.

I look back, at Artem Anisimov. What would have indicated fifteen years ago that Anisimov was ready to come learn the NA game in Hartford? It was his own development, and the team thought he was ready. So he was here in his D+2 season and it worked very well, because not only was he ready in terms of physical ability, but also in terms of maturity. And he was playing in the same apparently crappy city that is Hartford, and without a bunch of countrymen. He had Baranka one year, and Denisov the next.

So I guess, I don't disagree that some of these guys are being rushed. I think it's more about evaluating the players from a maturity standpoint--meaning not just "Is this guy at the level of an average 20 year old, or is he at the level of a 20 year old who has played top-level hockey for a couple seasons and is beyond his years," but also identifying if the player understands that no matter how big of a deal he WAS, now it has to be earned, now you start at the bottom, you are just one of 21 guys, playing in the AHL is a possibility, etc. Because with Andersson and Kravtsov, I feel like there was some sort of misjudgment on their mental state. Maybe Kravtsov more than Andersson, who I still feel was dicked around a bit, but clearly there was a mental disconnect with both guys and what they were going to have to do.

 

[bl02]

But there's another league right below the NHL.

Doesn't look like for whatever reason our two very high first rounders don't seem to like playing there. Getting into a debate about why Is probably moot. At least let them mature a bit more in their home country before coming here. I'm sure it's not easy coming here as an 18 year old cocky kid and thinking you are gonna make the big club just to be bused to Hartford. At 20/21 that may be a different story. I like what Ottawa is doing with a lot of their prospects in Belleville. Bunch of 19,20,21 year olds really coming into their own.

 

[nyr2k2]

If the obvious answer is we should have left him in Russia, remind me, do the facts of the case suggest that he would have done well in that scenario?

It's also overlooked or forgotten (intentionally) that Kravtsov himself was adamant that he wanted to come over. Does no one remember how he could buy himself out of his KHL contract in 2018, and that after consulting with the team, the decision was "mutually" made to have him play the year in the KHL? And that even after that, he still said his intention was to play in North America when his season ended?

Of course, a responsible team will help the prospect make decisions that are in his best interest, as the Rangers did there. It cannot be forgotten, though, that no one wanted Vitali Kravtsov in North America more than he himself did. So people need not act as if we strong-armed him into coming over.

 

[bl02]

If the obvious answer is we should have left him in Russia, remind me, do the facts of the case suggest that he would have done well in that scenario?

Tough situation for sure because if I remember correctly he was gung-ho on coming over here to play. Maybe the Rangers have to figure this out before they draft someone. Especially someone from Europe or Russia. Unless you're a top 2 pick most likely its gonna be 2-3 years before you make the big club (minimum).

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

«Все вокруг улыбались, а потом отношение ко мне резко изменилось». В «Рейнджерс» заявили, что россиянину нужно повзрослеть

Are you going to translate it?

Thanks.

"Вас там ждут, но только непонятно с каким настроением. Вот и президент клуба говорит следующее: «Если Кравцов еще не повзрослел, найдем иной способ развивать его». Что имеется в виду?" - total BS Russian style, probably misquoted JD quote on purpose.

"Не знаю. Прочитал эти слова в интернете, но со мной никто не разговаривал." even Kravtsov is skeptical of that quote.

"О чем вы поговорили?" trying to get Kravtsov to spill the beans which would likely get him in trouble with Rangers and Hartford coach, but he did not bite.

"И тут вдруг история с тем, что надо «повзрослеть»." again they are questioning the maturity comments supposedly made by JD. And this time they got to him "Искренне не понимаю, в чем именно я должен повзрослеть: живу один, дома могу приготовить еду. Если серьезно, то мне бы самому хотелось понимать суть претензий. Надеюсь, когда я приеду в Нью-Йорк со мной поговорят на эту тему. Но ведь до этого времени никакого контакта с клубом не было. Мне никто не звонил, не писал, я ни с кем не разговаривал, кроме своего агента, но и он не передавал какие-то претензии."

"Не думаю, что это было ошибкой." either he doesn't want to burn bridges with his KHL team or it is not a mistake to know that in KHL his team send him down, which is probably a lot more disrespectful than Rangers not calling him up.

"Скажу только, что не виню в них никого, кроме самого себя. Если у меня в Северной Америке не получилось, затем после возвращение в Россию все пошло не так, как я рассчитывал, то, вероятно, проблема во мне." well said

"Жаль, что мы не можем оценить причину. Но я прекрасно помню, как многие говорили, что Виталий Кравцов в тренировочном лагере не улыбается, вы холодно отреагировали на свою заброшенную шайбу в выставочном матче. В Америке скованных не любят, но это лично моя версия." they are pushing their bogus negative rumors.

"Жаль, что мы не можем оценить причину. Но я прекрасно помню, как многие говорили, что Виталий Кравцов в тренировочном лагере не улыбается, вы холодно отреагировали на свою заброшенную шайбу в выставочном матче. В Америке скованных не любят, но это лично моя версия." interesting, so he requested to be sent down to VHL during period of no KHL games.

"Давай подведем итоги, а то я запутался."--here we go

"Я понимаю, что вы хотите увидеть полную картину сезона, но это не получится. Про некоторые вещи я не могу рассказывать, какие-то и для меня остались непонятными. Так что лучше про все это окончательно забыть. Просто в этой истории нет каких-то героев или людей, которые были виноваты абсолютно во всем." and excellent reply from Vitali to stop the nonsense gossip.

"Все приложения со спортивными новостями удалил, стараюсь ничего не читать лишнего, а сконцентрироваться на работе, но ведь все равно не всегда это получается. А говорят и пишут какие-то странные вещи. То я играть не умею, то закончу скоро. Кошмар. Тут еще Леонид Вайсфельд высказался." - so in Russia they are saying a lot of weird and wrong things about him in the media. He is trying not to read any of it.

" Опять же хочу еще до отъезда поговорить с агентом, чтобы четко понять, рассчитывают ли на меня. Не очень-то здорово будет приехать в Нью-Йорк, потренироваться, а потом команда улетит на доигровку, а мне придется возвращаться в Россию. Глупо же приглашать, чтобы проверить, повзрослел я или нет. Но если есть хотя бы малейшие шансы сыграть, то я готов. Очень соскучился по хоккею. Так понимаю, что следующий сезон начнется только в январе! Шесть месяцев без хоккея!" This is not good, he thinks it is dumb to come be part of the roster and not play in the playoffs. I mean I do agree it is kind of dumb, but he should view it as part of the experience and being part of the organization.

"Вы связываете свою жизнь с «Рейнджерс»?" another weird question.

"В Америке всегда так." nice, that is clearly anti-american bias.

"Не буду говорить, с какими бы партнерами хотел бы сыграть. Это неправильно, да и некрасиво. Но я хотел бы выходить с теми, кто творит на льду. Не просто закидывает шайбу в зону и борется, а играет в хоккей." he does not want to be linemates with the likes of Lemieux.

"Иногда то, что показывают в СМИ, и то, что происходит на самом деле, существенно различается. Надо вернуться и самому посмотреть. Но никакого страха нет." nice he figured out not to trust the Russian news about US

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

problem with Lias was the Howden, problem with Kravtsov is Kakko who was selected a year later and was given games like he belonged in NHL and was never sent down and I think they are both primarily RW fighting for the same spot.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Thanks.

"Вас там ждут, но только непонятно с каким настроением. Вот и президент клуба говорит следующее: «Если Кравцов еще не повзрослел, найдем иной способ развивать его». Что имеется в виду?" - total BS Russian style, probably misquoted JD quote on purpose.

"Не знаю. Прочитал эти слова в интернете, но со мной никто не разговаривал." even Kravtsov is skeptical of that quote.

"О чем вы поговорили?" trying to get Kravtsov to spill the beans which would likely get him in trouble with Rangers and Hartford coach, but he did not bite.

"И тут вдруг история с тем, что надо «повзрослеть»." again they are questioning the maturity comments supposedly made by JD. And this time they got to him "Искренне не понимаю, в чем именно я должен повзрослеть: живу один, дома могу приготовить еду. Если серьезно, то мне бы самому хотелось понимать суть претензий. Надеюсь, когда я приеду в Нью-Йорк со мной поговорят на эту тему. Но ведь до этого времени никакого контакта с клубом не было. Мне никто не звонил, не писал, я ни с кем не разговаривал, кроме своего агента, но и он не передавал какие-то претензии."

"Не думаю, что это было ошибкой." either he doesn't want to burn bridges with his KHL team or it is not a mistake to know that in KHL his team send him down, which is probably a lot more disrespectful than Rangers not calling him up.

"Скажу только, что не виню в них никого, кроме самого себя. Если у меня в Северной Америке не получилось, затем после возвращение в Россию все пошло не так, как я рассчитывал, то, вероятно, проблема во мне." well said

"Жаль, что мы не можем оценить причину. Но я прекрасно помню, как многие говорили, что Виталий Кравцов в тренировочном лагере не улыбается, вы холодно отреагировали на свою заброшенную шайбу в выставочном матче. В Америке скованных не любят, но это лично моя версия." they are pushing their bogus negative rumors.

"Жаль, что мы не можем оценить причину. Но я прекрасно помню, как многие говорили, что Виталий Кравцов в тренировочном лагере не улыбается, вы холодно отреагировали на свою заброшенную шайбу в выставочном матче. В Америке скованных не любят, но это лично моя версия." interesting, so he requested to be sent down to VHL during period of no KHL games.

"Давай подведем итоги, а то я запутался."--here we go

"Я понимаю, что вы хотите увидеть полную картину сезона, но это не получится. Про некоторые вещи я не могу рассказывать, какие-то и для меня остались непонятными. Так что лучше про все это окончательно забыть. Просто в этой истории нет каких-то героев или людей, которые были виноваты абсолютно во всем." and excellent reply from Vitali to stop the nonsense gossip.

"Все приложения со спортивными новостями удалил, стараюсь ничего не читать лишнего, а сконцентрироваться на работе, но ведь все равно не всегда это получается. А говорят и пишут какие-то странные вещи. То я играть не умею, то закончу скоро. Кошмар. Тут еще Леонид Вайсфельд высказался." - so in Russia they are saying a lot of weird and wrong things about him in the media. He is trying not to read any of it.

" Опять же хочу еще до отъезда поговорить с агентом, чтобы четко понять, рассчитывают ли на меня. Не очень-то здорово будет приехать в Нью-Йорк, потренироваться, а потом команда улетит на доигровку, а мне придется возвращаться в Россию. Глупо же приглашать, чтобы проверить, повзрослел я или нет. Но если есть хотя бы малейшие шансы сыграть, то я готов. Очень соскучился по хоккею. Так понимаю, что следующий сезон начнется только в январе! Шесть месяцев без хоккея!" This is not good, he thinks it is dumb to come be part of the roster and not play in the playoffs. I mean I do agree it is kind of dumb, but he should view it as part of the experience and being part of the organization.

"Вы связываете свою жизнь с «Рейнджерс»?" another weird question.

"В Америке всегда так." nice, that is clearly anti-american bias.

"Не буду говорить, с какими бы партнерами хотел бы сыграть. Это неправильно, да и некрасиво. Но я хотел бы выходить с теми, кто творит на льду. Не просто закидывает шайбу в зону и борется, а играет в хоккей." he does not want to be linemates with the likes of Lemieux.

"Иногда то, что показывают в СМИ, и то, что происходит на самом деле, существенно различается. Надо вернуться и самому посмотреть. Но никакого страха нет." nice he figured out not to trust the Russian news about US

I didn't know you speak Russian

 

[Thirty One]

Picture the reaction if the Rangers said to Kravtsov “nah you should stay there for now” and he struggled in the KHL.

Unfortunately, Kravtsov, the Rangers and we the fans likely all overestimated how good he is at this stage of his career.