2018 Management Discussion, Pt. III - Now with Less Trevor and More Mutiny

[Wo Yorfat]

And if they do I’ll be as happy as anyone. Doesn’t mean posting absurdly improbable scenarios is worth any of our time.

Note this is a DISCUSSION board, not a fan cheering board.

How the JBFC see our roster:

Unicorn-Horvat-Boeser
Baertschi-Minotaur-Pettersson
Forrest Elf-Gretzky-Virtanen
Roussell-Beagle-Zeus

Orr-Orr
Orr-Tanev
Edler-Orr

Hasek
Jesus

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

Yes, this is clearly a discussion board, where fans seem to rarely cheer for their team. I don’t think there is this big mutiny the thread title suggests. In fact, I believe our team is going to surprise many this year with how good they are.

Cheering is utterly boring. The only interesting response to "cheering" is criticism, which leads to discussion, which you may consider "negative." If everyone here "cheered", every thread may as well be one post deep. "Go Canucks Go!" 'LOL Canucks are sweet!" "BO FOR CAPTAIN!!!" This certainly is 6-12 year old level stuff, and fit for the Canucks subreddit if it's fit for anywhere.

 

[valkynax]

Yes, this is clearly a discussion board, where fans seem to rarely cheer for their team. I don’t think there is this big mutiny the thread title suggests. In fact, I believe our team is going to surprise many this year with how good they are.

How...?

Our D-corps, outside of Edler and Tanev, is a total mess. Our forward group other than Horvat and BB6 is mostly washed up vets whose only job is to cash in their f***ing pension checks.

And our goal tenders are average, if I'm being extraordinarily generous.

 

[Fatass]

How...?

Our D-corps, outside of Edler and Tanev, is a total mess. Our forward group other than Horvat and BB6 is mostly washed up vets whose only job is to cash in their ****ing pension checks.

And our goal tenders are average, if I'm being extraordinarily generous.

I agree with our goaltending assessment. Nilsen and Markstrom are not NHL starters. They are crap. I’m expecting Demko to take that spot though. With Demko our team will be a lot better.

 

[pgj98m3]

I agree with our goaltending assessment. Nilsen and Markstrom are not NHL starters. They are crap. I’m expecting Demko to take that spot though. With Demko our team will be a lot better.

Still will be a lottery team

 

[valkynax]

I agree with our goaltending assessment. Nilsen and Markstrom are not NHL starters. They are crap. I’m expecting Demko to take that spot though. With Demko our team will be a lot better.

Again...HOW? How will this team be "a lot better"?

 

[CanaFan]

I agree with our goaltending assessment. Nilsen and Markstrom are not NHL starters. They are crap. I’m expecting Demko to take that spot though. With Demko our team will be a lot better.

Maybe, but probably not. Demko will be a rookie goalie breaking into the NHL and there is a huge learning curve with that.

Besides, check these stats from Markstrom and Demko’s D+4 season:

Marky: 2.32 GAA .927 sv%

Demko: 2.69 GAA .927 sv%


Making the transition from AHL to NHL is neither simple nor guaranteed.

 

[Melvin]

I have no doubt that our goaltending will take a lot of blame this season, since most people blame shitty defence on goaltending.

 

[Hodgy]

Maybe, but probably not. Demko will be a rookie goalie breaking into the NHL and there is a huge learning curve with that.

Besides, check these stats from Markstrom and Demko’s D+4 season:

Marky: 2.32 GAA .927 sv%

Demko: 2.69 GAA .927 sv%


Making the transition from AHL to NHL is neither simple nor guaranteed.

But Demko willl be different.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Maybe, but probably not. Demko will be a rookie goalie breaking into the NHL and there is a huge learning curve with that.

Besides, check these stats from Markstrom and Demko’s D+4 season:

Marky: 2.32 GAA .927 sv%

Demko: 2.69 GAA .927 sv%


Making the transition from AHL to NHL is neither simple nor guaranteed.

Didn’t Rollie talk about how Markstrom learned improper techniques and had positional issues with his time in Florida? I remember him being critical of Markstrom’s training in Florida and how they had to undue a bunch of his bad habits that he was taught. That, along with his poor start and confidence issues, might distinguish him from Demko. Even watching Markstrom as a Canucks fan, it’s clear he has confidence issues with letting in weak goals early on in games. I don’t see confidence being an issue with Demko at this point.

 

[Fatass]

Again...HOW? How will this team be "a lot better"?

You don’t think our goaltending has been crap with Markstrom and Nilsen? A top quality goaltender will absolutely make any team better. And crappy goaltending makes teams appear worse than they are.

 

[y2kcanucks]

You don’t think our goaltending has been crap with Markstrom and Nilsen? A top quality goaltender will absolutely make any team better. And crappy goaltending makes teams appear worse than they are.

We had average goaltending. But that defense will make any goalie look awful.

 

[MS]

You don’t think our goaltending has been crap with Markstrom and Nilsen? A top quality goaltender will absolutely make any team better. And crappy goaltending makes teams appear worse than they are.

Markstrom was very solid last year.

Nilsson was crap, yes.

This is pointless in any case as they won't cut a veteran and Demko will be in the AHL unless someone gets hurt.

 

[CanaFan]

Didn’t Rollie talk about how Markstrom learned improper techniques and had positional issues with his time in Florida? I remember him being critical of Markstrom’s training in Florida and how they had to undue a bunch of his bad habits that he was taught. That, along with his poor start and confidence issues, might distinguish him from Demko. Even watching Markstrom as a Canucks fan, it’s clear he has confidence issues with letting in weak goals early on in games. I don’t see confidence being an issue with Demko at this point.

Yet he put up equal or better numbers than Demko in the AHL so regardless of his technique it worked at the same level that Demko is proven at. Which is simply to illustrate that Demko is no slam dunk to step in as a rookie and “save” our team. Just as Connor Hellebuyck had similar Demko’s AHL numbers and still took a couple of years to adjust to the NHL.

It takes time to learn to be an NHL #1 and you’re expecting Demko to come in front of this tire fire defense and fix everything??

 

[Fatass]

Makes sense, if JB wants another top pick to stick with Markstrom and Nilsen, while keeping Demko on the farm. That’s likely why Hughes stayed in school too. He’d help us to the middle. Hughes plus Demko gets us way out of a top ten pick.

 

[Fatass]

Yet he put up equal or better numbers than Demko in the AHL so regardless of his technique it worked at the same level that Demko is proven at. Which is simply to illustrate that Demko is no slam dunk to step in as a rookie and “save” our team. Just as Connor Hellebuyck had similar Demko’s AHL numbers and still took a couple of years to adjust to the NHL.

It takes time to learn to be an NHL #1 and you’re expecting Demko to come in front of this tire fire defense and fix everything??

So Hellybuck plays better last season, and the Jets (with pretty much the same D) are better, but that same scenario doesn’t work with us? A goalie plays really well, like Hellybuck did last year, and his entire team benefits. (Although, I do agree we don’t have a D man like Big Buff.)

 

[RandV]

You don’t think our goaltending has been crap with Markstrom and Nilsen? A top quality goaltender will absolutely make any team better. And crappy goaltending makes teams appear worse than they are.

If you want to take a peak optimistic look at Demko and compare him to goalies that showed similar pedigree at the same age then you're looking at someone like Andrei Vasilevskiy, Matt Murray, Connor Hellebuyck, or John Gibson.

The Jets going from a roughly equal split between Pavelec/Hutchinson/Hellebuyck to just Hellebuyck as the starter, at what I believe would be the same age as Demko now, only gave them a 9 point increase in the standings. And they also added Patrik Laine that season.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Yet he put up equal or better numbers than Demko in the AHL so regardless of his technique it worked at the same level that Demko is proven at. Which is simply to illustrate that Demko is no slam dunk to step in as a rookie and “save” our team. Just as Connor Hellebuyck had similar Demko’s AHL numbers and still took a couple of years to adjust to the NHL.

It takes time to learn to be an NHL #1 and you’re expecting Demko to come in front of this tire fire defense and fix everything??

I’m not expecting that, no.
I’m pointing out the differences in transitioning to the NHL for Markstrom/Demko. Markstrom appears to have been mishandled when he was starting out in the NHL.

 

[VanJack]

Nilsson only has one year left on his deal, so although $2.5m a season is a bit rich for a backup, Canucks might find somewhere to ship him if Demko is lights-out in training camp.

Canucks are knee-deep in goaltenders under the age of 30. Too bad goalies just don't garner much on the trade market.

 

[CanaFan]

I’m not expecting that, no.
I’m pointing out the differences in transitioning to the NHL for Markstrom/Demko. Markstrom appears to have been mishandled when he was starting out in the NHL.

Maybe, but he’s not the only example out there. I’m just saying I’ll have tempered expectations for Demko and his immediate impact on the team.

 

[forty47seven]

I’m not expecting that, no.
I’m pointing out the differences in transitioning to the NHL for Markstrom/Demko. Markstrom appears to have been mishandled when he was starting out in the NHL.

Or Markstorm just isn't a starter at this level? The guys that end up being great transition in their D+5 seasons. It's a pivotal year for Demko. We're going to find out if he's a going to be a quality starter one day or not. He should play his way onto this roster if he truely has that potential. Will Demko be able single handedly pull this team out of the basement? Probably not but he should still get at least 25 games and look exceptional in at least half of them. Anything less and he gets downgraded as a prospect IMO.

 

[valkynax]

You don’t think our goaltending has been crap with Markstrom and Nilsen? A top quality goaltender will absolutely make any team better. And crappy goaltending makes teams appear worse than they are.

You're missing the point...how is having better goal tending gonna make this team's catastrophic forward and defense corps coming out with better result? Let alone "a LOT better".


That's like saying a Pontiac Aztek will perform like a Ferrari because it's gonna get a set of new tires and a paint job.

 

[Fatass]

You're missing the point...how is having better goal tending gonna make this team's catastrophic forward and defense corps coming out with better result? Let alone "a LOT better".


That's like saying a Pontiac Aztek will perform like a Ferrari because it's gonna get a set of new tires and a paint job.

You’re not accepting, though, the premise that better goaltending (like what Hellybuck did for the Jets last season) makes the team better.

 

[valkynax]

You’re not accepting, though, the premise that better goaltending (like what Hellybuck did for the Jets last season) makes the team better.

Are you f***ing kidding me...you're comparing our situation to the Jets? JETS?????

Better goalie will make a team better, sure. But when the forward group and defense are both horse manure, even if we had prime time Brodeur it wouldn't do a damn thing.

Hellybuck played well, yeah. Do you know what else Jets had? Ehlers, Wheeler, Laine, Scheifele, Connor, Trouba, Myers, Byfuglien.

And a GM who's not a brain dead gibbering lunatic.

 

[RandV]

You’re not accepting, though, the premise that better goaltending (like what Hellybuck did for the Jets last season) makes the team better.

I just pointed this out above. Hellebuyck is 2.5 years older than Demko, and each year at the same stage of his career he put up numbers matching or succeeding Demko. Last year was Helleybuck 6th season from his draft, he already had a 26 and 56 GP seasons under his belt, and he finished as the runner-up for the Vezina trophy. So you're counting on Demko being able to do the same in his 5th season after being drafted with only a single NHL game under his belt, and with a vastly inferior team in front of him.

Your premise doesn't really count when you're placing comparatively unrealistic expectations on a young unproven goalie here.