World Cup: 2018 FIFA World Cup Draw (10am ET on 12/1/17, FS1, TSN, etc.)

[cgf]

Fair point; but I still think Sweden is much more likely to take a point off of germany than is Mexico. If that happens, and if the swedes can hold the mexicans to a draw in their head to head match (not unreasonable either with their physical advantage & defensive organization); they'd be in a great spot to get that 2nd spot in the group ahead of Mexico & South Korea...who seem to be getting dismissed far too quickly in this conversation and are just as good as Sweden or Mexico.

 

[Live in the Now]

Fair point; but I still think Sweden is much more likely to take a point off of germany than is Mexico. If that happens, and if the swedes can hold the mexicans to a draw in their head to head match (not unreasonable either with their physical advantage & defensive organization); they'd be in a great spot to get that 2nd spot in the group ahead of Mexico & South Korea...who seem to be getting dismissed far too quickly in this conversation and are just as good as Sweden or Mexico.

South Korea is in horrendous form right now. Two wins all year, one a qualifier against Syria and another a friendly against Colombia. They played China, Colombia, Syria, Qatar, Russia, Iran, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Iraq, and Serbia this year. I wouldn't automatically write them off, but I don't see it right now. A lot of their big talents didn't develop as expected.

 

[Eternalize]

are we gonna ignore that everyone complained about Italy's roster against Sweden?(weather injuries, suspensions or **** choices from the coach?)
im not taking anything awy from Sweden, but Mexico is not your crappy concacaf team that cant play against Europe. they do it every 4 years.

How are suspensions even relevant here? What injuries? Seriously you're a sore loser if you're gonna complain about any of those things, especially if you're Italy. Neither of those things were a problem for them, and you can say the exact same thing about Sweden. Sweden didn't have Ekdal who is one of their most important players, and they had to make early changes in the deciding game because of injuries on players that were playing in crucial positions on the pitch.

For whatever reason, people doesn't give Sweden any credit at all for eliminating Italy. The only reason they did advance, was because Italy were horrendous, apparently. Didn't have anything to do with the fact that Sweden actually defended very well and made it tough for Italy. Which, btw, is not how Sweden usually plays. Some people who watched those games seems to think that Sweden are just the Scandinavian Ireland, lol. Because that's the only time they've seen them play. I have been very impressed by how well Sweden have played at times in the qualifiers, Janne Andersson is really getting the most out of the team.

I never said that Mexico is an easy opponent. If anything, you made it out like Mexico would advance easily. Mexico are a good and entertaining team, but it's hardly a challenge for them to qualify for the tournaments. Never having to face an actual tough opponent ever in the qualifiers. But yes they have done well in previous tournaments. But i wouldn't be surprised at all if Sweden advances through at the expense of Mexico. And that's coming from someone who is quite a pessimistic fan.

When Sweden were drawn against Italy, the odds were obviously against them advancing, but i didn't think it was impossible if Sweden could play the way they played in the group stage qualifiers. The underdog role suits them very well, that's when they're at their best. And you obviously had to hope that Italy wouldn't play their best games. Because it's always going to be extremely hard to beat a world class team playing at their best, if you're a smaller less established football nation.

 

[cgf]

South Korea is in horrendous form right now. Two wins all year, one a qualifier against Syria and another a friendly against Colombia. They played China, Colombia, Syria, Qatar, Russia, Iran, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Iraq, and Serbia this year. I wouldn't automatically write them off, but I don't see it right now. A lot of their big talents didn't develop as expected.

I'm not very familiar with the particulars of their qualifying cycle, but where many of those games that they needed to win? Or did they pretty much have qualification well in hand the whole way? Perhaps leading them to just leave everything on cruise control; kinda how Mexico did in (I think) the last qualifying cycle...where they played like s*** almost the whole way before raising their level once the tourney dawned.

I don't necessarily disagree with South Korea's top talents not quite reaching the ceilings they had, but that's still a squad with the talent to do some things with the ball in this group if they can get themselves into gear by the time the tourney roles around. I can certainly see them struggling against the big & compactly organized swedes, but I'm lowkey expecting Mexico-South Korea to be a really fun match to watch.

 

[cgf]

How are suspensions even relevant here? What injuries? Seriously you're a sore loser if you're gonna complain about any of those things, especially if you're Italy. Neither of those things were a problem for them, and you can say the exact same thing about Sweden. Sweden didn't have Ekdal who is one of their most important players, and they had to make early changes in the deciding game because of injuries on players that were playing in crucial positions on the pitch.

For whatever reason, people doesn't give Sweden any credit at all for eliminating Italy. The only reason they did advance, was because Italy were horrendous, apparently. Didn't have anything to do with the fact that Sweden actually defended very well and made it tough for Italy. Which, btw, is not how Sweden usually plays. Some people who watched those games seems to think that Sweden are just the Scandinavian Ireland, lol. Because that's the only time they've seen them play. I have been very impressed by how well Sweden have played at times in the qualifiers, Janne Andersson is really getting the most out of the team.

I never said that Mexico is an easy opponent. If anything, you made it out like Mexico would advance easily. Mexico are a good and entertaining team, but it's hardly a challenge for them to qualify for the tournaments. Never having to face an actual tough opponent ever in the qualifiers. But yes they have done well in previous tournaments. But i wouldn't be surprised at all if Sweden advances through at the expense of Mexico. And that's coming from someone who is quite a pessimistic fan.

When Sweden were drawn against Italy, the odds were obviously against them advancing, but i didn't think it was impossible if Sweden could play the way they played in the group stage qualifiers. The underdog role suits them very well, that's when they're at their best. And you obviously had to hope that Italy wouldn't play their best games. Because it's always going to be extremely hard to beat a world class team playing at their best, if you're a smaller less established football nation.

It's not about not giving Sweden credit as much as it is about recognizing that a) italy is in a bit of a down period compared to their usual heights when it comes to the talent pool they have to select from and that b) the Italian coach was absolutely pathetic and many railed against him long before he failed to qualify for the WM. That was a truly dreadful cycle from a team who still have the talent to be right in that top darkhorse range with Portugal...even with the dip compared the usual italian NT.

And though the Swedes deserve full credit for capitalizing, the question of how badly Ventura botched things that entire cycle is more engaging & leads into more engaging conversations about what the italians need to do to right the ship and make use of all of the quality players they have in that 23-27 (ish) range.

 

[Disclose]

you completely missed the point if you think i am an italy fan.
you also completely missed the point where i said mexico vs sweden will probably determined who advances.
you also missed the point where i said if sweden beats germany, the whole game chances (in a bad way for mexico).

Sweden did what they have to do and fully deserve to be there. but you're the one understimating the other team because how they qualified or against who.

dont understand your frustration.... mexico gets it easier for sure in CONCACAF. but dont think its a given to go play in Costa Rica or Honduras or Panama..... not because they're great teams (they good), but because its a crazy hostile envirornment with bad fields, that its hard to get your groove on.

 

[Evilo]

Surprised to see so many people picking Brazil to beat France. France can certainly lose to many teams, but Brazil is not the pick in that matchup. History has shown France is the most likely to win, Brazil simply don't match up well with teams that are more physical and as technical.

 

[cgf]

Yeah, I get why people are favoring Brazil over Spain as the 3rd favorite team, though that is very debatable and Spain 2018 really is still a mystery in many ways; but Germany & France are on another level right now. Obviously upsets happen, as do unpredictable injuries & suspensions. But calling something like that this far in advance seems odd to me...

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'm putting my money on Spain.

 

[NyQuil]

As stated above, Mexico and South Korea are traditional World Cup finals teams but their relative form and competitiveness is far below the usual.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both out in the group stage.

Group F had the makings of a "Group of Death" perhaps if all four teams were playing at their historical peaks. As it stands, I'm not seeing it.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Sure, they just dominated Germany with mostly backups in Germany.
Meanwhile Croatia is supposed to look good...

OK.

You know very well that Germany had a pitch full of back-ups as well, and that a friendly between mostly starters means nothing in predicting a WC match 8 months later, let alone a friendly between mostly back-ups. France will be at their best and shouldn't be worrying much about Croatia, but the match against Germany (that they didn't actually "dominate") has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Evilo]

They totally dominated it, no way around it. And yes those backups show the depth. Injuries will happen before the WC and it's extremely important to have depth.

Yes it should tell Curtinho that when he says France hasn't been very good on the pitch rather than on paper, he's wrong.

France can lost against any good side and Croatia is one of them. But to say France hasn't been good on the pitch while ignoring Croatia has been much wrose is weird.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

They totally dominated it, no way around it. And yes those backups show the depth. Injuries will happen before the WC and it's extremely important to have depth.

Yes it should tell Curtinho that when he says France hasn't been very good on the pitch rather than on paper, he's wrong.

France can lost against any good side and Croatia is one of them. But to say France hasn't been good on the pitch while ignoring Croatia has been much wrose is weird.

Sure you can say that, but using a back-up laden friendly that you claim was dominated by France is not the way to do it, and losing credibility in the process.

 

[Eternalize]

you completely missed the point if you think i am an italy fan.
you also completely missed the point where i said mexico vs sweden will probably determined who advances.
you also missed the point where i said if sweden beats germany, the whole game chances (in a bad way for mexico).

Sweden did what they have to do and fully deserve to be there. but you're the one understimating the other team because how they qualified or against who.

dont understand your frustration.... mexico gets it easier for sure in CONCACAF. but dont think its a given to go play in Costa Rica or Honduras or Panama..... not because they're great teams (they good), but because its a crazy hostile envirornment with bad fields, that its hard to get your groove on.

Never said you were an Italy fan but all your excuses are just extremely bad. Like seriously? Only fair point you make is that they had a bad coach. And my comment regarding you underestimating Sweden is more based on your 1st comment rather than the one i was responding to. You questioned people who picked Sweden over Mexico.

Im not underestimating Mexico. But how can anyone in their right mind pump their tires after their qualification process? Is a 6-3-1 record outstanding or even impressive by their standards? It is what is obviously and they can't really do anything about where they're located in the world. As for hostile environments and bad football pitches, you really think everyone is welcoming and every pitch is top notch in Europe?

 

[Eternalize]

It's not about not giving Sweden credit as much as it is about recognizing that a) italy is in a bit of a down period compared to their usual heights when it comes to the talent pool they have to select from and that b) the Italian coach was absolutely pathetic and many railed against him long before he failed to qualify for the WM. That was a truly dreadful cycle from a team who still have the talent to be right in that top darkhorse range with Portugal...even with the dip compared the usual italian NT.

And though the Swedes deserve full credit for capitalizing, the question of how badly Ventura botched things that entire cycle is more engaging & leads into more engaging conversations about what the italians need to do to right the ship and make use of all of the quality players they have in that 23-27 (ish) range.

Of course Italy isn't at their best, which is why i said you had to hope that they wouldn't be at their best. Because if they would have been, it doesn't really matter if Sweden plays great or not. Italy is superior in every part of the pitch. And honestly, how is there anything wrong with Italys talent pool? Again, they possibly have the best defensive collective with guys like Bonucci, Chiellini and Barzagli. Buffon is world class and they all have experience of playing huge important games. Verratti is world class, Immobile has an amazing form and is the leading scorer in Serie A. There's so many more players that would be worth mentioning, this team on paper is absolutely LEVELS above the Italy that we saw in the Euros 2016. There's nothing to discuss at all here, Italy have a lot of good players and i wouldn't consider their team weak at all especially if handled properly.

Im aware that a lot of people questioned Ventura even before the playoffs. Him not playing Insigne for instance was astonishing. He's definitely at fault. Still, people are exaggerating how bad Italy actually was playing. Even if Ventura made all the right decisions in the playoffs, he still would have been questioned if Italy still didn't end up advancing to the World Cup. That's the way it goes. Because Italy should be at the World Cup based on team quality and tradition. They had not missed a World Cup in 60 years. People prefer slaughtering a great team or a guy after a failure rather than giving credit to the "semi-good" team that eliminated them. I bet a team like Iceland would have received a lot more praise than Sweden if they had advanced in a more flukey way by beating a big football nation. People love giving them endless praise just because they're a small country.

As for Portugal being a darkhorse in the World Cup, i'd say they have no chance at all to win it.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

There's always surprises at the group stage. Bantering about it is fun but not worth an argument over...especially with so much time before the 1st match. OTOH, every four years we consistently see one of the few tourney favorites ultimately win the Cup. It's enjoyable to witness but usually not a surprise. Safe to say we can expect Brazil, France, Germany, and maybe Spain to win. Flip a coin, shuffle them around, replay matches among them...who knows until they get their one chance on that one day to prove who's better. Argentina probably wins four matches out of ten against Germany in 2014, but they only allow one match.

 

[Evilo]

Sure you can say that, but using a back-up laden friendly that you claim was dominated by France is not the way to do it, and losing credibility in the process.

Again, that's the latest game they played. In Germany. Dominating the game. How anyone can say "France is not looking good" after this being their latest match is ridiculous.

And if you think depth isn't important, more power to you. And take a look at the starting XI. Germany had plenty of their starters.

 

[Disclose]

Im not underestimating Mexico. But how can anyone in their right mind pump their tires after their qualification process? Is a 6-3-1 record outstanding or even impressive by their standards? It is what is obviously and they can't really do anything about where they're located in the world. As for hostile environments and bad football pitches, you really think everyone is welcoming and every pitch is top notch in Europe?

it is what it is... you cant blame CONCACAF for being bad.
some groups are way stronger than others in Europe, which make it easier or difficult, depends where you landed.

Reality is Mexico is good and Mexico can go against teams in Europe. they've had success with their kids (u-17 champs in 2011 and olympic gold 2012 same core) who kept growing with the team and they're finally being smart exporting their players more and more.
Sweden vs Mexico will be an important one in the group. dont see it as an easy game because "concacaf"

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Again, that's the latest game they played. In Germany. Dominating the game. How anyone can say "France is not looking good" after this being their latest match is ridiculous.

And if you think depth isn't important, more power to you. And take a look at the starting XI. Germany had plenty of their starters.

And you keep going on about "dominating". Germany had 60/40 in possession, 13(4) shots, France 11(7). A 2-2 draw where Germany not only had back-ups throughout the line-up, they pulled Hummels at half. The back line trapped for offside on the 1st goal, but Can, as a mid, fell asleep and ruined that (he played terribly and is not even a 2nd choice for mids). Rudiger coming on for Hummels got lost on the 2nd goal. Low played an experimental formation on top of this. All reasons why friendlies are useless predictors, and here you still believe this "domination" took place. Enjoy the alternate reality you have found yourself in until June.

 

[Evilo]

You are in an alternate reality if you don't think France dominated that game.

Did you even watch the game? I'm seriously wondering here.

 

[Eternalize]

it is what it is... you cant blame CONCACAF for being bad.
some groups are way stronger than others in Europe, which make it easier or difficult, depends where you landed.

Reality is Mexico is good and Mexico can go against teams in Europe. they've had success with their kids (u-17 champs in 2011 and olympic gold 2012 same core) who kept growing with the team and they're finally being smart exporting their players more and more.
Sweden vs Mexico will be an important one in the group. dont see it as an easy game because "concacaf"

Why can't i blame the CONCACAF for being bad? I've already said that Mexico can't do much for being located where they are. Still, the Asian qualifiers and the CONCACAF qualifiers are just so much easier to advance from compared to Europe and the South America qualifiers where you got all the power houses. Im not only speaking of competition, but also the amount of direct qualification spots CONCACAF have based on the quality of the continent. There's 6 teams, with 3 direct World Cup spots, and 1 playoff spot. That's crazy. Should at least have 1 direct spot less. In Europe or even South America it's extremely hard for smaller teams to advance considering how competive the groups are, and based on the few number of World Cup spots.

For instance, Sweden missed the last World Cup after finishing 2nd after the upcoming champions Germany. Behind Sweden you had solid teams such as Austria and Ireland. In the playoffs Sweden had to go up against Portugal, yay! That's the point. You will never see Mexico having any problems with qualifiers because the quality and difficulty just isn't there. Even the powerhouses can struggle with qualifiers in the 2 biggest football continents, that's why you won't see teams like Chile, Italy and the Netherlands in the World Cup.

And again. I've never said that Mexico isn't a good team. Please quote were i said that they weren't. As for under 21 team achievements, i could mention Swedens Euro u21 win in 2015. I don't see how this is relevant to how the actual international teams are doing right now though.

 

[Moncherry]

Mexico will do their usual come second in the group and lose in the round of 16 because they aren't good enough to beat the top teams.

-Finish behind Germany
-Eliminated by Brazil in the next round

99% probability this will be the scenario should they advance.

 

[cgf]

It is amusing reading evilo talk about dominating that friendly, given how salty he's gotten when I've talked about how germany dominated their SF match up at the euros.

 

[Evilo]

Tbf France had 11 french players on the pitch and Germany had none. So by (evilo's) definition France dominated ;-)

Did you see the game?
If so can you deny France dominated?

That would actually be a more interesting post than yet another trolling idiotic post.

 

[cgf]

Did you see the game?
If so can you deny France dominated?

I watched about the last 30 minutes of it, so I won't argue that point because it is possible that France dominated the other hour of play that I missed.