2018-19 Utica Comets, Pt. V
- Thread starter Zombotron
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The thing with a 5th round choice is it's rare they ever make it. A 5th rounder out of college is even farther down the ladder. How many games does an 18 yr old JR, 19 yr_old JR, and 20 yr- old prospect play in the AHL vs how many games does a college player play by the end of 3 years.
18 JR - 68GP
19 JR - 68GP
20 AHL - 76GP
Total - 212 GP
Gaudette
18 - NCAA 41GP
19 - NCAA 37GP
20 - NCAA 38GP
Total - 116GP
So a 5th round selection goint the JR=AHL route has played a possible 96 more games. That would take 2 and 1/2 more years in college to make up.
That's why you see most late round college kids develop for a year or more in the AHL ranks. They have a lot of developing to do. Keeping their head above water and staying afloat on a 3rd or 4th line for a very bad NHL team is not the ideal way to develop this prospect. That's why you see the NHL teams assigning these guys to their AHL franchises at the end of this and every other season. Even most of the higher picks are in the AHL this year as well right now.
IS Gaudette getting PP time?
Is he getting PK time.
Is he getting top ice time in minutes played?
The answers are NO!
This is what I keep reading all prospects in Utica should be getting. Adam was getting those minutes in his 14 AHL games. Give him a few games here and there with the big club, but mostly in the AHL and I'm betting he would come into Vancouver camp in the Fall a much better player.
Adam Gaudette was not a top pick. He was not a blue chip prospect a la Boeser/Pettersson/Hughes. Those guys come in and make an immediate impact. Guys in Gaudette's position don't and their ceilings may never be reached if they don't get proper development time getting all kinds of ice time in all types of game situations. They experience atrophy sitting too many shifts and treading water in the bottom 6 putting up the kind of numbers good teams get from replacement players at low rates.
A 1st round pick, Jared McCann, was wasted in his 19yr old season in Vancouver. He was so disappointing to benning that he was traded. After a bit , the Panthers felt it was best if he played out the season in the AHL. He spent what would amount to a rookie season counting 19 as a throwaway, and yr 2 as his AHL development season. Now in his 3rd year he is coming into his own. He is currently on a 30 goals per season pace with the Penguins having put up 11 goals in 27 GP. I'm laughing at the Vancouver posts that have called him a bust and it was good that the Canucks got rid of him while he still had a little value. There are other posters in Van City who feel exactly as I have and rue his departure in the Gudbranson deal. Some kind of witchcraft that Pittsburgh now sings the praises of both of them playing together for the Pens. Another example questioning just how well all is handled by Vancouver management and coaching.
18 JR - 68GP
19 JR - 68GP
20 AHL - 76GP
Total - 212 GP
Gaudette
18 - NCAA 41GP
19 - NCAA 37GP
20 - NCAA 38GP
Total - 116GP
So a 5th round selection goint the JR=AHL route has played a possible 96 more games. That would take 2 and 1/2 more years in college to make up.
That's why you see most late round college kids develop for a year or more in the AHL ranks. They have a lot of developing to do. Keeping their head above water and staying afloat on a 3rd or 4th line for a very bad NHL team is not the ideal way to develop this prospect. That's why you see the NHL teams assigning these guys to their AHL franchises at the end of this and every other season. Even most of the higher picks are in the AHL this year as well right now.
IS Gaudette getting PP time?
Is he getting PK time.
Is he getting top ice time in minutes played?
The answers are NO!
This is what I keep reading all prospects in Utica should be getting. Adam was getting those minutes in his 14 AHL games. Give him a few games here and there with the big club, but mostly in the AHL and I'm betting he would come into Vancouver camp in the Fall a much better player.
Adam Gaudette was not a top pick. He was not a blue chip prospect a la Boeser/Pettersson/Hughes. Those guys come in and make an immediate impact. Guys in Gaudette's position don't and their ceilings may never be reached if they don't get proper development time getting all kinds of ice time in all types of game situations. They experience atrophy sitting too many shifts and treading water in the bottom 6 putting up the kind of numbers good teams get from replacement players at low rates.
A 1st round pick, Jared McCann, was wasted in his 19yr old season in Vancouver. He was so disappointing to benning that he was traded. After a bit , the Panthers felt it was best if he played out the season in the AHL. He spent what would amount to a rookie season counting 19 as a throwaway, and yr 2 as his AHL development season. Now in his 3rd year he is coming into his own. He is currently on a 30 goals per season pace with the Penguins having put up 11 goals in 27 GP. I'm laughing at the Vancouver posts that have called him a bust and it was good that the Canucks got rid of him while he still had a little value. There are other posters in Van City who feel exactly as I have and rue his departure in the Gudbranson deal. Some kind of witchcraft that Pittsburgh now sings the praises of both of them playing together for the Pens. Another example questioning just how well all is handled by Vancouver management and coaching.
Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
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Given the age construct of the ELC system plus the right to sign where they please on the Aug 15 following their fourth college season, you don't mess around when it comes to signing top 21YO college juniors. It is not in a team's best interest to have them decide to stay in school for one more year.
Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
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He has played in 76 NHL games. If he played in 80 he wouldn't become a Group 6 UFA so it just a matter of becoming official that he cannot hit the 80-game mark this season.
It may not be in their best interest to allow him to stay in school for the 4th year, but not assigning him to the AHL to grow his game was not the right move for a kid who is not making an impact playing in the bottom 6 at the end of his first pro season.
Incidentally, UticaHockey never mentioned having him stay in college. he's questioning the decision to play him almost exclusively in Vancouver. The kid has no leverage after signing as to where he splays that first ELC year. Might have been more beneficial to his development to start out and stay in the AHL for a good part of that season instead of being pushed out there as another of Benning's toys so he might look like he knows what he's doing. There is a reason folks keep accusing the Comets of not developing prospects. The prospects they end up getting, for the most part, were not in Benning's NHL plans anyways. If a kid should surprise him so be it, but he's not looking for it to happen. His praise of those types is window dressing for the media and blind portion of the fan base.
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So he is not there yet until the season ends and then his status will change. Gotcha. Thanx.
That makes it even easier for Benning to just let him fade into the sunset.
We are not convinced that Boucher will be re-signed either, but hope you are correct. It is quite usual for Benning not to re-up Utica's top performers. He usually trades them or just lets them walk. Boucher was an exception this season. That's why we are skeptical he will do it one more time. Can only wait and see.
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Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
- 3,436
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There was a reference to "the Vancouver marketing team pushed so hard on Gaudette signing his NHL contract last year"-- if they hadn't signed him, there was a chance that he might've stayed in college. As far as AHL/NHL is concerned for this season, he was assigned to Utica at the beginning of the season and then sent down a second time, too. He's been in Vancouver because of injuries.
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
"The Colorado Avalanche Hockey Club announced today that the team has signed forward Shane Bowers to a three-year, entry-level contract beginning with the 2019-20 season. Bowers will report to the Avalanche's American Hockey League affiliate, the Colorado Eagles, on an Amateur Tryout Contract (ATO).
Acquired by the Avalanche in a trade on Nov. 5, 2017, Bowers, 19, was selected by the Ottawa Senators in the first round (28th overall) of the 2017 NHL Draft. The Halifax, Nova Scotia, native just concluded his sophomore season with Boston University, where he finished fourth on the team with 21 points (11g, 10a) and ranked third in goals. He finished his college career with 53 points (28g, 25a) in 77 NCAA outings."
Avalanche Signs Shane Bowers
Acquired by the Avalanche in a trade on Nov. 5, 2017, Bowers, 19, was selected by the Ottawa Senators in the first round (28th overall) of the 2017 NHL Draft. The Halifax, Nova Scotia, native just concluded his sophomore season with Boston University, where he finished fourth on the team with 21 points (11g, 10a) and ranked third in goals. He finished his college career with 53 points (28g, 25a) in 77 NCAA outings."
Avalanche Signs Shane Bowers
Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
- 3,436
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How about Fitzgerald, Krys, Oettinger, Lohin, Cecconi, Gardner, Pearson, Kovacevic, etc.
The facts are most college players, juniors included, who sign at the end of the season sign NHL deals that start the following year and sign AHL tryouts for the remainder of the season. The Canucks refusal to do this makes them outliers in this regard.
Blue and Green
Out to lunch
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That's what they offered to Lockwood. Some guys decide to go back to college.
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
Do we know this for certain? I hate to ask for a trustworthy source on this one but I don't believe I have come across any reporting at all on the details of the offer to Lockwood; only that an offer had been extended to him.
I think at least part of this dresire we're seeing to avoid Utica is stemming from Benning having so thoroughly salted the ground down there that nothing can grow. It's become like this killing field where things go to die.
Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
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Benning said regarding Lockwood:
"Or if he decides that he wants to turn pro, then we’ll work with him and get him into Utica and get him up and going and help with his development.”
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
Yes, I recall this now. And realistically this is what he should expect to be looking at. He's probably looking at significant AHL time whenever/wherever he ends up signing.
Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
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Exactly. No reason to sign Lockwood to an ELC this season. Gaudette's accomplishments were far greater than Lockwood's.
2 tickets 10 rows from ice. $24.50 retail price. I literally cannot give these away to friends, family or anyone. Everyone is tired of Vancouver.
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
- Dec 28, 2009
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Gaudette definitely should have spent most of the season in Utica. It seemed that they were willing to call him up and send him down as needed earlier on, but on his last call up they seemed to just say "screw it" and decided to keep him up for the rest of the season probably due to a combination of Sutter being out for the year and needing to compete as they were sliding down in the standings.
But having to put yourself in this position to begin with is purely on Benning for not having enough proven NHL-quality centres to cover for injuries which we and all teams suffer every year. To the point where you have to rely on someone who's not fully ready for this level and could have used the development time with huge minutes playing in all situations in Utica. This hurts both the Canucks and the Comets and does nobody any good. It's a reflection of this regime's poor management strategy when it comes to young players and the farm.
But having to put yourself in this position to begin with is purely on Benning for not having enough proven NHL-quality centres to cover for injuries which we and all teams suffer every year. To the point where you have to rely on someone who's not fully ready for this level and could have used the development time with huge minutes playing in all situations in Utica. This hurts both the Canucks and the Comets and does nobody any good. It's a reflection of this regime's poor management strategy when it comes to young players and the farm.
Comets dropped another one tonight.
Toronto 5 Utica 2
Toronto had 2 empty net goals.
It was another of the games the Comets have been playing for the past month and 1/2. They come out hard, but can't score. In the 2nd they surrender a goal, often a PP as the one was.
1-0 after 2 periods.
The Marlies got 2 early ones in the 3rd and it was game over. The Comets over this period average 1 and 1/2 - 2 goals per game.
Also par for the course the Comets outshot the Marlies 39-23. They simply can't score. They had 6, and that's not a misprint, I said 6 clean all the way to, the net breakaways. Not once in the 6 did the player attempt any kind of move. They just shot the puck from straight on.
There were also multiple 2 on 1s and shot passes to a player breaking to the net and receiving that pass any where from the high slot to the crease.
If I never see Woods, Darcy, or Gardiner in a Comets uniform again it will be too soon. They simply are incapable of filling the center role in the AHL.
Seamus Malone is a 5/10", 181 lb, 22 yr-old rookie C/LW on an ATO out of NCAA Wisconsin where he put up 26Pts/37GP in this his 4th and last season. Tonight was his 5th game with the Comets and he scored his 2nd goal. He also scored in the Comets recent shootout win over Laval. He has more puck skills than those other 3 guys put together. He came in as a C/LW. So, of course, Cull plays him at LW with Woods as his center and Jasek on the RW. The kid does more with the puck than either of his linemates. His passes are crisp and on target. He can make a move or 2 to be sure he gets his passes away in open ice and not at the defender in his way as is the custom of the majority of the rest of the Comets. Gaunce may be the only other one.
I fully expect to see Woods, Darcy, and Gardiner back in camp in the Fall and they will eventually be signed to another AHL contract and be counted on to play key roles once again. Forgetting how poorly they have filled those roles the past 2 seasons. They will get these roles because they will be the best of the center talent invited to camp except maybe one better like Kero this season. Kero is not actually a good center either, but he puts up points, particularly goals. A large number of his assists were either on the PP (which has recently more than **** the bed) or on rebound scores from his shots. I'm skeptical of Malone getting a contract.
The Marlies dressed 5 familiar faces to Utica fans:
MacMaster
Carcone (1G), It was a rocket from the LW boards, face off circle high, off the far post just below the crossbar. It was his 13th/37GP as a Marlie and 19th overall counting his 6th/20GP with Utica.
Subban
Molino
Toronto plays a fast up tempo game in which they come up the ice in waves and pass the puck quickly and often. It is a fast possession game that works to get open shots. The Comets actually defended as a team as well as they have all season, but when you can't score it's enough to stay in it, but not enough to win it.
Disaster looks to strike twice in as many Saturday nights when the Comets visit Syracuse again tomorrow. It was 6-2 last week and is likely to be more of the same.
Lind, Gadjovich, Arseneau, Chatfield, and Hamilton, were once again injury scratches.
Corrado (1A)
Tom Sestito is also a Marlie, but is currently injured.
Toronto 5 Utica 2
Toronto had 2 empty net goals.
It was another of the games the Comets have been playing for the past month and 1/2. They come out hard, but can't score. In the 2nd they surrender a goal, often a PP as the one was.
1-0 after 2 periods.
The Marlies got 2 early ones in the 3rd and it was game over. The Comets over this period average 1 and 1/2 - 2 goals per game.
Also par for the course the Comets outshot the Marlies 39-23. They simply can't score. They had 6, and that's not a misprint, I said 6 clean all the way to, the net breakaways. Not once in the 6 did the player attempt any kind of move. They just shot the puck from straight on.
There were also multiple 2 on 1s and shot passes to a player breaking to the net and receiving that pass any where from the high slot to the crease.
If I never see Woods, Darcy, or Gardiner in a Comets uniform again it will be too soon. They simply are incapable of filling the center role in the AHL.
Seamus Malone is a 5/10", 181 lb, 22 yr-old rookie C/LW on an ATO out of NCAA Wisconsin where he put up 26Pts/37GP in this his 4th and last season. Tonight was his 5th game with the Comets and he scored his 2nd goal. He also scored in the Comets recent shootout win over Laval. He has more puck skills than those other 3 guys put together. He came in as a C/LW. So, of course, Cull plays him at LW with Woods as his center and Jasek on the RW. The kid does more with the puck than either of his linemates. His passes are crisp and on target. He can make a move or 2 to be sure he gets his passes away in open ice and not at the defender in his way as is the custom of the majority of the rest of the Comets. Gaunce may be the only other one.
I fully expect to see Woods, Darcy, and Gardiner back in camp in the Fall and they will eventually be signed to another AHL contract and be counted on to play key roles once again. Forgetting how poorly they have filled those roles the past 2 seasons. They will get these roles because they will be the best of the center talent invited to camp except maybe one better like Kero this season. Kero is not actually a good center either, but he puts up points, particularly goals. A large number of his assists were either on the PP (which has recently more than **** the bed) or on rebound scores from his shots. I'm skeptical of Malone getting a contract.
The Marlies dressed 5 familiar faces to Utica fans:
MacMaster
Carcone (1G), It was a rocket from the LW boards, face off circle high, off the far post just below the crossbar. It was his 13th/37GP as a Marlie and 19th overall counting his 6th/20GP with Utica.
Subban
Molino
Toronto plays a fast up tempo game in which they come up the ice in waves and pass the puck quickly and often. It is a fast possession game that works to get open shots. The Comets actually defended as a team as well as they have all season, but when you can't score it's enough to stay in it, but not enough to win it.
Disaster looks to strike twice in as many Saturday nights when the Comets visit Syracuse again tomorrow. It was 6-2 last week and is likely to be more of the same.
Lind, Gadjovich, Arseneau, Chatfield, and Hamilton, were once again injury scratches.
Corrado (1A)
Tom Sestito is also a Marlie, but is currently injured.
I rarely post in this thread but thanks to all who do as I read it frequently, often with frustration.
Had no idea Syracuse was Tampa's farm team. What a well run organization, best in the league. I was looking over their roster and saw Taylor Raddysh. He is six months older than Lind and Gadjovich but it just shows the difference of success. Raddysh has 40 points in 64 games with 16 goals. Gadjovich had 2 goals and 7 points in 37 games. Lind 3 goals and 11 points in 48 games. All three players were second round picks. Player development seems to be a big problem with the Nucks organization.
Had no idea Syracuse was Tampa's farm team. What a well run organization, best in the league. I was looking over their roster and saw Taylor Raddysh. He is six months older than Lind and Gadjovich but it just shows the difference of success. Raddysh has 40 points in 64 games with 16 goals. Gadjovich had 2 goals and 7 points in 37 games. Lind 3 goals and 11 points in 48 games. All three players were second round picks. Player development seems to be a big problem with the Nucks organization.
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
I don't think anyone can really fault Will Lockwood for avoiding a situation like this. Especially when given the opportunity to return to a good development program .like Michigan.
Have to agree...you look at that Tampa roster and realize how many members of that team, which is the runaway winner of the President's Trophy as the best in the NHL, spent some quality development time in Syracuse.
Utica is the place where the Canuck prospects basically go to die. Of course the bigger part of the problem is who they drafted in the first place, particularly in rounds 2-5.
bandwagonesque
I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
- Mar 5, 2014
- 7,141
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It doesn't resemble these things at all and ownership here has never done anything like the things you've cited.
Megaterio Llamas
el rey del mambo
bandwagonesque
I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
- Mar 5, 2014
- 7,141
- 5,450
You compared the Canucks' ownership to another set of owners and cited a bunch of zany/ill-advised things those other owners did, then failed to provide any examples of the Canucks' owners actually doing anything similar to any of the things you cited.
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