Prospect Info: 2018-2019 Senators prospect watch part II

[foggyvisor]

Holy crap, I never called him a bust. He may very well become a number 1 centre.

All I said is that he doesn't warrant a call-up and his stock has likely dropped. Even if by a couple of slots. Can it go up again? Sure. But I'm making an assessment as of today.

He is turning out to be more of a project that originally projected. Forget about him and hopefully a couple of years in the A will get him back on the radar.

 

[MaxTheLimit]

Holy crap, I never called him a bust. He may very well become a number 1 centre.

No one said that you did. At least not that I've seen. I think the point some are trying to make is that it's early to draw any conclusions about the player his / will become.

All I said is that he doesn't warrant a call-up and his stock has likely dropped. Even if by a couple of slots. Can it go up again? Sure. But I'm making an assessment as of today.

I actually agree with you that it's not the time to be calling him up. Let him get his feet under him in the AHL. Let him build some strength and learn the pro game some more. Most of his experience thus far comes from OHL and junior hockey.

He is turning out to be more of a project that originally projected. Forget about him and hopefully a couple of years in the A will get him back on the radar.

I dunno about a couple years, but yes. Leave him to develop. I wouldn't say this is unexpected though. Even when he was drafted people were saying he would need work on his strength, and all around game before he would be an NHL player. It's taking a while because, I think, the injuries have set him back. That said, it was commonly thought that he would be a player that needed to evolve. It is still in the process, and I guess....we will see.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[NyQuil]

I think Brown's stock has dropped.

He had a golden opportunity this year with the injury to Pageau and the emphasis on youth and he failed to impress at training camp.

It's not permanent, but it was noticeable IMO.

Contrast how he performed with Tkachuk, Formenton and Lajoie.

I'll wager a lot of people had Brown ahead of all three guys going into this season.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I think Brown's stock has dropped.

He had a golden opportunity this year with the injury to Pageau and the emphasis on youth and he failed to impress at camp.

It's not permanent, but it was noticeable IMO.

Contrast how he performed with Formenton and Lajoie.

I think he was way too raw to perform anyway even if half our centres are done. He needed 1-2 years in the AHL minimum anyway before he could play in the NHL. Still way too raw and thin. Think of Mantha.

 

[NyQuil]

I think he was way too raw to perform anyway even if half our centres are done. He needed 1-2 years in the AHL minimum anyway before he could play in the NHL. Still way too raw and thin. Think of Mantha.

That's fair.

Realistically, you aren't going to be impressed with everyone and I think Logan left something on the table this year.

I understand why he's not ready, but it was an opportunity to take a step and I think he missed out.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

That's fair.

Realistically, you aren't going to be impressed with everyone and I think Logan left something on the table this year.

Oh I agree but his pre-season was extremely promising. He was getting 4 point games and sniping and meshing with Batherson. His injuries I feel masked that and is making him seem underwhelming more than his performance has been.

 

[aragorn]

I think Brown's stock has dropped.

He had a golden opportunity this year with the injury to Pageau and the emphasis on youth and he failed to impress at training camp.

It's not permanent, but it was noticeable IMO.

Contrast how he performed with Tkachuk, Formenton and Lajoie.

I'll wager a lot of people had Brown ahead of all three guys going into this season.

Brown has played ONLY one game in Belleville this yr, that's it. Is this the reason his stocked has dropped because he has been injured all yr there? Is being injured now a reason for one's stock to drop or are we concluding that he is injury prone & therefore his stock has dropped because of it? Has his skill, hockey IQ, vision & playmaking ability all diminished because he is injured? I think not. I'm not a huge Brown fan & find he lacks intensity but do think they drafted him to be their #1 centre of the future. I also don't think callups are based solely on how a player is doing in the AHL, I think some of that is over blown or simply used as an excuse or reason. We have seen many times GMs doing favours for players to garner them some attention at the NHL level & as a way to thank some vets for signing & playing in the AHL to help their young roster. It's naive to think otherwise is it not?

Brown had an excellent rookie camp & training camp & looked to be well on his way & then he got hurt again. He also had a very good training camp the yr before. He has had several injuries over the last two yrs at least that have resulted in him missing substantial time including not being able to play in last yr's WJC for the US. How anyone can say his stock has dropped due to injury is a little premature at best when he continues to have a very high skill set & it's his injuries that are so far anyway stopping him from being in the conversation with the other young players who are doing well. Injured & not playing = stock drop, I guess here. Has Pageau's stock also dropped since he is out with an injury? It's pretty hard to impress the fans with your skill & talent from the trainers table. I suggest we wait to see how he does after he returns from injury & is 100% recovered again.

 

[NyQuil]

Brown has played ONLY one game in Belleville this yr, that's it. Is this the reason his stocked has dropped because he has been injured all yr there? Is being injured now a reason for one's stock to drop or are we concluding that he is injury prone & therefore his stock has dropped because of it? Has his skill, hockey IQ, vision & playmaking ability all diminished because he is injured? I think not. I'm not a huge Brown fan & find he lacks intensity but do think they drafted him to be their #1 centre of the future. I also don't think callups are based solely on how a player is doing in the AHL, I think some of that is over blown or simply used as an excuse or reason. We have seen many times GMs doing favours for players to garner them some attention at the NHL level & as a way to thank some vets for signing & playing in the AHL to help their young roster. It's naive to think otherwise is it not?

Brown had an excellent rookie camp & training camp & looked to be well on his way & then he got hurt again. He also had a very good training camp the yr before. He has had several injuries over the last two yrs at least that have resulted in him missing substantial time including not being able to play in last yr's WJC for the US. How anyone can say his stock has dropped due to injury is a little premature at best when he continues to have a very high skill set & it's his injuries that are so far anyway stopping him from being in the conversation with the other young players who are doing well. Injured & not playing = stock drop, I guess here. Has Pageau's stock also dropped since he is out with an injury? It's pretty hard to impress the fans with your skill & talent from the trainers table. I suggest we wait to see how he does after he returns from injury & is 100% recovered again.

I'm not sure where I said his stock couldn't rise again.

And I don't recall mentioning his AHL experience as the reason why his stock dropped. I don't think he played as well in the off-season as you do apparently. He was good against weak competition but struggled

And for the record, I do think Pageau's stock HAS dropped a little bit too.

He was given the keys to the second line and due to his injury Tierney came in and made it his.

In both cases, I think they had opportunities and due to bad luck other players have moved ahead of them, relatively speaking.

It may not be fair but you aren't helping your development, the team, or your stock when you're on the shelf.

 

[aragorn]

I'm not sure where I said his stock couldn't rise again.

And for the record, I do think Pageau's stock HAS dropped a little bit too.

He was given the keys to the second line and due to his injury Tierney came in and made it his.

In both cases, I think they had opportunities and due to bad luck other players have moved ahead of them, relatively speaking.

But are you not giving any credence to the fact that he has only played one game due to injury? This stock drop thing is made up by fans because they are score board watching & haven't heard or seen his name in a while without checking to see that he has only played one game so far this yr.

Brown is 20 yrs old & on this we agree that when he returns from injury, if he can again produce pts, he will be talked about again in a positive way. Of course, the toll of constantly being injured could also go south but at 20 yrs old I suspect he will rebound from this successfully. I know we live in a "what have you done for me lately" society & out of sight is out of mind for most but people are making stuff up about Brown simply because he isn't playing due to injury. I maintain that the Sens drafted this guy to be their #1 centre of the future & I think they give him ever opportunity to grow into that job & more likely sooner rather than later.

This report on Brown reflects his potential but as I have said for a while with this guy that he will be a lot like Spezza in that while his skill & talent are obvious, his tendency to look like he isn't trying will always keep you wanting for more from him. IMO it's all between the ears with this guy on what he eventually accomplishes at the NHL level but his potential IMO is extremely interesting at the least.

Top 25 Under 25 2018, #2: Logan Brown

The Draft Analyst | Draft Profile: Logan Brown

https://thehockeywriters.com/logan-brown-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

 

[NyQuil]

But are you not giving any credence to the fact that he has only played one game due to injury? This stock drop thing is made up by fans because they are score board watching & haven't heard or seen his name in a while without checking to see that he has only played one game so far this yr.

Brown is 20 yrs old & on this we agree that when he returns from injury, if he can again produce pts, he will be talked about again in a positive way. Of course, the toll of constantly being injured could also go south but at 20 yrs old I suspect he will rebound from this successfully. I know we live in a "what have you done for me lately" society & out of sight is out of mind for most but people are making stuff up about Brown simply because he isn't playing due to injury. I maintain that the Sens drafted this guy to be their #1 centre of the future & I think they give him ever opportunity to grow into that job & more likely sooner rather than later.

This report on Brown reflects his potential but as I have said for a while with this guy that he will be a lot like Spezza in that while his skill & talent are obvious, his tendency to look like he isn't trying will always keep you wanting for more from him. IMO it's all between the ears with this guy on what he eventually accomplishes at the NHL level but his potential IMO is extremely interesting at the least.

Top 25 Under 25 2018, #2: Logan Brown

The Draft Analyst | Draft Profile: Logan Brown

https://thehockeywriters.com/logan-brown-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

You're acting like I'm some kind of idiot who doesn't know anything about Logan Brown.

I know all about his size and his hands and the Jason Spezza comparison and the fact that he's a boom/bust prospect and the lack of intensity and the trade in Junior and everything else.

This is from July 30th, 2018:

Logan Brown has his sights on making the Ottawa Senators roster out of training camp for the second consecutive season.

But this time, he hopes his stay in the NHL is permanent.

The 20-year-old center, selected by the Senators with the No. 11 pick in the 2016 NHL Draft, had one assist in four games with Ottawa last season, but was sent back to Windsor of the Ontario Hockey League on Oct. 25, 2017, with some specific instructions from the Senators.

"Just get faster, stronger, bigger. It's what everyone needs," Brown (6-foot-6, 220 pounds) said. "It's the little things in the game that I've got to work on. That was the message, that I took a lot of steps, but I've got to make some more to make the team.

"I'm coming to camp to make the team, so I'm doing everything I can to put myself in a good position."

He didn't impress in pre-season despite the opportunity afforded by more open spots in the line-up this season and despite the fact that he already had a training camp under his belt.

He actually made it on the Senators longer last year than he did this year.

This is why I think his stock has dropped.

His lack of AHL play has nothing to do with it.

 

[BondraTime]

Brown always needed time in Bellville. He was never going to be making the Sens out of camp, or shouldn't be.

That doesn't drop him for me, he is still our highest potential prospect.

 

[NyQuil]

That doesn't drop him for me, he is still our highest potential prospect.

I've got Batherson ahead of him for sure.

 

[Sensinitis]

Brown always needed time in Bellville. He was never going to be making the Sens out of camp, or shouldn't be.

That doesn't drop him for me, he is still our highest potential prospect.

Well he did last season, which gave some (like me) the expectation that he would be capable of doing so this year too.

He didn't. Oh well, he still has his high end skill and playmaking and it's probably for the best that he plays in Belleville this season.

 

[BondraTime]

Well he did last season, which gave some (like me) the expectation that he would be capable of doing so this year too.

He didn't. Oh well, he still has his high end skill and playmaking and it's probably for the best that he plays in Belleville this season.

Last year was a cup of coffee, that's it.

He always needed time in the AHL, that was for certain.

 

[Cosmix]

I do think that Brown will be a #1 centre for the Sens within the next two yrs. Although he has had some injury issues I don't think that tales away from his abilities to make plays. He's huge although soft, he's skilled although not quite determined enough & he has a high hockey IQ & is an excellent playmaker although he needs good wingers to help him. IF they put Brown in the middle of two very good wingers with one being very aggressive who can dig pucks out of the corners & along the boards for him & the other being a pure goal scorer than I think Brown can get him the puck & they would compliment his skills.

Looking at the young guys on this team I would put either Tkachuk or Formenton or maybe even Paul on his left wing & Stone, Ryan or Batherson on his right side. Brown isn't aggressive enough to dig pucks out of the corners or along the boards & needs a winger to that for him & Tkachuk, Formenton or Paul could all do that. While Brown has a decent shot & should score some goals himself he is much more of a playmaker & passer & therefore needs someone who can score to finish plays for him & Stone, Ryan & Batherson should all be able to do that for him. These three lines all work for me in future regarding Brown.

Formenton - Brown - Stone
Tkachuk - Brown - Batherson
Paul - Brown - Ryan

They should bring Brown up this yr at some point to see where he is with his development & try him with a couple of good wingers, I'd even try him at centre between Duchene & Stone. I think Ottawa has a number of good centres coming in Brown, Chlapik, Norris, White is already here & Paul would make a good 4th line centre IMO.

I have high hopes but gradually lessening confidence that Logan Brown will develop into the number 1 center you envision. Hopefully he will become stronger as he ages so that he does not get the injuries that he has been. I see him remaining in Belleville for this year and part of next year unless injuries require him to be brought up.

 

[foggyvisor]

Brown always needed time in Bellville. He was never going to be making the Sens out of camp, or shouldn't be.

That doesn't drop him for me, he is still our highest potential prospect.

Potential is fine, but he also is more of a boom/bust type with a low floor and high ceiling. His injuries combined with the continued questions about his drive make me wonder how his value could remain unaffected since the draft.

Discounting the fact that Brown plays centre, I don't see how he could be ranked above a guy like Batherson who continues to progress in an almost unprecedented linear fashion through different levels of hockey.

 

[aragorn]

You're acting like I'm some kind of idiot who doesn't know anything about Logan Brown.

I know all about his size and his hands and the Jason Spezza comparison and the fact that he's a boom/bust prospect and the lack of intensity and the trade in Junior and everything else.

This is from July 30th, 2018:

He didn't impress in pre-season despite the opportunity afforded by more open spots in the line-up this season and despite the fact that he already had a training camp under his belt.

He actually made it on the Senators longer last year than he did this year.

This is why I think his stock has dropped.

His lack of AHL play has nothing to do with it.

Okay, fair enough. I didn't mean anything derogatory with what I said, I appreciate your posts & have for yrs & always have considered you to be a fair poster.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Any news on when Brown will be back?

 

[Micklebot]

You guys seem to be defining "stock" differently than me. To me, Brown was drafted as a 2-3 year project that would become a top 6 center for the team, I think his progression so far in consistent with the plan and aside from being injured and missing the development time in the AHL they expected to give him is delayed. His stock hasn't dropped in my mind, though he may not have seen it rise the way say Batherson has, he's pretty much right on target as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Agent Zub]

Browns stock has dropped if only because of injuries.

He seems to get hurt for significant time every year.

Like him and his potential but I'll take Batherson if I had to pick one.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Brown always needed time in Bellville. He was never going to be making the Sens out of camp, or shouldn't be.

That doesn't drop him for me, he is still our highest potential prospect.

You guys seem to be defining "stock" differently than me. To me, Brown was drafted as a 2-3 year project that would become a top 6 center for the team, I think his progression so far in consistent with the plan and aside from being injured and missing the development time in the AHL they expected to give him is delayed. His stock hasn't dropped in my mind, though he may not have seen it rise the way say Batherson has, he's pretty much right on target as far as I'm concerned.

Glad I read down because this saved me from crafting a (much less well-put) response.

 

[c_mak]

I am sorta worried about him, however I had the same worries about Colin white for a while and he seems to be excelling now that he is healthy.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It's not just Brown's injuries that have lowered his stock, it's his lack of effort level.

I remember how much his work ethic improved from the first half to the second half of his draft year. Kid was dominant in the latter half of the year when he started moving his feet and engaging consistently. Was a big reason why I had him so high on my list. Looked like a huge #1 center in the making.

After he was drafted he started slacking again and his play stagnated as a result. If he gets it through his head that he won't be successful unless he gives 100%, he could become a star. I'd give him 1-2YRs in Belleville to figure that out.

 

[BondraTime]

Loheit doesn't seem like an NHL prospect at this point in time, regardless of mono or time since draft