Speculation: 2018-19 Roster Discussion Part I

[Sharksfan83]

I love Timo mainly because of the hate he got here when he was first drafted, and also now the comparisons still ongoing. He can't help where he was drafted, but he is turning into a very very good player. I for one as a Sharks fan, will just take what we got and not keep ranting on the "What ifs", and what we got was an elite power forward who keeps getting better and better.

 

[tiburon12]

I'm not liking Kane with Pavelski and Labanc. I much preferred his game playing with the Finns, but that line has been working well with Sorensen. It would be worth experimenting with that again. Kane just seems to be leading the rush a lot and Pavs/Labanc are not keeping up, leading to Kane breaking into the zone 1v3 and having no options.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I'm not liking Kane with Pavelski and Labanc. I much preferred his game playing with the Finns, but that line has been working well with Sorensen. It would be worth experimenting with that again. Kane just seems to be leading the rush a lot and Pavs/Labanc are not keeping up, leading to Kane breaking into the zone 1v3 and having no options.

Kane definitely isn’t the problem on that line but I agree their styles don’t mesh great either.

 

[tiburon12]

Kane definitely isn’t the problem on that line but I agree their styles don’t mesh great either.

Yea, definitely not the problem, didn't intend to imply that.

 

[Hinterland]

Hasn't been posted here I guess?

Two more to go

 

[haulinbass]

Barzal can stay right where he is. This happens to him regularly while Timo didn't get run over like that even once...at least not that I remember. Barzal has an intriguing skillset but about as high of an IQ as the bread I ate this morning. If you watch him closesly, he's a selfish player who tries to do everything alone. He's not aware of where his opponents and teammates are and therefore turns the puck over pretty often. Trotz apparently tried to talk some sense into him but it hasn't worked so far. Barzal also still sucks defensively and in terms of faceoffs. He could be a star but he thinks he's already one and doesn't need to work on anything or play with his teammates. Even if Barzal would be any better than Meier I'd still take the hard worker over the spoiled brat every day of the week. Like I mentioned above I wouldn't hold my breath for Barzal to ever mature. Difficult to change a caracter.

Wow... Please post links to support your claims that he doesn't work on anything, Trotz attempting to talk sense into him, and that he is a spoiled brat. I mean seriously, this is the first I heard of this so you must be the only one with inside information.

You seem like someone who watched him for two shifts, seen something bad and now form your opinions around that. Actually, you probably haven't even seen him outside of that Youtube video.

Ok so let me ask you something considering one of your biggest claims is that he is selfish and isn't aware of his teammates, etc. How did he get 72 assists in the last 92 games if thats how he played the game... I mean he is legit one of the best playermakers in the entire game right now.

Barzal is an extremely high IQ player who works his ass off. I have followed this kid since he played for the Seattle Thunderbirds. You also just don't have the ability to understand Barzals D game. He plays defenisvly like Datsyuk did. He isn't your typical shadow the other teams top player every inch of the ice and wear him down. He is the type of player that has the puck most of the time and when he doesn't he is a sneaky theif. You never know when Barzal is going to come out of nowhere read a play and be going back the other way with numbers. He is very dangerous without the puck. Don't forget Datsyuk won a Selke and I have never seen a player more similar to Datsyuk both offensively and defensively before. Barzal has actually said that Datsyuk is his favorite player and he studies him a lot. Which brings another point, Barzal is known to spend as much time studying the game as anyone in the league.

You sound like your the one who is some spoiled little brat who is extremely jealous.

 

[LeftHeartInSF]

I'm not liking Kane with Pavelski and Labanc. I much preferred his game playing with the Finns, but that line has been working well with Sorensen. It would be worth experimenting with that again. Kane just seems to be leading the rush a lot and Pavs/Labanc are not keeping up, leading to Kane breaking into the zone 1v3 and having no options.

I kinda want to see a line of Hertl centering Kane and Meier...is this crazy?

 

[NiWa]

I would definitely like the idea of shopping Labanc for another forward. He just doesn't bring much at all at even strength and is too slow. Could also see us shopping Braun at the deadline but he has been playing very well of late.

While I can see why you'd want that, what kind of return would you expect given his current range of performances altering between Jekyll & Hyde?

Personally, I'd love if we keep him and he'd continue to work on expanding his skill set. His passing is elite, he just needs to keep working on
- playing on the rush
- quicker release on his shot
- evaluating ahead of time (for quicker decision making)

 

[Jargon]

While I can see why you'd want that, what kind of return would you expect given his current range of performances altering between Jekyll & Hyde?

Personally, I'd love if we keep him and he'd continue to work on expanding his skill set. His passing is elite, he just needs to keep working on
- playing on the rush
- quicker release on his shot
- evaluating ahead of time (for quicker decision making)

Yeah, I’d trade him for a young star player (with a bunch thrown in), or like a signed Panarin (ahaha can’t afford) — but I think he’s got sky high potential.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I kinda want to see a line of Hertl centering Kane and Meier...is this crazy?

Not sure if that line would work or not but I will say I have been impressed by some of Selfish Kane's passing this year. He has done a good job setting up others.

 

[hohosaregood]

I kinda want to see a line of Hertl centering Kane and Meier...is this crazy?

Forechecking PWF-Playmaking PWF-Shooting PWF

I like it.

 

[matt trick]

I kinda want to see a line of Hertl centering Kane and Meier...is this crazy?

If you were playing a team with one elite D pair like the Kings could be interesting to have those three out there throwing beef around for 20 minutes a night.

I definitely get the Labanc criticism. I feel like he has a 50% chance of not getting any better- being that talented forward who lacks NHL physical abilities (size, speed, strength) to be a legit top 6 forward, while not being strong enough defensively to fit in the bottom 6. For the other 50% I see the potential of a 25/35/60 first line playmaker.

I think Deboer is doing a nice job of handling him so far. A second PP of Karlsson/Burns-Thornton-Kane-Labanc-Meier is pretty nice.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Since the start of last season, LaBanc has 35 assists. Burns and Pavelski are the only Sharks who have more. His 47 points in that time frame are 6th on the team; only Meier, Hertl, Pavelski, Couture, and Burns have more.

I get that he makes some mistakes, I get that he’s inconsistent, but the fact of the matter is that he is producing tangible results for this team right now. I also think DeBoer is too quick to demote him when the guy he is going to bring up (Melker) isn’t going to make anything better.

 

[Hinterland]

Wow... Please post links to support your claims that he doesn't work on anything, Trotz attempting to talk sense into him, and that he is a spoiled brat. I mean seriously, this is the first I heard of this so you must be the only one with inside information.

You seem like someone who watched him for two shifts, seen something bad and now form your opinions around that. Actually, you probably haven't even seen him outside of that Youtube video.

Ok so let me ask you something considering one of your biggest claims is that he is selfish and isn't aware of his teammates, etc. How did he get 72 assists in the last 92 games if thats how he played the game... I mean he is legit one of the best playermakers in the entire game right now.

Barzal is an extremely high IQ player who works his ass off. I have followed this kid since he played for the Seattle Thunderbirds. You also just don't have the ability to understand Barzals D game. He plays defenisvly like Datsyuk did. He isn't your typical shadow the other teams top player every inch of the ice and wear him down. He is the type of player that has the puck most of the time and when he doesn't he is a sneaky theif. You never know when Barzal is going to come out of nowhere read a play and be going back the other way with numbers. He is very dangerous without the puck. Don't forget Datsyuk won a Selke and I have never seen a player more similar to Datsyuk both offensively and defensively before. Barzal has actually said that Datsyuk is his favorite player and he studies him a lot. Which brings another point, Barzal is known to spend as much time studying the game as anyone in the league.

You sound like your the one who is some spoiled little brat who is extremely jealous.

Upset because Meier is currently outscoring Barzal? Is it you, Mathew?

Barzal thinks he's Datsyuk but he isn't. Not even close. Datsyuk never received 75% offensive zone starts and he was never -7. Not once all career long. Barzal sucks in every area. Talent is there but his game is far off because of his ignorant personality. Trotz called out his top6 numerous times already. He called out Barzal in particular for holding onto the puck for too long and trying to do too much on his own. You'd know about that if you actually followed the Isles the way you're making it sound. Calling Barzal a high IQ player is about the hottest take I've read on hfboards over all the years
You don't need much of an IQ to set up a few PP-goals and that's basically all Barzal is good for. It's working out for him because of his excellent hands and not because of him being the mastermind you want him to be. The exact opposite is the case. He's absolutely lost when there's less time and space.

 

[LeeIFBB]

Robbie Schremp 2.0

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The problem with Labanc with Kane and Pavelski is that he doesn't win races or board battles enough to make them effective. That's what those two need with them in order to get the most out of them. It's why Donskoi worked out pretty well with them. I think Hertl would do well with them but I don't know if I'd want to split him and Couture. Nor do I know if I want to split Suomela and Donskoi. If I was forced to choose, I'd probably split Couture and Hertl because I think Meier-Couture-Labanc can work since Meier can win board battles pretty effectively while not needing to be the playmaker in that spot like Hertl would need to be with Kane and Pavs.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The problem with Labanc with Kane and Pavelski is that he doesn't win races or board battles enough to make them effective. That's what those two need with them in order to get the most out of them. It's why Donskoi worked out pretty well with them. I think Hertl would do well with them but I don't know if I'd want to split him and Couture. Nor do I know if I want to split Suomela and Donskoi. If I was forced to choose, I'd probably split Couture and Hertl because I think Meier-Couture-Labanc can work since Meier can win board battles pretty effectively while not needing to be the playmaker in that spot like Hertl would need to be with Kane and Pavs.

I just don't want to break the Sorenson-Shovels-Donkey line because they have looked dominant almost every time they are on the ice. But I think if we are going with Jumbo-Pavs again, the Labanc issue may sort itself out automatically at the cost of breaking up that 3rd line.

Meier-Thornton-Pavs
Hertl-Couture-Labanc
Kane-Shovels-Donkey
Sorenson-Chartier-Goodrow

Labanc should (and has) worked with Hertl and Couture because they are solid defensively and average-fast skaters. Labanc and Pavs on the same line just makes it too slow. I am ignoring Melker for now though he probably replaces Chartier or Goodrow on the 4th line.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I just don't want to break the Sorenson-Shovels-Donkey line because they have looked dominant almost every time they are on the ice. But I think if we are going with Jumbo-Pavs again, the Labanc issue may sort itself out automatically at the cost of breaking up that 3rd line.

Meier-Thornton-Pavs
Hertl-Couture-Labanc
Kane-Shovels-Donkey
Sorenson-Chartier-Goodrow

Labanc should (and has) worked with Hertl and Couture because they are solid defensively and average-fast skaters. Labanc and Pavs on the same line just makes it too slow. I am ignoring Melker for now though he probably replaces Chartier or Goodrow on the 4th line.

I don't know. The way Labanc is playing and the fact that DeBoer has already sent him a message by playing him shifts on the 4th line, Labanc may just end up there. I mean, it's hard to justify breaking up Couture-Hertl-Meier after they had a hand in every goal they scored in Anaheim not even including one taken off the board. If Thornton is back then I'd probably go back to Kane-Thornton-Pavelski, keep the other two lines the same, and put Labanc on the 4th line with Goodrow and Chartier.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I don't know. The way Labanc is playing and the fact that DeBoer has already sent him a message by playing him shifts on the 4th line, Labanc may just end up there. I mean, it's hard to justify breaking up Couture-Hertl-Meier after they had a hand in every goal they scored in Anaheim not even including one taken off the board. If Thornton is back then I'd probably go back to Kane-Thornton-Pavelski, keep the other two lines the same, and put Labanc on the 4th line with Goodrow and Chartier.

I have zero objections to putting Labanc on the 4th line but man if he gets matched up against other teams 1st lines on the road, we are so f***ed.

 

[Sysreq]

I haven’t been liking Labanc’s game recently. He’s been making a lot of bad turnovers and losing battles.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I have zero objections to putting Labanc on the 4th line but man if he gets matched up against other teams 1st lines on the road, we are so ****ed.

I don't think it's so bad so long as he's out there with some real possession players. If Jumbo's out there and playing normal, Labanc's weaknesses can be masked. Same would be true if he's with Hertl. Otherwise, you're 4th lining him giving him limited minutes and making him a PP specialist. But he needs to step it up because he's a trade chip if he continues to be inconsistent. I mean, the team shouldn't have a problem running with a top six next year of Couture-Hertl-Meier and Kane-Suomela-Donskoi and rework the 3rd line based on cap space and players coming up. Like that Suomela-Donskoi pairing has been dominant with the exception of the Carolina game. I'd be very confident giving those two second line duties next year if they keep this up for at least most of this season.

 

[Hinterland]

The problem with Labanc with Kane and Pavelski is that he doesn't win races or board battles enough to make them effective. That's what those two need with them in order to get the most out of them. It's why Donskoi worked out pretty well with them. I think Hertl would do well with them but I don't know if I'd want to split him and Couture. Nor do I know if I want to split Suomela and Donskoi. If I was forced to choose, I'd probably split Couture and Hertl because I think Meier-Couture-Labanc can work since Meier can win board battles pretty effectively while not needing to be the playmaker in that spot like Hertl would need to be with Kane and Pavs.

You can easily break up Hertl/Couture but not Hertl/Meier. Hertl is the ideal linemate for Meier because he's one of maybe a handful guys leaguewide who can hold onto the puck like Meier can. When they're on the ice they have the puck all the time and that's why they're scoring. Meier needs another possession monster to play with. Jumbo and Donskoi would be valuable options but they're not quite as dominant as Hertl. Last season I asked for Meier to play with Hertl all the time and it didn't happen. Separating them now would be a mistake I think.

 

[Hinterland]

The problem with Labanc with Kane and Pavelski is that he doesn't win races or board battles enough to make them effective. That's what those two need with them in order to get the most out of them. It's why Donskoi worked out pretty well with them. I think Hertl would do well with them but I don't know if I'd want to split him and Couture. Nor do I know if I want to split Suomela and Donskoi. If I was forced to choose, I'd probably split Couture and Hertl because I think Meier-Couture-Labanc can work since Meier can win board battles pretty effectively while not needing to be the playmaker in that spot like Hertl would need to be with Kane and Pavs.

You can easily break up Hertl/Couture but not Hertl/Meier. Hertl is the ideal linemate for Meier because he's one of maybe a handful guys leaguewide who can hold onto the puck like Meier can. When they're on the ice they have the puck all the time and that's why they're scoring. Meier needs another possession monster to play with. Jumbo and Donskoi would be valuable options but they're not quite as dominant as Hertl. Last season I asked for Meier to play with Hertl all the time and it didn't happen. Separating them now would be a mistake I think.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You can easily break up Hertl/Couture but not Hertl/Meier. Hertl is the ideal linemate for Meier because he's one of maybe a handful guys leaguewide who can hold onto the puck like Meier can. When they're on the ice they have the puck all the time and that's why they're scoring. Meier needs another possession monster to play with. Jumbo and Donskoi would be valuable options but they're not quite as dominant as Hertl. Last season I asked for Meier to play with Hertl all the time and it didn't happen. Separating them now would be a mistake I think.

The problem with Meier and Hertl on their own at this point is going to be defensive responsibility. Couture being with Hertl allows them to share defensive responsibilities without it entirely falling on one or the other. In a Meier-Hertl-Labanc sort of setup, it would fall entirely on Hertl. Maybe he's capable of it but I think it would come at the cost of production because you'd also be asking him to win the board battles in the attacking zone. That's asking a lot out of a player. Personally, I just don't see Labanc as a good enough reason to break up Meier-Couture-Hertl nor break up Sorensen-Suomela-Donskoi. I'd put Labanc on the 4th line until he finds his game again or someone gets injured or someone falls off a cliff assuming Thornton is back. Until then, you're pretty much forced to do Labanc with Kane and Pavelski because Melker up there to punish Labanc is not going to work long term.

 

[haulinbass]

Upset because Meier is currently outscoring Barzal? Is it you, Mathew?

Barzal thinks he's Datsyuk but he isn't. Not even close. Datsyuk never received 75% offensive zone starts and he was never -7. Not once all career long. Barzal sucks in every area. Talent is there but his game is far off because of his ignorant personality. Trotz called out his top6 numerous times already. He called out Barzal in particular for holding onto the puck for too long and trying to do too much on his own. You'd know about that if you actually followed the Isles the way you're making it sound. Calling Barzal a high IQ player is about the hottest take I've read on hfboards over all the years
You don't need much of an IQ to set up a few PP-goals and that's basically all Barzal is good for. It's working out for him because of his excellent hands and not because of him being the mastermind you want him to be. The exact opposite is the case. He's absolutely lost when there's less time and space.

Being a Wings fan I have watched at least 85% of Datsyuks game throughout his entire career. Datsyuk never had to play with as bad of a team Barzal is currently stuck with. Datsyuk also was not in the NHL until his draft +4 season at which point he was sheltered with hall of fame vets like Brett Hull on his line.

Barzal is 21 years old in his second season centering NYI 1st line on a bad team. Maybe even you can manage to acknowledge that fact? I have absolutely nothing against Meier, I have actually followed him to a reasonable extent because I like him. He is a very good hockey player, but he will not accomplish a fraction of Barzal throughout his career.

As someone else tried to get through your head already which you completely ignored, Barzal scored 58 points last season outside of the PP. I expect that alone to be around Meiers career high season totals. Do you realize how few players score 58 none PP points per season in the NHL? Absolutely amazing how ignorant and blind you are regarding Barzal. Its like you have nightmares about him.

Of course Trotz called out the top six, the Islanders are once again brutal. Even if Trots did say Barzal is holding onto the puck to long, things like that get said about all players at times when things aren't going well for the team. Don't you think you are trying to stretch these comments like 100000 miles to far?

I'm done here, because its clear a conversation with you is going nowhere. But I won't forget to quote you in a couple years, maybe even at the end of this season when Barzal produces more than Meiers. Only because you truly deserve it.

Feel sorry that the Sharks fans have this guy lurking their forums...