Speculation: 2018-19 Roster Discussion #4 - It’s Getting Better All The Time (maybe)

[MIGs Dog]

Sends a bad message to the room when they fight and claw into playoff contention and get left hanging

Don't think so. You could argue it shows the GM has confidence in the current lineup.

What Minnesota did shows disrespect for the effort the players put forth as well as the fans.

 

[_Del_]

If the GM thinks this team without help was going anywhere in the playoffs, he should be shown the door.

 

[Prarievarg]

If the GM thinks this team without help was going anywhere in the playoffs, he should be shown the door.

I don't think Hoffman, Brassard, Zucker or Wennberg had made much difference in how far we'd advance in the playoffs anyway. This season is for internal growth imo. I wanted Zucker or Wennberg at the deadline, not strictly for this season though, so might as well bring someone in this summer.

 

[lanky]

Hayton or any college players won’t help more than Kempe can.

In hindsight Brassard would have helped but that’s only with the knowledge of this injury. Brassard isn’t very good anymore and I have more faith in Stick Nicky.

 

[Murf]

Chayka made his deadline move - he just made it months early. And it blew up in his face with a season ending injury. That doesn’t mean he has more cards to play.

We are in 10th place with a back up goalie, a rag tag bunch of scrappers and a black cloud following us around. Adding a rental at the deadline (pre stepan injury) would have been too high of a cost for too high of a risk. It would be nice to have a top center right now, but that is hindsight.

Sometimes the costs are too high. Sometimes the deal just isn’t there. I for one think JC did the right thing. He’s on house money, let’s see how long he can sit at the table.

 

[Heldig]

Sends a bad message to the room when they fight and claw into playoff contention and get left hanging

Disagree. It says the GM believes in the guys in the room AND that reinforcements are coming from within (Dvorak etc). A bad message was what St Louis did last year, trading Stastny while they were still in a playoff spot.

 

[_Del_]

I don't think Hoffman, Brassard, Zucker or Wennberg had made much difference in how far we'd advance in the playoffs anyway. This season is for internal growth imo. I wanted Zucker or Wennberg at the deadline, not strictly for this season though, so might as well bring someone in this summer.

Wennberg, Zucker, Burakovski were all available with term. could have taken a swing at a guy like Petan. Pearson moved cheap. None of those guys command much in return or would represent a big change of direction. The roster needs more talent.

Alternatively, if Panik isn't in the plans, he should have been gone if we're looking for internal growth and don't care about competitiveness down the stretch. We're lopsided budget-wise on the backend. Trading a defenseman in a hockey trade or for futures would have opened up flexibility in the offseason.

Brassard is just an easy target example because he went so cheap. Johansson went cheap, too.

I don't think they are a playoff team. Been pretty honest about it. I wouldn't have traded a bunch of bluechips for Hayes, for example, or any other rental. Would have been pretty disappointed in that route, too.

But if management did decide they were a playoff team, then I expect them to act accordingly.

We could have even done both options. Dumping Panik for assets bc he wasnt in the plans for next year. Trading off Goligosky to free up cash. Adding a guy for a push who also had term (Wennberg, Zucker, et al) for a boost this year and next, and picking up Brassard for a third (which we have two of, and probably could have gotten another of by dumping Panik or rearranging the blueline).

Instead we cleared a tiny amount of salary and watched the deadline with the most reasonable prices in memory drift by while we talked about the playoffs.

Put together a plan and then execute it.

This should be an "asset management" deadline. Just find good deals. If that's shipping a UFA we don't intend to resign for futures or other assets, fine. If that's adding a slightly overpaid second or thirdline winger for a reasonable price in futures, fine. If it's trading D for a forward, also fine.

 

[Jakey53]

John Chayka talked a lot about how valuable a playoff birth would be. The high value it had in multiple facets. This playoff run is clearly hugely valuable to the franchise in his eyes. Yet he sacrificed no assets of any kind on playoff insurance.

He showed that he’s inexperienced and or irresponsible and or over confident. Grown ups are supposed to take out insurance policies on their most important things. It’s how we live life as adults. John Chayka was too cheap too stupid or too cocky to pick up playoff insurance. Now he’s got himself in a whole heap of trouble.

It’s really inexcusable. The team has been decimated by injuries and he gave no consideration to the idea that this trend might continue? Couldn’t even peel off an extra third rounder he’s got just laying around anyway?

The general manager is doing a piss poor job of supporting and protecting his squad. He said he felt so loyal to this group that he couldn’t even go out and get them some help. Some insurance.

I’m getting fed up with watching boy wonder learn on the job. These growing pains have to stop.

It takes two teams to make a deal. We are not in the position to give up assets for a rental. We are a SC pretender.

If anything the team deserved an add

Who do you add and at what cost. We didn't have much to dangle to begin with. We can't be giving away draft picks at this time.

I can't believe there is this much fuss over Derick Brassard. Not to mention that Chayka said right from the start that he wasn't interested in rentals.

Exactly.

Sends a bad message to the room when they fight and claw into playoff contention and get left hanging

I doubt that very much.

What if Brassard wasn’t willing to waive NTC for AZ?

Beyond him there wasn’t anything else traded that we should have went for.

Bingo.

 

[Heldig]

Agree that there were players available for "cheap". Would have loved to see Petan get a shot in the desert (although he is a pure passer). Still, they ALL took some kind of asset in return. The Coyotes dont really have anyone to trade given the number of injuries.

 

[Mosby]

Wasn’t Petan on waivers this year?

 

[Jakey53]

I'm not even mad that he didn't add. But if you think the odds are so long that it doesn't make sense to add depth for futures because hoarding picks is more important, then why didn't we dump our unsigned UFA's, like Panik who I doubt is in their plans? We are sp damn wishy-washy. "We're going to rebuild and get younger and faster-- unless it might cost us points. Better load up with waiver fodder.". "We're happy with our group's battle this season, and the playoffs are too important to trade off UFAs for picks or prospects-- but we're not going to help them out at the deadline. Futures are more important "

I would have tried to trade Panik and KConn, but like I said earlier it takes two teams to make a trade, and in Panik's case, injuries to our other forwards may have been a factor why he wasn't traded. It's easy to sit on the couch and complain, but we have no idea what happened behind closed door at TTD, I'm happy we didn't blow assets for a rental.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Blowing a 3rd or a 4th means basically nothing. There's no reason to be hoarding them. At worse you get a Petan type who is still reasonably young and might fit in our system. Better than a 3rd this year that won't even turn into a player for 3-4 years MINIMUM, if ever.

 

[Heldig]

Wasn’t Petan on waivers this year?

No. Jets kept in the press box most of the season because he was on a one way deal.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Morgan wrote about this exact thing, article posted half an hour ago.

The Neutral Zone: Should the injury ravaged Coyotes have...

 

[Heldig]

Blowing a 3rd or a 4th means basically nothing. There's no reason to be hoarding them. At worse you get a Petan type who is still reasonably young and might fit in our system. Better than a 3rd this year that won't even turn into a player for 3-4 years MINIMUM, if ever.

I have been advocating for the Coyotes to trade for Petan most of the season. Maybe they look to sign him in the summer. He is an RFA and is going to look for a legit opportunity to play. He is not likely to get that in Toronto anymore than he did in Winnipeg.

He had a brilliant junior career in the Dub and was a star on the WJC Canada Gold medal team (wtih McDavid, Rheinhart, Domi...)

 

[lanky]

Petan has incredible vision and puck skills. His pace of play was a problem for the Jets, just as it would be for Tocchet.

 

[Prarievarg]

Sure, we could have moved stuff around at the TDL. I just don't think it's a major misstep not to do it. Talent wise we are closer to sellers than buyers. On the other hand I don't think it's a good idea to be selling off players when the team is working their asses off trying to squeak into the playoffs.

A third aint much for brassard, but that 3rd round could provide some flexibility should we want to rearrange our hand at draft day. And I'd rather have a great draft than a great TDL at this point.

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

Let's not forget that Brassard has played like total ass since he got traded to the Pens, especially this year. 11g/9a/20 points even though he's shooting an amazing 13.3% which is 2% above his career average. He sucks in the dot and his fancy stats make me wanna gouge my eyes out.

Sticky Nicky is 100% better than Brassard right now and honestly I might take Kempe at C over him too considering it seems to take forwards a month to figure out Tocchet's system anyway.

If you're gonna trade for somebody you have to be sure it's at the very minimum an upgrade on paper so you can justify it to the team that has been winning lately. The only player that seemed readily available that would actually fit our needs (C who gives more goals) were Duschene or Hayes and neither was ever happening. What would we be saying in 15 games if Brassard came in and produced like Jordan Weal?

 

[Dead Coyote]

I have been advocating for the Coyotes to trade for Petan most of the season. Maybe they look to sign him in the summer. He is an RFA and is going to look for a legit opportunity to play. He is not likely to get that in Toronto anymore than he did in Winnipeg.

He had a brilliant junior career in the Dub and was a star on the WJC Canada Gold medal team (wtih McDavid, Rheinhart, Domi...)

I've always liked Petan and he was honestly really good even if he is a pure passer. And I mean...we have some sniper types, so why not take a chance? It's extremely low risk high reward.

 

[cobra427]

Why would we want Brassard, he isn't a difference maker? He likely wouldn't wave his NTC anyway and we didn't know Stepan would get injured. Our TDL improvement comes from DVO/Grabner/Demers, pretty good additions and you know what you are getting. Richarson just came back, and look what happened Help from within in this case makes more sense.

Besides that, Chayka has already made enough trades, and we have had enough injuries. We don't need even more change with 20 games to go.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Besides that, Chayka has already made enough trades, and we have had enough injuries. We don't need even more change with 20 games to go.

You sound like Tocc, lol.

 

[slovakia18]

Gally is playing so well on the wing and Keller is awful defensively, moving either to C has to be a last resort. And Grabner is best as 3LW...with all the PK minutes and 3x3 minutes he can absorb.

I think not Grabner play one game more that season.

 

[rt]

Calling bullshit on the “likely wouldn’t waive”. He’s good buddies with Keith Yandle and Derek Stepan and played with Raanta. All of whom are likely to have good things to say about the org. The Yotes were one win behind the Avs who he did accept a trade to. The Coyotes were already extremely thin at C and upfront. He would be much more likely to play a prominent role here than in Colorado. Much more likely to get a contract extension here also. I bet he’d have been just fine coming to Phoenix.

 

[_Del_]

Why would we want Brassard, he isn't a difference maker?

We should have traded almost everybody for those third round picks we value more at the deadline then, because we don't have many difference makers.

 

[Jakey53]

Calling bull**** on the “likely wouldn’t waive”. He’s good buddies with Keith Yandle and Derek Stepan and played with Raanta. All of whom are likely to have good things to say about the org. The Yotes were one win behind the Avs who he did accept a trade to. The Coyotes were already extremely thin at C and upfront. He would be much more likely to play a prominent role here than in Colorado. Much more likely to get a contract extension here also. I bet he’d have been just fine coming to Phoenix.

We should have traded almost everybody for those third round picks we value more at the deadline then, because we don't have many difference makers.

When we have older players you complain that we should get younger, and then when we get younger, you want to get older. You guys b---- and moan no matter what the organization does.