2018 Management Discussion, Pt. III - Now with Less Trevor and More Mutiny

[valkynax]

I think you May have a point if you anticipate Demco will not be very good but in general a good goalie is huge I mean think about it they are on the ice for 60 minutes per game that’s three times more than the best forward on the team so it’s fair to say they have thrice the impact so wouldn’t you say that your team would get better if you had added three all star level forwards? The idea that we are getting from the scouting projection community is that Demko will be an all star goaltender.

Alexandre Daigle was considered generational talent.

You're projecting prospects way ahead of the reveal on NHL ice. No one can say that this player will 100% be a future HoFer, before said player even touches NHL ice.

And no, categorizing a player's importance by minutes on ice is not a solid argument.

 

[CanaFan]

Think back to Louie’s first year I shouldn’t have to remind you guys how a goalie can will a team into the playoffs that has no business being there

Entirely different team bro. That team still had two 80 pt Sedins, some secondary scoring, and a pretty decent defense (Mitchell, Ohlund, Salo, young Bieksa). That team would spank the one we’ll be icing for the next year or two regardless of goaltending.

 

[CanaFan]

However I have already made the argument that with the improvements made and the drafted players that we have drafted making the team the forward and defensive group will be absolutely playoff calibre

Someday? Absolutely.

In the upcoming season? Not even close and I can’t believe you’re even suggesting it.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Some interesting comments here. I won't miss Linden since I never understood the public's love affair with him to begin with. I think Benning is here for at least the next 2 years. Whether you agree with his performance or not there's no disputing they have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL and he will be able to ride that until the Aquilini's get fed up after missing the playoffs when they expect to and that could be as soon as after 2019/20. Not even going to vote on selling the team but not a fan of ownership.

 

[I in the Eye]

I mean, eventually they will be right. And then they will act like master soothsayers after predicting it 9 years in a row.

... and we're going on year 5 for predictions on Benning now. Many here (including me) predicted playoffs 2014-15, 2015-16 bottom feeder, 2016-17 bottom feeder, 2017-18 bottom feeder... I'm (and some others here) now predicting 2018-19 spectacular bottom feeder. 4 in a row correct... after next season, 5 years in a row correct predictions... One of these years I (and most others here) will be wrong, and I imagine some will want to cook crow. It's all about reading the signs. When the team is ready to make the playoffs, I think most here will have a pulse on when it's a realistic possibility. Predicting that a poorly assembled team will perform poorly is easy. When this is a playoff caliber assembled team, I think most here will be able to read the signs.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Alexandre Daigle was considered generational talent.

You're projecting prospects way ahead of the reveal on NHL ice. No one can say that this player will 100% be a future HoFer, before said player even touches NHL ice.

And no, categorizing a player's importance by minutes on ice is not a solid argument.

Yes it does. Daigle was a fluke who proves nothing.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Someday? Absolutely.

In the upcoming season? Not even close and I can’t believe you’re even suggesting it.

It’s pretty reasonable considering they have been in the hunt before bad injury luck hit them for all of the last 3 years in a row

 

[CanaFan]

Yes it does. Daigle was a fluke who proves nothing.

And maybe Demko will be too. The point is very few players step in as rookies and completely turn around a franchise. Hell even McDavid’s struggling to do so in Edmonton and they’ve got a better roster to work with than we do right now plus Demko ain’t even in the ballpark of McDavid.

 

[valkynax]

Yes it does. Daigle was a fluke who proves nothing.

Right, when shit doesn't work out, it's a fluke.

When Dim Jim makes a shit draft, it's a fluke.

When this team becomes bottom feeding sea worm, it's a fluke.

When Dim Jim got fined for talking out of his ass, it's a fluke.

When OJ can't make the team two years in a row while Tkachuk playing 2 seasons with ~50 points, it's too early to judge.

When EP and QH just got drafted, they are not too early to be declared as Gretzky and Orr.

Keep up with the double standards, this is gold.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

For all the times I see the prospect pool being hyped to the moon and back, the more amazed I get that some people just can't learn the very basic lesson the Oilers have been teaching the NHL for the last decade.

You just can't draft your way out of incompetence.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Right, when **** doesn't work out, it's a fluke.

When Dim Jim makes a **** draft, it's a fluke.

When this team becomes bottom feeding sea worm, it's a fluke.

When Dim Jim got fined for talking out of his ass, it's a fluke.

When OJ can't make the team two years in a row while Tkachuk playing 2 seasons with ~50 points, it's too early to judge.

When EP and QH just got drafted, they are not too early to be declared as Gretzky and Orr.

Keep up with the double standards, this is gold.

OJ is just fine. Why do people look at where a kid is drafted and throw away any and all other information that would inform a reasonable expectation? He needed to get stronger. It was going to take time. He was the best player on the ice in a playoff series in Liiga, that’s a great sign for a 19 year old. Period.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Right, when **** doesn't work out, it's a fluke.

When Dim Jim makes a **** draft, it's a fluke.

When this team becomes bottom feeding sea worm, it's a fluke.

When Dim Jim got fined for talking out of his ass, it's a fluke.

When OJ can't make the team two years in a row while Tkachuk playing 2 seasons with ~50 points, it's too early to judge.

When EP and QH just got drafted, they are not too early to be declared as Gretzky and Orr.

Keep up with the double standards, this is gold.

I’m sticking to one topic per post. I’d much rather have an honest GM like Jim Benning who makes an honest mistake like mentioning a trade target than a dishonest GM like Bergevin who told lies to his franchise defense man PK Subban. The fine was a slap on the wrist but to see you blow it out of proportion like it’s some fireable offense is amusing.

 

[valkynax]

I’m sticking to one topic per post. I’d much rather have an honest GM like Jim Benning who makes an honest mistake like mentioning a trade target than a dishonest GM like Bergevin who told lies to his franchise defense man PK Subban. The fine was a slap on the wrist but to see you blow it out of proportion like it’s some fireable offense is amusing.

if that was the only thing Dim Jim did, sure, no one will bat an eye, we all gonna have a brief laugh about it and that's it.

of course this is merely a pebble on a mt. Everest of failures.

as for OJ, if he's still the wait and see kind, you can't declare EP and QH as shining beacons of success for Dim Jim's drafts.

and draft position should be taken into account - if a 7th rounder becomes a 3rd liner, it's a great success. If a 7th overall becomes a 3rd liner, it's a bust. Especially if the 8th overall picked by another team becomes a 50 pt top line player.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Thatcher only needs to be 1/3rd as good as McDavid to have the same impact because he is on for 60 minutes a game versus 20.

Besides McDavid was entering in a very different situation then Thatcher.

A line with Brandon Sutter and two defensively responsible wingers like Gaunce and Granlund shut down any line in the league.

A line with Bo and Brock and another good offence of player may be Peterson can put the puck in the net against any NHL defence I am confidence to say that.

There is a lot of good depth that is he also young and ready to take a next step forward like Stecher, Hutton, Gudbranson, Pouliot on defense and Dahlen, Gaudette, Virtanen,

I am also confident that a top pairing with Chris Tanev Will be successful especially if they go with the proven formula of him with Edler.

And there a good mentors Like Beagle and Roussell and Del Zotto who can play and contribute positively.

So to summarize we have a good top line, good shutdown line, good forward depth, good veteran mentors, an average defense (good defensively & bad offensively)

Put that together with stellar goaltending and no big injuries and that’s a safe playoff team

NHL.com - Stats

The Canucks have allowed the 4th most goals in the last 3 years. Our only top 4 defencemen are injury prone and be starting to decline soon. So I would count on the Canucks staying healthy. The Canucks do not have enough offence to overcome this tire fire of a defence. For the Canucks to make the playoffs this year Boeser and Pettersson need to be top 10 scorers and a goalie to be a Vezina nominee.

Do you have proof Roussel is a good mentor? And as far as Del Zotto...

[MOD]

 

[CanaFan]

OJ is just fine. Why do people look at where a kid is drafted and throw away any and all other information that would inform a reasonable expectation? He needed to get stronger. It was going to take time. He was the best player on the ice in a playoff series in Liiga, that’s a great sign for a 19 year old. Period.

Except when players his exact age and younger are excelling in the NHL while he’s doing it in a league 1/2 as difficult.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Except we had that exact team last year and missed the playoffs by 20 points. Then take Sedins and Vanek off the roster before putting Pettersson on.

Do you actually think a rookie goalie can come in and be *that* much better than Markstrom as to make up 20 points? Markstrom put up a .912 sv%, what do you expect Demko to put up? .920? .930?

What do you expect a goalie who put up .927 in the AHL to do as a rookie in the NHL? Do you think he can possibly have a bigger impact that a 100+ pt McDavid? Seriously??

Plays three times as much. It's simple math.

 

[CanaFan]

Plays three times as much. It's simple math.

Something is simple here, no doubt.

What do you think we could get for Demko? Probably both McDavid and Draisaitl at least, right? Since they still only play 2/3 as much as a goalie, that’s still a steal for Edmonton.

 

[geebaan]

However I have already made the argument that with the improvements made and the drafted players that we have drafted making the team the forward and defensive group will be absolutely playoff calibre

like, by this coming season? Cause I'll take that wager.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Something is simple here, no doubt.

What do you think we could get for Demko? Probably both McDavid and Draisaitl at least, right? Since they still only play 2/3 as much as a goalie, that’s still a steal for Edmonton.

You think we could get them to play for one third the salary too?

You've convinced me; count me in!

 

[Intangibos]

For all the times I see the prospect pool being hyped to the moon and back, the more amazed I get that some people just can't learn the very basic lesson the Oilers have been teaching the NHL for the last decade.

You just can't draft your way out of incompetence.

As much as I think our prospect pool is somewhat overrated, the Oilers aren't a good example. Check out their draft picks outside the 1st round since 2007. Although they drafted guys like Hall, that's pretty much all they drafted. Their only two noteworthy picks outside of the 1st round are Riley Nash and Tobias Rieder.

 

[Pip]

To be fair, our picks outside of the first round haven’t proven anything

 

[Jay Cee]

I don’t think you can draft your way out of incompetence, but the Oilers didn’t show that. They sucked at drafting.

 

[Jack Burton]

I don’t think you can draft your way out of incompetence, but the Oilers didn’t show that. They sucked at drafting.

 

[valkynax]

I don’t think you can draft your way out of incompetence, but the Oilers didn’t show that. They sucked at drafting.

Heh, true enough.

Remember the trades that basically costed them Barzal, Hall, and Eberle?

 

[Jay Cee]

Heh, true enough.

Remember the trades that basically costed them Barzal, Hall, and Eberle?

No kidding. Oh well, even though this new management group seems no better than the last, they have McDavid. Superstars usually win a cup some day.