2018-19 Roster Talk: Part One

[Flyers Faithful]

Weise had 1 good half season, not like he was that welcomed, i thought hed be better than he has been but i hated the contract from jump street

I’m sure everyone hated the contract from the start but that’s what happens in UFA

 

[Flyers Faithful]

Hextall is part of the reason Hextall hasn't had cap space until this summer.

I agree with you there, which is why I think he’ll do something this summer since he does have all this space...unless he takes a few cap dumps at the draft

 

[FLYguy3911]

Has @FLYguy3911 lost his source??!!?? I feel like you need to break some news or give us anything like you use to!

I don’t hear much in the offseason.

 

[Striiker]

I’m sure everyone hated the contract from the start but that’s what happens in UFA

Wrong
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/flyers-sign-dale-weise-4-x-2-35.2100777/

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Wrong
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/flyers-sign-dale-weise-4-x-2-35.2100777/

Once people found out what the contract actually was, the opinions took quite a turn.

 

[kelmitchell]

Once people found out what the contract actually was, the opinions took quite a turn.

I wont lie, i was kind of happy, i thought hed really help our bottom 6, buuuuuut i hated that damn contract i said too much for too long lol

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I wont lie, i was kind of happy, i thought hed really help our bottom 6, buuuuuut i hated that damn contract i said too much for too long lol

When it was first announced that the Flyers were signing him, I thought it was fine -- that he'd just be replacing White and they preferred Weise. Then when the contract was announced I and many others changed tunes immediately and called the signing terrible.

There's a different July 1 thread where you can see the change in opinions once the terms were announced.

Edit: You can see some of the opinions start to change here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...gn-dale-weise-and-boyd-gordon.2095363/page-25

 

[Lindberg]

Wrong
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/flyers-sign-dale-weise-4-x-2-35.2100777/

I'd love to know what those 12 or so GMs saw in Weise to be trying to court him. I didn't watch him on other teams but I don't see anything about Weise that would make me think he's a guy who can score 10+ ES goals.

 

[Magua]

I mean, sure, Riley Nash is an option. He's 29 years old coming off a career year of 15 goals. A year he just happened to have a PDO over 100 and the following 4 players as his most common linemates 5v5... Backes, Heinen, Pastrnak, and Marchand. But as you said, expect regression.

Before that his goal totals in previous years were 7, 8, 9, and 10. And at a glance his fancy stats aren't thrilling either.

I wouldn't sign him if this season's numbers set the bar. If you assumed he was a 30-35 point good defensive 3C and PKer for 2 years at acceptable cost, I think it would be far from the worst avenue to pursue. If the term gets longer than that, no thanks. But his stats were just as good apart from Pasta and Marchand (not really sure Backes and Heinen are that good to think they elevated him). He also typically grades out better by scoring chances and xG. At worst, he's a player who can be above water.

I was also putting myself in the Flyers head, where Derek Ryan would surprise me as a small, very non-heavy player. But he's really good at face-offs, so he's like 1/3 of the way there for the Flyers evaluating. I'm also more concerned about 3C than 4C. I expect the Flyers are too.

Beagle sucks 5v5. That's a concern to me. It's pretty hard to make the 4th line worse at ES than some they've iced and yet that might be one of the few options.

He'd be a worse signing than Gordon by a mile simply because of cost/term. I'm not paying that much for a PK specialist.

On a scale of Lehtera to Gordon, how surprised would you be if I told you Beagle's PK stats are just as bad as his 5v5 stats?

He was 4th this year among forwards in PK ice time. Among the 41 players with >150 PK minutes this past season, he was 4th worst in shots against/60 on the PK. 9th worst in goals against/60. Dead last in scoring chances against/60. My heart is aflutter.

The attractive thing about Ryan is that you might be able to get him for something like 2 years, $6-7 million. Whereas Bozak might be looking for 4 years, $16-18 million, what with his longer track record and all.

With how close guys like Vorobyev and Frost are, i'd much rather have Ryan for 2 years than Bozak for 4.

IIRC, Carolina fans were lamenting the fact that Ryan was underused last season too.

Bozak will get too much term for us, though he'd be a fine fit, maybe the best mid-cost fit.

I also think you could get Derek Ryan for less $$ than that; he might be more of a gamble, but he'd be a cheap one. Like I said, a savvy analytics team might go in on him. But I think there's enough skepticism, right or wrong, with him to lower cost. And I'm pretty sure Carolina fans lamented that Ryan was overused -- way overused. That he was Bill Peters' pet back to juniors was a thing. Canes fans really don't like him, as I said, and seemingly would be elated to not have him back.

 

[hatcher]

Weise will bounce back. He needs to be pushed in the gym and pushed on the ice till there's nothing left then you'll have a machine.

 

[Ruck Over]

I'd love to know what those 12 or so GMs saw in Weise to be trying to court him. I didn't watch him on other teams but I don't see anything about Weise that would make me think he's a guy who can score 10+ ES goals.

Something, something, watched pots never boil. He had a good partial season in Montreal where he had no pressure and low stakes, and he rightfully took advantage of them. He's been around, so the name wasn't shocking to hear, and he did enough heavy/physical/fighting things enough to make folks believe in the intangibles he brought to the game. If he had 12 teams scouting/courting him, that's an easily identifiable 12 poor NHL scouting departments/video gurus.

 

[Striiker]

I'd love to know what those 12 or so GMs saw in Weise to be trying to court him. I didn't watch him on other teams but I don't see anything about Weise that would make me think he's a guy who can score 10+ ES goals.

I think they saw him as a Raffl-type player.

Can play on different lines, isn't much of a scorer, but if put with good players can at least be semi-useful and shove in some grimy goals. Then you put him back in the bottom 6 and he's mostly invisible but doesn't screw you over either.

I mean, even outside of the initial positive reactions on here, even the main board thread was majorly positive from other teams fans... which is really rare. So I guess the GM's saw the same thing those guys saw. I personally didn't have much of an opinion on him at first, since I hadn't seen him play enough to be sure of any judgement, so I just trusted what post other people were saying.

Oh well... he sucks, but if it wasn't for his sudden magical scoring at the end of last year we wouldn't have finished 13th and won the lottery to get Patrick... so I guess it's a win in the end.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Here's a Carolina blogger's analysis of Derek Ryan. Shows that Corsi isn't the whole story with him: About Last Season: Derek Ryan Performance Review and Grade

 

[Striiker]

Once people found out what the contract actually was, the opinions took quite a turn.

Not really. If you look at that link it shows that people were fine with it. The general sentiment was "a bit too long but it's ok".

 

[Lindberg]

Its just a bit baffling for me. He's a guy who had one good long streak in about a decade of playing in the NHL and he gets a four year contract? The contract didn't hurt Hextall too much in the end since we weren't contenders or buyers really at the time. I can't remember the cap space or lack of cap space the Flyers had but he seemed like a guy you'd throw more money at with less term to see what he can do.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Weise will bounce back. He needs to be pushed in the gym and pushed on the ice till there's nothing left then you'll have a machine.

He’s down but not out.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

On a scale of Lehtera to Gordon, how surprised would you be if I told you Beagle's PK stats are just as bad as his 5v5 stats?

He was 4th this year among forwards in PK ice time. Among the 41 players with >150 PK minutes this past season, he was 4th worst in shots against/60 on the PK. 9th worst in goals against/60. Dead last in scoring chances against/60. My heart is aflutter.

This is exactly what I deserve for defaulting to a narrative and not checking my work on even something as small as a message board post. Thanks for the correction. Now let’s hope we don’t have cause to care about these numbers ever again.

 

[Deadpool8812]

I agree with you there, which is why I think he’ll do something this summer since he does have all this space...unless he takes a few cap dumps at the draft

He needs that cap space for next summer though when a few of our young guys will need raises, namely Provorov who will get paid

 

[CapnZin]

What's more likely is that Hagg plays over Myers and a trash veteran 7D is signed that can play the Left, fill in for injuries, and make Haks pants tight. Someone like Brandon Manning.

Oh my I forgot about the HAGG.

 

[Lindberg]

I don't think Hagg is playing over Myers. Hextall wants another RD on the back end. I think Ghost playing his off-side well has eased some of that concern but I still think he wants more righties on the back end.

 

[Flyers Faithful]

He needs that cap space for next summer though when a few of our young guys will need raises, namely Provorov who will get paid

There will still be plenty leftover

 

[Magua]

Weise will bounce back. He needs to be pushed in the gym and pushed on the ice till there's nothing left then you'll have a machine.

There's an old expression, hatcher: you can lead a horse to the gym and to the ice, but you can't make it a good hockey player.

Also, if they did push him till there's nothing left.......does that include his contract?

 

[hatcher]

There's an old expression, hatcher: you can lead a horse to the gym and to the ice, but you can't make it a good hockey player.

Also, if they did push him till there's nothing left.......does that include his contract?

he can play with more attitude and better then last year forsure and we have seen it on other teams. Everyone that leaves philly gets better and we stay the same boring way. Wonder whats up with that.

 

[Rebels57]

I wouldn't sign him if this season's numbers set the bar. If you assumed he was a 30-35 point good defensive 3C and PKer for 2 years at acceptable cost, I think it would be far from the worst avenue to pursue. If the term gets longer than that, no thanks. But his stats were just as good apart from Pasta and Marchand (not really sure Backes and Heinen are that good to think they elevated him). He also typically grades out better by scoring chances and xG. At worst, he's a player who can be above water.

I was also putting myself in the Flyers head, where Derek Ryan would surprise me as a small, very non-heavy player. But he's really good at face-offs, so he's like 1/3 of the way there for the Flyers evaluating. I'm also more concerned about 3C than 4C. I expect the Flyers are too.



On a scale of Lehtera to Gordon, how surprised would you be if I told you Beagle's PK stats are just as bad as his 5v5 stats?

He was 4th this year among forwards in PK ice time. Among the 41 players with >150 PK minutes this past season, he was 4th worst in shots against/60 on the PK. 9th worst in goals against/60. Dead last in scoring chances against/60. My heart is aflutter.




Bozak will get too much term for us, though he'd be a fine fit, maybe the best mid-cost fit.

I also think you could get Derek Ryan for less $$ than that; he might be more of a gamble, but he'd be a cheap one. Like I said, a savvy analytics team might go in on him. But I think there's enough skepticism, right or wrong, with him to lower cost. And I'm pretty sure Carolina fans lamented that Ryan was overused -- way overused. That he was Bill Peters' pet back to juniors was a thing. Canes fans really don't like him, as I said, and seemingly would be elated to not have him back.

In doing some research, it seems like Canes fans felt like Ryan was dragging down Skinner and Williams when the trio was together. I mean, those two do deserve a better Center than Ryan.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Everyone that leaves philly gets better and we stay the same boring way. Wonder whats up with that.