2018-19 Utica Comets, Pt. V

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Bad Goalie

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Head Coach - Carter Bancks
Assistant Coach - Wacey Hamilton
Assistant Coach - Luke Schenn

I can just Hear the Ghost shilling the expertise of 2 guys who have been hungry all their lives to get to the NHL and now they can teach that dream to all of the kids. They would be perfect.

Actually I think Schenn would be a good choice to run the Defense.

I might look up Kent Huskins and see whether or not he might like to take a shot at it.

Isn't this the method the bozos used last time? Nobody actually looking for an AHL job with an eventual eye on the NHL would touch this job after looking at the rosters of the past 4 years and studying the way the parent takes care or rather doesn't take care of its child. They should be charged with child neglect/abuse. They haven't even addressed the simplest needs season after season. They simply get enough players to play with the NHL call-ups they plant here to stay in shape. They didn't even do that this year. They managed to have a surplus they were able to keep in Vancouver because they had enough injuries throughout the season that enabled them to keep those guys playing, in the press box, or injured themselves all season. They never reached the point where someone other than Gaudette had to be sent down.
 

timbermen

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A major problem with the Canucks organization is the lousy coaches they keep hiring. Desjardins, Green and Cull, the three stooges. If management can't even hire a competent coach it doesn't matter what players they bring in.
 

Andy Dufresne

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There was literally ZERO chance Teves would have signed an ATO. He was a UFA.

Was he a good NHL signing ??? Nobody knows, probably not, shrug. He obviously should be in the line-up so we can get some idea what he is at the nhl level, before he's a RFA in a few months.

But this is the Utica thread, and there was never any chance he was going to sign anything involving any AHL team, when there were multiple nhl teams talking to him.
 

tyhee

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There was literally ZERO chance Teves would have signed an ATO. He was a UFA.

Was he a good NHL signing ??? Nobody knows, probably not, shrug. He obviously should be in the line-up so we can get some idea what he is at the nhl level, before he's a RFA in a few months.

But this is the Utica thread, and there was never any chance he was going to sign anything involving any AHL team, when there were multiple nhl teams talking to him.

I think you're right that Teves wouldn't have signed an ATO, but I think he might have signed his elc to start next season instead of this one and a professional tryout (or just a 1 year standard player contract) with Utica for the balance of this season.

He's a prospect and hopefully he'll succeed, but I haven't seen anything to indicate he's a high end college free agent, expected to be good enough to play in the NHL right away. If you think some other GM would have given him that extra incentive you have a much higher view of Teves' standing as a prospect than I do.

He had two teammates sign at the end of the college season for entry level deals starting this season, but they're in difference positions. Both of them were signing two year entry level contracts (compared with just one for Teves) and both of them have gotten in several games with their NHL teams already. Veronneau has a goal and an assist in his first 5 games while averaging 15:17 per game, which seems to me to be middle six ice time.

Teves isn't getting time on a defence that is really weak when everyone is healthy, and they haven't been healthy.

Unless he's a much, much better prospect than I'm aware of him being, it is hard to see him having been offered a 2018-19 one year contract to be burned when he's not ready for the NHL this season anyway.

If your point is that Teves wouldn't sign with the Canucks unless the Canucks give them more incentive than anyone else, it's hard to argue that. Otoh, it's a rough statement about the Canucks' management if they can't sign a defender when they can offer him as good a chance as he'll get to actually make the NHL team within a couple of years if he's good enough.
 

UticaHockey

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Feb 27, 2013
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There was literally ZERO chance Teves would have signed an ATO. He was a UFA.

Was he a good NHL signing ??? Nobody knows, probably not, shrug. He obviously should be in the line-up so we can get some idea what he is at the nhl level, before he's a RFA in a few months.

But this is the Utica thread, and there was never any chance he was going to sign anything involving any AHL team, when there were multiple nhl teams talking to him.
You are right that there was a zero chance that Teves would sign an ATO in the AHL for the remainder of this season and his ELC starting in 2019-20 but not because he was a UFA it was because of the GM that signed him. When a GM has a reputation for always burning off a year of an ELC with NCAA players, always adding more term to bottom six UFAs and always throwing in draft picks with trades Jim Benning starts every negotiation at a disadvantage.

To say that a college UFA has a zero chance of signing an ATO with the AHL farm team and have his NHL ELC start in July is simply not true. These signings happen every season and you don't have to look very hard to find a new example. Joseph Duszak is a higher regarded NCAA defeneman prospect than Josh Teves (A top 10 Hobey Baker finalist) . Duszak had multiple teams interested in him so the leverage was his on negotiating a contract that would get him into NHL games this season but instead he signed with the Leafs starting in the 2019-20 season and an ATO with the Marlies so that he could get meaningful minutes this year in the AHL.

Don't say that there is a zero chance of these things happening because it isn't true. Don't accept Benning's excuses for this or why he has packaged draft picks with trades in the past or why he wasn't able to trade for picks at the deadline. The best thing for Teves, the Canucks and certainly the Comets would be for Teves to be playing in the AHL adjusting to the pro game after his college career and not sitting in a NHL press box. It is up to Benning to sell that idea to him in his negotiations. But Benning never does.



 

krutovsdonut

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benning got teves because he was willing to burn a year and commit to sign him as an rfa. he still likely hits the ahl next year, but i will guess the rest of the deal is that when he signs this summer he will have either a high ahl salary or a one way contract and so be making bank in the ahl compared to an elc.

it's actually creative. canucks have money and found a way to use it to attract a ufa who had options with better teams.
 

tantalum

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I'm not sure there is a better option for someone like Teves. The canucks easily have the worst defensive depth up and down through the organization.
 

tyhee

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benning got teves because he was willing to burn a year and commit to sign him as an rfa. he still likely hits the ahl next year, but i will guess the rest of the deal is that when he signs this summer he will have either a high ahl salary or a one way contract and so be making bank in the ahl compared to an elc.

it's actually creative. canucks have money and found a way to use it to attract a ufa who had options with better teams.

"canucks have money and found a way to use it to attract a ufa who had options with better teams."

Canucks have money and used it to overpay a middling college prospect while ignoring their suffering, PTO-laden AHL team, staying consistent with past actions.
 

Bad Goalie

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I think you're right that Teves wouldn't have signed an ATO, but I think he might have signed his elc to start next season instead of this one and a professional tryout (or just a 1 year standard player contract) with Utica for the balance of this season.

He's a prospect and hopefully he'll succeed, but I haven't seen anything to indicate he's a high end college free agent, expected to be good enough to play in the NHL right away. If you think some other GM would have given him that extra incentive you have a much higher view of Teves' standing as a prospect than I do.

He had two teammates sign at the end of the college season for entry level deals starting this season, but they're in difference positions. Both of them were signing two year entry level contracts (compared with just one for Teves) and both of them have gotten in several games with their NHL teams already. Veronneau has a goal and an assist in his first 5 games while averaging 15:17 per game, which seems to me to be middle six ice time.

Teves isn't getting time on a defence that is really weak when everyone is healthy, and they haven't been healthy.

Unless he's a much, much better prospect than I'm aware of him being, it is hard to see him having been offered a 2018-19 one year contract to be burned when he's not ready for the NHL this season anyway.

If your point is that Teves wouldn't sign with the Canucks unless the Canucks give them more incentive than anyone else, it's hard to argue that. Otoh, it's a rough statement about the Canucks' management if they can't sign a defender when they can offer him as good a chance as he'll get to actually make the NHL team within a couple of years if he's good enough.

Benning couldn't negotiate himself out of a yard sale without paying more than the item originally sold for.

Wait until this summer and he has to deal with the large number of RFAs and Edler. Then he'll dive into the free agent market. If he operates on past behavior, the end result will be cha-ching for extended contracts with NTCs/NMCs and the Canucks spent to the cap.

Especially if someone informs him of just exactly how many of his 50 contracts he actually has available if he cuts all but one UFA loose, Edler. He could let him go as well and that would be par for the course letting value walk for nothing in return, but it would open 7 spots.

Edler
Schenn
Pyatt
McEneny
Mazanec
Leighton
Dorsett

Then he has a bunch of RFAs that could be dealt for draft picks which don't take up contract spots.

He could then have all the Comets not on ELCs signed to AHL contracts. They wouldn't be good players. More Woods, Darcy, Hamilton, and Arseneau types. He doesn't care about them anyways and that applies to both his prospects and the Comets. Then he can stash his handful of NHL 2-ways for call-up purposes and he could fill up the Canuck's roster with all sorts of new acquisitions.

For the life of me I can't fathom how anybody who has ****ed up as much as he has can still have a job. For all, of his drafting prowess he has Pettersson and Boeser shining in the lineup coming into his 6th draft.

Virtanen is nothing that couldn't be replaced and Juolevi has yet to play a game for the Canucks. I can't believe the number of posters who have Olli penciled into the Canucks lineup next season. If they think Green gave the offensive whizz, Subban, a raw deal and Goldobin got punished a lot for his defensive errors, wait until Green has to deal with this guy's shortcomings.

Demko has not played anywhere near enough games to be considered for the #1 job which many seem to think he can handle and thus are saying Markstrom could be dealt now while the iron is hot. His game total at this point is nothing more than giving an AHL guy a few games at the end of the season to see what you might have in the future.

We'll wait on Hughes. He could be shiny object #3.

As to Teves and his contract, what a joke. Apparently Benning thought he would lose this blue chipper if he didn't lick his boots. Yet, the saliva is sopping up, the press box floor. What do they have in Teves? Who knows? He hasn't played. Benning couldn't take a chance to see because in his clouded mind the playoffs were still in sight.

Got a feeling Lockwood sits this one out, waits until next season, and if his numbers soar, he heads for greener pastures. If they don't he signs with Vancouver and if Benning is till the GM, burns a year off his ELC and thus, gets the same good deal anyways.

I already made my opinion on his signing known in Post #1029 back on page 42.
 
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krutovsdonut

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"canucks have money and found a way to use it to attract a ufa who had options with better teams."

Canucks have money and used it to overpay a middling college prospect while ignoring their suffering, PTO-laden AHL team, staying consistent with past actions.

in the part of my post you omitted from your quote i answered this idea by suggesting he is bound for the ahl next year and that burning his elc year allowed them to make that an ahl level contract offer more attractive to him for next year. thus the signing is not ignoring their ahl team. it is helping the ahl team.

kind of a weird thing to delete the other guy's argument that answers your point.
 
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tyhee

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...

Wait until this summer and he has to deal with the large number of RFAs and Edler. Then he'll dive into the free agent market. If he operates on past behavior, the end result will be cha-ching for extended contracts with NTCs/NMCs and the Canucks spent to the cap. ...

JB has money to spend, roster spots to spend it on, a job to save and a team to turn around in a hurry so as to make the playoffs every year. If this summer goes as badly as I worry it will, it could set the franchise back years.

... Then he has a bunch of RFAs that could be dealt for draft picks which don't take up contract spots.

That would only be in character to the extent that he’s dealing guys he’s decided he doesn’t want to keep anyway, so the picks that could come back would be in the bottom two rounds. On past performance imo he’s more likely to deal multiple pieces for somebody coming to the end of his waiver exemption or elc that he can give an extension to based on his perception of that guy’s worth, so that he can then trade that acquisition a few years down the road for somebody else’s bad contract.

For the life of me I can't fathom how anybody who has ****ed up as much as he has can still have a job. ... [/QUOTE]

In wondering that you’ve got considerable company on this forum.

I keep thinking that when the season is over it will be impossible for Aquilini to fail to realize the damage the guy he’s put in charge is doing to that billion dollar investment. But then I’m also the (naive??) guy that thought the Canucks would actually allow Gaudette to develop in the AHL this season.

I believe that if Benning isn’t fired early this offseason his signings and trades could do a great deal of damage to the long-term health of the Canucks.

To some extent you in Utica have it worse than we do in British Columbia. At least Benning cares about and pays attention to the Canucks. In another way you could have it better in the future. It doesn’t take as long to build an AHL contender as it does to build an NHL contender. The level of play is lower, it is the next step up for prospects rather than being a couple of steps up, every summer there are players who could be useful to an AHL team that can be signed at a price that the Canucks can afford to spend and there is no limit to the active roster and no salary cap. Think of what kind of roster Lorne Henning with help from Pat Conacher could have put together for the Comets for 2015-16 if both were there and they had a budget equal to what the Canucks eventually spent on payroll for the Comets. Think Chris Higgins and Brandon Prust. The only serious constraint would be the limit on veteran skaters that can be dressed for a game and, as usual, a lack of prospects, at least at the start.

... I can't believe the number of posters who have Olli penciled into the Canucks lineup next season. ...

I'm guessing it's a similar number to the number posting lineups with Cole Cassels as the 3rd line center and Jordan Subban a regular on defence in the 2015 offseason.

Now we get lineups with Juolevi a defensive regular (sometimes in the top 4) and MacEwen stepping in at forward.

You’ve been consistent in pointing out MacEwen’s weaknesses. I’d posted some time back that the Canucks would give him a callup and try him out. They did and it wasn't a surprise to those that read reports about Comets games that the Canucks found he wasn’t ready for the NHL. It doesn’t stop people from holding the view that Juolevi is about ready and MacEwen could replace a Canuck 3rd line forward right now.

... We'll wait on Hughes. He could be shiny object #3. ...

I see Hughes as a very good prospect. Many others are certain he will step into the NHL and be effective immediately. They might be right. I’m never so sure how a prospect will turn out. The one thing we know is that he WILL be the next shiny object. I can’t see any realistic chance that Benning gives him time in the AHL unless and until the coach refuses to play him.

... We'll wait on Hughes. He could be shiny object #3.

Demko has not played anywhere near enough games to be considered for the #1 job which many seem to think he can handle and thus are saying Markstrom could be dealt now while the iron is hot. ...

I had a strange thought yesterday. It will be really unpopular on this forum (and would be more so on CDC) but it came from a poster talking about trading Markstrom.

The idea is actually supportable, though it goes way off your topic. The supporting argument, which I'll throw out there for discussion (in italics) would go something like:

The Canucks are a franchise in trouble that hasn’t begun to rebuild. The supporting cast is so weak that they need much more than what many anticipate. Normally a rebuilding team would trade players who are past the usual prime years or reaching the end of the usual prime years who are good enough to have considerable value to other teams. The Canucks have almost nobody who fits that description. They’ve lost their chance to trade Edler, Tanev’s value is way down from what it was three years ago, Sutter’s value has to have dropped, Pearson is worth next to nothing, Baertschi’s trade value is hurt by the question of how his multiple concussions will affect his career going forward and there is virtually nobody else in the right age range with a reasonable positive trade value except Markstrom.

Jacob Markstrom is 29 years old, coming off a good season and plays a position in which players notoriously blow hot and cold from one season to the next. He may never be better than he’s been this season and may have some value on the trade market. If he does, perhaps it is best to get future assets that may be of value in a few years, when Markstrom will be an aging goalie. Just as a team contending for a Cup may trade future assets for present ones, maybe this team that is years from contending for a Cup should trade present assets for future ones.

They’d then have to scour the free agent market and find a replacement for Markstrom, but decent goalies sometimes are available relatively cheaply as summer free agents. The Canucks don’t need a top-notch goalie, they just need somebody good enough to look like an NHL goalie while the prospects develop to make the team good in the future.

There is also the chance that it may be hard for the Canucks to extend Markstrom after next season. If so, they need to move him to get some value for him rather than lose him for nothing.


Most wouldn’t accept that argument, but it isn’t totally out of line. I thought the Canucks should explore what the trade value for Tanev was back in the summer of 2016. If their pro scouting was good enough to trust to come up with a replacement who wasn’t embarrassing, I’d take the position they should be making that kind of inquiry about Markstrom now. Maybe there wouldn’t be an offer worth considering, but if one accepts that the 2019-21 (or longer) Canucks are just treading water until some of the prospects mature, all sorts of thing become possible.

Otoh, I’d prefer the Canucks make no important moves until an astute general manager is in place, so I don't want the Canucks to explore trading Markstrom at this time.
 
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tyhee

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in the part of my post you omitted from your quote i answered this idea by suggesting he is bound for the ahl next year and that burning his elc year allowed them to make that an ahl level contract offer more attractive to him for next year. thus the signing is not ignoring their ahl team. it is helping the ahl team.

kind of a weird thing to delete the other guy's argument that answers your point.

You've shown clearly that you don't understand my point.

I absolutely agree that Benning has, in your words, done something "to make that an ahl level contract offer more attractive to him." The fact that he did so is what I have a problem with.

The point is that he isn't a good enough prospect to be doing that for. It is overpayment based on where he is right now. The fact that it is a good deal for Josh Teves isn't an issue. The issue is, as Bad Goalie puts it, that Benning's negotiating skills are such that he can't buy something at a garage sale without paying more than the list price. All Benning has done here, somewhat creatively, is pay more to Josh Teves than anybody else would have been willing to.

I don't deny that Benning is capable of overpaying. He's very good at it. I don't think it's a good trait for a general manager to have.

You get the free last word on this, as I won't be responding further.
 
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krutovsdonut

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You've shown clearly that you don't understand my point.

I absolutely agree that Benning has, in your words, done something "to make that an ahl level contract offer more attractive to him." The fact that he did so is what I have a problem with.

The point is that he isn't a good enough prospect to be doing that for. It is overpayment based on where he is right now. The fact that it is a good deal for Josh Teves isn't an issue. The issue is, as Bad Goalie puts it, that Benning's negotiating skills are such that he can't buy something at a garage sale without paying more than the list price. All Benning has done here, somewhat creatively, is pay more to Josh Teves than anybody else would have been willing to.

I don't deny that Benning is capable of overpaying. He's very good at it. I don't think it's a good trait for a general manager to have.

You get the free last word on this, as I won't be responding further.

i understood your actual words perfectly. you said benning was "ignoring" the ahl. i responded to that. now you admit he was not ignoring the ahl, but claim you always said that. that is not true. it is revisionism on your part. if you don't want people to misunderstand what you meant to say, try saying it.

as for your newly expressed idea that benning is trying to help the ahl but failing because teves is junk and not worth overpaying to sign, i am at a loss on the last part. overpaying ahl signings hurts nobody but the aquilinni family. there are no cap issues even if the guy is called up. you as a fan should be glad you follow a team willing to do it. it gives the canucks an edge.

as for your scouting hot take on teves that he is a dud as if you have scouted this guy enough to know, my response is that he is a better prospect than the canucks would have been able to sign otherwise, and also better than nothing, which is a distinct possibility if they simply offered the going rate. my further response is that the canucks do have a decent track record with free agent college signings. my still further response is that the leafs, who are being held out here as smarter than the canucks, actually have a track record of taking on blown canuck ahl prospects. my final response is that he is an asset akin to a late round draft pick, and you are among the many here who complain the canucks don't assiduously accumulate draft picks, yet complain bitterly when the team acquires an equivalent longshot at no cost whatever to the team's asset base.

i'll stand by for your argument about contract slots.
 

BerSTUzzi

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Well, I am slightly hopeful you guys might actually see Jett Woo down there shortly. His team is down 3 - 0 and it could be over tonight, here’s hoping.

Even if Jim pulls a Jim there will be too many bodies in Van and someone will have to go down.
 
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Bad Goalie

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Well, I am slightly hopeful you guys might actually see Jett Woo down there shortly. His team is down 3 - 0 and it could be over tonight, here’s hoping.

Even if Jim pulls a Jim there will be too many bodies in Van and someone will have to go down.

Do you mean too many bodies to juggle or too many bodies by rule. There are no number restrictions after the TDL.

I can see Benning signing him playing him and then sending him back to Jrs in the Fall. He can't burn off the 9 games because they won't have 9 left. You know really encourage the kid to work all summer to be NHL ready by September. A "reel gud idea"!
 
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