2018 Hart Trophy Winner - Taylor Hall

[Satans Hockey]

He had 93 points for a team that scored 248 goals.

The NHL website stinks lol I've seen 248 and 243 on different areas of the website and it's 248 on hockey DB and 243 on hockey reference. Not that it makes a difference it's just typical NHL lol

 

[NjDevsRR]

Hall did this with torn ligaments in his wrist for the last half of the year and did not have the quality of linemates that Mac had.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

I get McDavid was a beast this season but if he really deserved it, wouldn’t he at least be top 3 in voting? Remember the Hart goes to the "player judged most valuable to his team”, not necessarily the best player in the league. That is more the Lindsay which McDavid rightfully won. As bad as the oilers were McDavid at least had Drai on his team. Hall has no one on his support near Drai level, though the Devils do have better depth than the Oilers.

That is why I brought up that the voting criteria is stupid. The player most valuable to your team makes it way too subjective, and the Hart is the trophy that holds the most stature of the individual awards and players get judged by that in terms of greatness, not the Lindsay.

I also put very little stock into the opinions of the PHWA as evaluators so the results of the voting don't really prove anything to me.

Don't get me wrong, Hall is great and had one of the best seasons of anyone in the league, I just think it was clear McDavid had the most value even if his team sucked huge monkey balls.

 

[These Are The Days]

Naw ignore those Hall is a Cancer posts. There’s nothing of substance in those.

Guy deserves the Hart. Miss him in Edmonton, but still follow the guy.

There's no substance when he's actually a Scorpio

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

well that's the key...plus better puck-moving defensemen

bringing in Butcher, the #1 overall Hischier, Bratt and Vatanen made Hall go from a 53 point player to a 93 point player

False Cause Fallacy { Philosophy Index }

They were certainly factors but Hall was 93 point player this year because he was a 93 point player. 3 rookies (albeit good ones) and one good defensmen did not lead him to carry the team. He would have been ~ a 93 point player on any team in the league.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I get McDavid was a beast this season but if he really deserved it, wouldn’t he at least be top 3 in voting? Remember the Hart goes to the "player judged most valuable to his team”, not necessarily the best player in the league. That is more the Lindsay which McDavid rightfully won. As bad as the oilers were McDavid at least had Drai on his team. Hall has no one on his support near Drai level, though the Devils do have better depth than the Oilers.

As much as I think McDavid should have been top 3 in voting, and yes, have won it, I do believe Hall was more than deserving of the award. He had a phenomenal season.

But more than ever, this season exposed the flaw for the criteria for this award. Almost everyone will point to the fact that your team should make the playoffs to be truly in the conversation of the award. So let's say the Devils sputtered down the stretch and missed the playoffs the last week? Does Hall's incredible season get thrown the drain and no consideration because the Devils were on the other end of the playoff line (same argument applies to MacK)? I think it'd be crazy to suggest that.

Furthermore, looking at the voting breakdown, I'm quite shocked at the results not only for McDavid, but Kucherov and Malkin as well. Kucherov not getting a single 1st place vote seems almost criminal (yet William freakin' Karlsson got one).

 

[Kranix]

The Hart is nice but the Oilers have a little thing called team defense courtesy of Adam Larsson.

 

[MadDevil]

I think Hall did more with less than MacKinnon or Kopitar, but I wouldn't have had a problem with either of them winning it either.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

False Cause Fallacy { Philosophy Index }

They were certainly factors but Hall was 93 point player this year because he was a 93 point player. 3 rookies (albeit good ones) and one good defensmen did not lead him to carry the team. He would have been ~ a 93 point player on any team in the league.

but he wasn't in 2016-17...why not?

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

but he wasn't in 2016-17...why not?

Transition to a new system (it is a lot for some players to adjust to a new system, coach, lockerroom, city, etc) combined with possibly nagging injury.

This year though he looked like a beast regardless of who he played with. You can see it by the fact the next highest scorer on the Devils, Nico, has 52 points.

 

[Its a Trap]

The Hart is nice but the Oilers have a little thing called team defense courtesy of Adam Larsson.

mm, yes 5th most goals against in the league. I'd agree, there is very little of it.

 

[Kranix]

mm, yes 5th most goals against in the league. I'd agree, there is very little of it.

Excuse me, have you keyed in on what Larsson brings to the Oilers? It's what they were sorely lacking, and what they addressed by trading Taylor Hart Trophy.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Transition to a new system (it is a lot for some players to adjust to a new system, coach, lockerroom, city, etc) combined with possibly nagging injury.

didn't he have wrist surgery this year? he played with injury this year

This year though he looked like a beast regardless of who he played with. You can see it by the fact the next highest scorer on the Devils, Nico, has 52 points.

Nico wasn't on the team last year...thats 52 extra points...neither was Butcher, or Bratt
that's a lot of extra help he never had last year

 

[Laineux]

Who was that guy who promised to eat a hat full of shit and post a video here if Hall wins the Hart?

 

[Emperoreddy]

The reason it's a weaker Hart year is how often this trophy needs to be redefined and re-described.

It is now the 'MVP' on a 'lower seeded playoff team with no other stars' Award.

Nope. Award has been defined this way since day one. If your team doesn’t make the playoffs, you don’t win the Hart outside of very rare circumstances.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

False Cause Fallacy { Philosophy Index }

They were certainly factors but Hall was 93 point player this year because he was a 93 point player. 3 rookies (albeit good ones) and one good defensmen did not lead him to carry the team. He would have been ~ a 93 point player on any team in the league.

Cites a fallacy
Proceeds to use circular reasoning. You also asked a loaded question in your previous post.
If you are going to cite fallacies, you shouldn't commit any. And I'm not trying to be a dick; it's hard not to commit fallacies, but if you are calling someone on it, you better make sure you are squeaky clean.

 

[Its a Trap]

didn't he have wrist surgery this year? he played with injury this year


Nico wasn't on the team last year...thats 52 extra points...neither was Butcher, or Bratt
that's a lot of extra help he never had last year

No, it’s 12 extra points or 7 extra points depending on if your argument says he played with Henrique or Zajac. And pretty funny using Bratt as a reason, considering he had all of 5 points after January and was relegated down the lineup.

 

[PWiz30]

I won’t deny his natural athleticism or ability to post points, but Taylor hall does not elevate the players around him.

Yeah, those teenage linemates of his had really disappointing seasons. /s

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Who was that guy who promised to eat a hat full of **** and post a video here if Hall wins the Hart?

fantomas. Lol

 

[blood gin]

Hall over MacKinnon? Interesting.

Also, LOL at Chiarelli.

It was close. But he deserved it over MacKinning

 

[Coffey]

fantomas. Lol

@Fantomas

Vid pls

 

[blood gin]

He has some of the worst hockey sense of top six forwards in the league, but an extremely high level of athleticism.

He’s been doing the same stuff for nearly ten years now. Screaming down the wing and looking for a cut post blue line to the net. If he doesn’t have that he either makes a terrible drop/float pass or throws it on net.

I won’t deny his natural athleticism or ability to post points, but Taylor hall does not elevate the players around him.

Doesn't seem you've watched much Taylor Hall at all.

 

[My3Sons]

Most Oilers fans aren't defending it. Most Oilers fans accepted that a culture change was needed and it was reasonable for Hall to go, but also understand that Chia didn't get the value he should have for Hall.

Maybe yes maybe no. Hall's attitude at the time and whatever off ice antics earned him his reputation would have been well known in league management circles. He was probably seen as a coach killer type of player (one that oozes talent but always finds a way to lose often times through selfish or stupid play) similar to Evander Kane. There may have been a number of teams that passed on having him in their locker room. It's easy with 20/20 hindsight to say the trade was the worst of the era but realistically, EDM made the playoffs last year while NJ was struggling. Plenty of EDM fans were happy with the early returns and top that off with the contracts signed by McDavid and Draisaitl and did EDM also want to pay Hall about $10 mil on top of that? Did anyone really want to at that time? Yes, the trade was exactly what NJ needed but don't let that distract you from what EDM is building. With or without Hall they are building a special team up there. It may take a bit more maturity from McDavid and Drai but they will learn how to win and the night in night out commitment it takes as will the other young players and then watch out western conference.

 

[Bank Shot]

Haha narrative? Hall outscored the next closest Devil by 41 points.

Giroux played with a healthy combination of Couturier, Voracek, Konecny, Ghost, and Provorov .

Hall played with Hischier, Palmieri, Bratt, Vatanen, and in, Andy Greene. Yet, they still had similar ppg. Give me a break

By that logic Pavol Demitra should have won the 02/03 Hart Trophy over Forsberg.

NHL Award writers very much vote for players based on interesting story lines rather than other considerations.

This is the same group that had someone vote for Hall as end of season 1st team center.

Good for Hall for getting a trophy, but he won because he has the strongest narrative.

 

[ManofSteel55]

By that logic Pavol Demitra should have won the 02/03 Hart Trophy over Forsberg.

NHL Award writers very much vote for players based on interesting story lines rather than other considerations.

This is the same group that had someone vote for Hall as end of season 1st team center.

Good for Hall for getting a trophy, but he won because he has the strongest narrative.

This. Not to say that his season wasn't ridiculously impressive, but people will view this as the wrong choice eventually. I'm happy that Hall has become the player he was drafted to be though. I'm just frustrated that he needed to be traded and still fail in a new organization for a year (in making the playoffs anyway) before realizing that he had to make some changes in his game (and perspective, if rumours are to be believed). Seems like he matured a lot as a player and as a person after being traded.