2018-19 Roster talk; Part two

[MacDonald4MVP]

Yeah, no problem.

Stuff like this:




I really value his shooting. Who else on the team can score like that? Konecny. Giroux, sometimes. But it's unique enough that I think it's worth something to us, especially when paired with his above average skating. Plus, remember back when he was PKing with Giroux? They looked just like the old Richards-Giroux pair that was so dangerous shorthanded. It felt like they created more scoring chances than they allowed on the PK.

What good is his shot if he can't get into position to score. Laughton is your typical tunnel vision player getting carried by the skill, not that there's anything wrong with it.

 

[Striiker]

What good is his shot if he can't get into position to use it.

He seemed to find a way to use it in those examples.

And he'd be able to do so more consistently if he wasn't playing 10 minutes per night with horrific hockey players all year.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

He seemed to find a way to use it in those examples.

And he'd be able to do so more consistently if he wasn't playing 10 minutes per night with horrific hockey players all year.

If he gets more usage he also won't be facing 4th line competition.

 

[Striiker]

If he gets more usage he also won't be facing 4th line competition.

Which would be offset by the massive upgrade in linemates.

 

[mja]

Yeah, I feel like Laughton has quite a bit more to give. I'm hoping he's given a shot at playing up in the line-up next season. Wouldn't be averse to him getting some PP2 time.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Which would be offset by the massive upgrade in linemates.

Like who? Third line of Lindblom/Raffl Laughton Simmonds doesn't make me gird my loins.

 

[Rebels57]

Like who? Third line of Lindblom/Raffl Laughton Simmonds doesn't make me gird my loins.

I believe it would make you gird your loans if I understand that expression correctly.

 

[Striiker]

Like who? Third line of Lindblom/Raffl Laughton Simmonds doesn't make me gird my loins.

I'm not saying him moving up the lineup will/should happen.

I'm saying IF it did, it would be easier to see what he can actually do. We have the flashes of ability, but only because there wasn't an opportunity for anything more than that.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The 16th ranked PP would also take a hit, as they were tied for third most SH goals given up in the league. It's always been bizarre to me that this isn't factored into special teams rankings.

PP2 only scoring 1 goal and giving up 4 didn't help things.

 

[sa cyred]

Yeah, no problem.

Stuff like this:




I really value his shooting. Who else on the team can score like that? Konecny. Giroux, sometimes. But it's unique enough that I think it's worth something to us, especially when paired with his above average skating. Plus, remember back when he was PKing with Giroux? They looked just like the old Richards-Giroux pair that was so dangerous shorthanded. It felt like they created more scoring chances than they allowed on the PK.

Fair enough. I guess his shot isn't that bad and definitely a plus. I guess with all the top end forward talent coming in which "could" bring multiple assets to the team, I see Laughton more replaceable (more so on the 3rd line). Like personally, on the 4th line, I think someone like Raffl brings more value even though his shot isn't as good. Realistically, I think he is perfectly fine as a winger on the 4th line. He does bring tenacity which is great and the shot and isn't someone who brings nothing (like Lehtera, VDV, etc). For me though, being on the 3rd line needs to be abit more, especially since the sense/awareness in the offensive zone isn't very strong.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I'm not saying him moving up the lineup will/should happen.

I'm saying IF it did, it would be easier to see what he can actually do. We have the flashes of ability, but only because there wasn't an opportunity for anything more than that.

I'm not saying his production won't increase, just that he won't turn into a better player. Sure there are players that are capable of elevating their linemates, but let them enable top talent instead of likes of Laughton. To me Laughton is very much like simmonds. Simmonds has a decent shot, but he only scores on pp or off the rush. How do you see Laughton as a player?

 

[mja]

In a good year, with the right usage, I could easily see Laughton pop in 15-20 goals. That's not negligible.

 

[mja]

In a good year, with the right usage, I could easily see Laughton pop in 15-20 goals. That's not negligible.

 

[Striiker]

I'm not saying his production won't increase, just that he won't turn into a better player. Sure there are players that are capable of elevating their linemates, but let them enable top talent instead of likes of Laughton. To me Laughton is very much like simmonds. Simmonds has a decent shot, but he only scores on pp or off the rush. How do you see Laughton as a player?

I see him as a specific type of tool that can be helpful in the right situation. He isn't going to magically improve his ability, but with different usage the current level of ability can provide us with more value than we're currently getting.

I don't mind him as a 4C or even as a 3LW in the event on an injury (since obviously Giroux, JVR, and Lindblom are ahead of him). You'll never ask him to carry a top 3 line, but if you put him with a good center then all you need out of him is to fire away shots. For a bottom 6 player, we could do much worse.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

In a good year, with the right usage, I could easily see Laughton pop in 15-20 goals. That's not negligible.

Raffl started the year on 4th line without a sniff of power play time and he popped 13.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I see him as a specific type of tool that can be helpful in the right situation. He isn't going to magically improve his ability, but with different usage the current level of ability can provide us with more value than we're currently getting.

I don't mind him as a 4C or even as a 3LW in the event on an injury (since obviously Giroux, JVR, and Lindblom are ahead of him). You'll never ask him to carry a top 3 line, but if you put him with a good center then all you need out of him is to fire away shots. For a bottom 6 player, we could do much worse.

DH said the same thing about weise and couts lol. But then again if we had couts elevating some grinder, would we even make the playoffs? Did Jake enable Bellamers skill into a better scoring? Should he do the same for Laughton and we watch Patrick and Simmonds get reunited?

 

[Larry44]

Lindblom - Laughton - Simmonds
Raffl - Weal/Vorobyev - Weal/NAK

Seems much better than

Lindblom - Weal - Simmonds
Laughton - Vorobyev - Raffl

I don't see Frost making the team, but he the key is that with those 6 as the bottom six, we still have Weise, Lehtera and Leier in the mix. Weal I have no use for. He stinks.

I also think many of us would like to see NAK and Vecchione get a look this year too, to see what they have before they get surpassed by the coming wave of 'better' wing prospects like Allison, Laczynski, Ratcliffe, Kase, Laberge, Bunnaman, Twarynski... etc.

Forget about signing crap like Shore, we need to jettison Weal, Weise and Lehtera, fast, even if it means eating salary, to make room for some of the younger blood.

Lindblom-Laughton-Simmonds (until he's dealt)
Raffl-Vorobyev-Aube-Kubel
Spares: Leier, Vecchione.

 

[deadhead]

Weal as 3C has more upside than Laughton, Weal has the skills to be a playmaker on offense, and with Lindblom and Simmonds would be in more of a Giroux role and his size wouldn't be as much of an issue - but his size and average skating could be a liability on defense. 3C is a better fit for him than the 4th line, b/c he really doesn't have 4th line skills, like Cousins, he's a tweener in that role, except he's not as feisty as Cousins.

If Frost and Vorobyev don't make the team, I can live with Laughton at 4C with Raffl and NAK, that would be a heck of a checking line that could harass scoring lines and bring a lot of energy. I'd still expect Vorobyev to be up by January.

And that's Ron's dilemma, with Vorobyev's ETA of January or sooner, and Frost at worst starting in 2019-20, it's hard to figure out what you should do in the meantime. Weal, Laughton, Lehtera, MV, Bardreau - not a lot of good options there - Rubtsov may be a year away or longer. The only real alternative would be a trade for a veteran with 1-2 years left on his contract - but you don't want to spend a lot for a short-term fix.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I don't really get the people who think Weal stinks. He really doesn't. He was the 6th most productive forward on the team at 5v5. He had more p/60 than Simmonds, Raffl, Lindblom, Laughton, Filppula. His possession stats are average, and he also had a fairly low PDO this year. He isn't great, but he is passable in a bottom-6 role. Weal won't be and shouldn't be a longterm part of the team, but people who group him with Lethera, Weise and Filppula are wrong.

 

[CS]

In a good year, with the right usage, I could easily see Laughton pop in 15-20 goals. That's not negligible.

Which Weal might do...and Vorobyev won't do. Frost could likely do it as well all things considered.

But Laughton also brings speed, forechecking, and some defensive ability. With Lindblom on his left that's a pretty solid proposition.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Which Weal might do...and Vorobyev won't do. Frost could likely do it as well all things considered.

But Laughton also brings speed, forechecking, and some defensive ability. With Lindblom on his left that's a pretty solid proposition.

There's more to hockey than scoring goals. Case in point one Sean Couturier.

 

[CS]

There's more to hockey than scoring goals. Case in point one Sean Couturier.

Also case in point, Scott Laughton...

Your point?

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Also case in point, Scott Laughton...

Your point?

Sorry should have clarified. The gist of it is that even if Vorobyev won't have as many goals as Laughton it won't automatically make him a lesser player. However I don't even think he will make flyers this year so it's a moot point.

 

[Tripod]

Sorry should have clarified. The gist of it is that even if Vorobyev won't have as many goals as Laughton it won't automatically make him a lesser player. However I don't even think he will make flyers this year so it's a moot point.

 

[CS]

Sorry should have clarified. The gist of it is that even if Vorobyev won't have as many goals as Laughton it won't automatically make him a lesser player. However I don't even think he will make flyers this year so it's a moot point.

Ah, but I also don't think Vorobyev would be a better option defensively right now either...

So if he's not going to produce more, and he's not going to prevent more goals against, why would you put him there? It remains to be seen in camp I guess, but I dont classify Vorobyev as the better NHLer offensively or defensively right now.

That could change in the future, but now...no.

As for your point about it being moot, it seems moot because you feel he wont be in the NHL...and you feel he won't be in the NHL because you assume Hextall and Hakstol will think Laughton is the better option...because he likely would be if they go with him........well I guess it's better not to use Hakstols ideas as a barometer but you get my gist.