GDT: 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs

[biturbo19]

I agree with your points generally, but I don't think Sutter and Beagle are similar players. They are completely different. What the Beagle signing does do is shore up the middle and give the team depth.

Like I said, if this means (like Benning said) that our skilled prospects would be placed in an offensive role then I am all for it. Of course, maybe it means that Sutter would have more offensive opportunities. The way Green used Sutter was Malhotra like.

Like most here, like the player, don't like the money and term.

The thing is, i've been a big defender of the Brandon Sutter trade and even the contract to some extent, because i can see some real value in it. Specifically because i recognized that sooner or later, we were going to be where we are right now. In need of a Sutter who can eat tons of unpleasant minutes and play with scrubs and just keep on chugging.

But to realize that value...that "Malhotra-esque" deployment is exactly what you want to do with him. As he showed again last year...he's remarkably immune to quality of opportunity. He's going to score ~15G+ pace, and ~30pts...pretty much no matter what sort of trash minutes and linemates you give him. It's honestly a pretty special and valuable skillset...if used correctly.

The idea of trying to get him back into more offensive minutes just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. He's shown pretty clearly that in the same way lame duck linemates and poor zone starts don't hinder him...great zone starts and creative linemates don't help him at all either. And if anything...he's apt to hold highly skilled linemates back.


I mean, i guess it's possible that they think they're going to eat up nearly all DZone starts between the Sutter and Beagle lines, but it still begs the question...who is going to be that pseudo #2C who plays the offensive minutes other than Bo? With Beagle, they went for a defensive specialist rather than an "all around" sort of guy who could potentially play some offensive minutes. And they paid a huge premium for that specialist, in a specialty they already have nailed down with Sutter...who is a better player in every facet than Beagle, in the same role.

 

[Verviticus]

I don’t know what that last part means but I remember reading the police report when it came out and I remember it being really bad but I also read the new statement from the wife herself that made the whole thing seem not as bad after all so maybe we should just giving him the benefit of the doubt here? He did not assault You or me or anyone of us, the person who he did assault has forgiven and moved on and I think that counts for something.

it doesnt count for shit, no. tbh you should probably try to avoid defending him. hes garbage.

 

[Melvin]

Why isn't anyone signing Luca Sbisa?

 

[Melvin]

The thing is, i've been a big defender of the Brandon Sutter trade and even the contract to some extent, because i can see some real value in it. Specifically because i recognized that sooner or later, we were going to be where we are right now. In need of a Sutter who can eat tons of unpleasant minutes and play with scrubs and just keep on chugging.

But to realize that value...that "Malhotra-esque" deployment is exactly what you want to do with him. As he showed again last year...he's remarkably immune to quality of opportunity. He's going to score ~15G+ pace, and ~30pts...pretty much no matter what sort of trash minutes and linemates you give him. It's honestly a pretty special and valuable skillset...if used correctly.

The idea of trying to get him back into more offensive minutes just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. He's shown pretty clearly that in the same way lame duck linemates and poor zone starts don't hinder him...great zone starts and creative linemates don't help him at all either. And if anything...he's apt to hold highly skilled linemates back.


I mean, i guess it's possible that they think they're going to eat up nearly all DZone starts between the Sutter and Beagle lines, but it still begs the question...who is going to be that pseudo #2C who plays the offensive minutes other than Bo? With Beagle, they went for a defensive specialist rather than an "all around" sort of guy who could potentially play some offensive minutes. And they paid a huge premium for that specialist, in a specialty they already have nailed down with Sutter...who is a better player in every facet than Beagle, in the same role.

This is all pretty well said. Sutter is immune to low quality of opportunity because he is an incredibly one dimensional offensive player who essebtislly skates with blinders and doesn't mind having trash linemates because he doesn't know how to use them anyway.

I have a feeling we will see Sutter back on PP 1 to start next season. Misery.

 

[biturbo19]

This is all pretty well said. Sutter is immune to low quality of opportunity because he is an incredibly one dimensional offensive player who essebtislly skates with blinders and doesn't mind having trash linemates because he doesn't know how to use them anyway.

I have a feeling we will see Sutter back on PP 1 to start next season. Misery.

Exactly. Sutter thrives offensively on odd man rushes, broken plays and the like. That's where his skating, range, and reach come together with a solid general positional sense to create opportunities he can capitalize on. And he's really good at it. He's kind of like a Center version of Grabner, with better defensive positional sense instead of the elite rocket speed.

What he doesn't thrive on, is elaborate, creative, longer-developing sustained puck-possession type plays. The type of plays that our skilled young players and prospects build their game around. It's just not a fit.

Jay Beagle is the same, only slower than Sutter, and less skilled in capitalizing on those opportunities when they arise.

 

[F A N]

The thing is, i've been a big defender of the Brandon Sutter trade and even the contract to some extent, because i can see some real value in it. Specifically because i recognized that sooner or later, we were going to be where we are right now. In need of a Sutter who can eat tons of unpleasant minutes and play with scrubs and just keep on chugging.

But to realize that value...that "Malhotra-esque" deployment is exactly what you want to do with him. As he showed again last year...he's remarkably immune to quality of opportunity. He's going to score ~15G+ pace, and ~30pts...pretty much no matter what sort of trash minutes and linemates you give him. It's honestly a pretty special and valuable skillset...if used correctly.

The idea of trying to get him back into more offensive minutes just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. He's shown pretty clearly that in the same way lame duck linemates and poor zone starts don't hinder him...great zone starts and creative linemates don't help him at all either. And if anything...he's apt to hold highly skilled linemates back.

I share your views, but the way that Green utilized Sutter meant that the rest of his line was used that way (e.g. Granlund) and they were used as in a 3rd line capacity rather than 4th line. Sutter's line is hardly made from guys who are adept at that role. If Green can be comfortable utilizing his 4th line in a way that takes away some of the defensive load from Sutter's line that does free up Sutter's line from more offense. I'm not saying that Sutter makes his linemates better offensively, but guys like Goldobin did play well with Sutter. He's a C that doesn't need the puck which could work well with wingers who are better with the puck.

 

[biturbo19]

I share your views, but the way that Green utilized Sutter meant that the rest of his line was used that way (e.g. Granlund) and they were used as in a 3rd line capacity rather than 4th line. Sutter's line is hardly made from guys who are adept at that role. If Green can be comfortable utilizing his 4th line in a way that takes away some of the defensive load from Sutter's line that does free up Sutter's line from more offense. I'm not saying that Sutter makes his linemates better offensively, but guys like Goldobin did play well with Sutter. He's a C that doesn't need the puck which could work well with wingers who are better with the puck.

Why not just move those linemates onto a different line with better offensive opportunities though? Instead of bringing in another Sutter for the "4th line"...where you now have another line (half your lines) anchored by a guy who doesn't really facilitate any offense for his wingers?

 

[Pip]

Why isn't anyone signing Luca Sbisa?

Clearly if he was any good than a GM would have signed him by now right?

 

[me2]

Clearly if he was any good than a GM would have signed him by now right?

He's the kind of player that I talked about that often overplays their hand in FA. Playing a bit hard to get then finding all the teams have spent their cap and desperate for anything they can get in August/September

 

[me2]

I am disappointed we didn't go back to Vancouver this year, he can't defend but he'd be handy for helping the offensive prospects. A 1 year deal too.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Sbisa would make sense

It would be a horrible signing
Overpay
No room
Not worth the roster spot
Block the youth

Yup Sbisa would make sense

 

[Dissonance Jr]

Also anybody see his press conference yesterday? When asked about the Beagle deal and the term Benning stated that when they met Beagle in person Beagle alluded to how good he felt last year and that hes never felt better in his career. It was one of the reasons why they felt Beagle could maintain his level of play for the next 4 years.

I stopped watching after I herd that. Just absolutely mind boggling rational. What do you expect Beagle to say you idiot hes a FA looking for the biggest payday in his career.

Benning said the exact same delusional things about Loui Eriksson in 2015, talking about how he didn't expect the 30-year-old Eriksson's play to decline because "he always keeps himself in great shape, he looks after himself" — as if this were somehow a rarity among NHL players.

But sure, our GM is "learning."

 

[Peter10]

Nobody does it because it's idiotic. Would that be a better descriptor?

Dinosaur NHL execs believe that supporting youth with grit+less skill is better than supporting youth with more skill. They think it's better to add to culture and training practices than actually pushing play on the ice. This is why they chase and overpay role players like Sutter. And now, Beagle and Roussel.

Linden has a picture in his mind of a team that Quinn (RIP) taught him to build. And he's doing his level best to re-create it. Not understanding that the game has changed, and that this prehistoric understanding of how to build a team is no longer relevant or applicable.

 

[racerjoe]

Clearly if he was any good than a GM would have signed him by now right?

He is the ultimate protection for expansion drafts. That way we can keep core players like Beagle.

 

[BerSTUzzi]

The only Upper Management group in sports that can only think moment to moment instead of, at worst, season to season. Insanity.

I would have been fine with Roussel because he can at least play hockey and most likely will be fine for 3 of the 4 years, in terms of quality of player not dollar value of player.

 

[Pavel96]

Another July 1st, another round of articles written by non local media questioning the always absurd moves. Here's the latest from that guy that cares too much about numbers bla bla bla:

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/canucks-take-a-curious-approach-to-free-agency-1.1129744

 

[Hit the post]

I would have been fine with Roussel because he can at least play hockey and most likely will be fine for 3 of the 4 years, in terms of quality of player not dollar value of player.

Who on the team will be finishing the fights that he instigates? This isn't to say he never 'drops the gloves' but he's pretty much a spot picker.

 

[timw33]

I don’t know what that last part means but I remember reading the police report when it came out and I remember it being really bad but I also read the new statement from the wife herself that made the whole thing seem not as bad after all so maybe we should just giving him the benefit of the doubt here? He did not assault You or me or anyone of us, the person who he did assault has forgiven and moved on and I think that counts for something.

Abusive men should not be role models and be given a pass because they can provide entertainment value. Period.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

I don’t know what that last part means but I remember reading the police report when it came out and I remember it being really bad but I also read the new statement from the wife herself that made the whole thing seem not as bad after all so maybe we should just giving him the benefit of the doubt here? He did not assault You or me or anyone of us, the person who he did assault has forgiven and moved on and I think that counts for something.

nope

anyway it doesn't matter. He'll sign for a team with no fans or media so he never has to talk about it.

 

[TeddyBare]

LOL
Front page & Main heading of TSN.com

as no one on the planet understands why the hell these guys got term

 

[Winland]

This is really sad.. I simply cannot understand these signings.. Benning could actually be mental.

Comets will be interesting this year though.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Who on the team will be finishing the fights that he instigates? This isn't to say he never 'drops the gloves' but he's pretty much a spot picker.

Agreed,he usually spot picks the other teams rookies....but he is a pretty decent fighter though.

 

[xtra]

LOL
Front page & Main heading of TSN.com

as no one on the planet understands why the hell these guys got term

It won’t matter until the local media gets in on it. There are so many dumb fans in our city that they think all our prospects are superstars, I have one friend who legit thinks Hughes is gonna come in and replace the twins offense (50points) this year.

They drink the cool aid that the local media is spitting out in full, and a few posters on here do as well.

 

[Cupless44]

Another July 1st, another round of articles written by non local media questioning the always absurd moves. Here's the latest from that guy that cares too much about numbers bla bla bla:

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/canucks-take-a-curious-approach-to-free-agency-1.1129744

I read this article and it is bang on.

"The offset is you now have two guys in front of younger players who will likely soak up minutes for a non-contending Vancouver team for a few years now. More problematically, neither is really getting results at this point in their career"

"Beagle’s contract already looks like dead money. I know Vancouver is going to value what he can bring to the table off of the ice, but it’s impossible to square that with a guy who simply isn’t getting any results at this point in his career. Doubly so when you consider that he’s barring at least one Vancouver skater from entering the lineup"


Universal condemnation of these ridiculous signings

 

[Cupless44]

This is really sad.. I simply cannot understand these signings.. Benning could actually be mental.

Comets will be interesting this year though.

Of all the really bad, incompetent moves Jim Benning has made. These signings might be the very worst when you consider where the team is now is a clear rebuild.