League News: 2018-19 NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) Vol. 1

[um]

Ovechkin is my favourite player in NHL history. I think he's the best goalscorer ever and tied with Hull and Richard as the best winger to ever play after Howe. I appreciate him a lot.

while he's had years where he's perfomed below his 9.5 cap hit he's had far more years where he was worth much more than 9.5. You can't ignore the years where he was underpaid.

 

[Sam Spade]

Ovechkin is my favourite player in NHL history. I think he's the best goalscorer ever and tied with Hull and Richard as the best winger to ever play after Howe. I appreciate him a lot.

I know you do man, we are all on team Ovechkin here, well except maaco , that stuff isn't really even directed to you per se.

Anyone that knows my post history knows I will defend Ovechkin to the death because people, not you, just make shit up about him. Maybe I go too far sometimes. I'm sorry.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Sam Spade has his groove back!

 

[Empty Goal Net]

Sam Spade has his groove back!

mid-season form. no time off.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Caps Car!

 

[Hivemind]

Blues sign Patrick Maroon to a 1 year, $1.75M deal. They're rapidly running out of forward spots for Sanford. He's going to really have to battle to make that roster, even as a healthy scratch.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

His contract is value now.

I wouldn't say it was value in the darker years.

He was the highest paid player in the world between 2008-2016. He was only the best between 2008-2011.

So between 2012-2016 he was overpaid. Not by a lot and it didn't cause any problems but overpaid nonetheless.

Absolute hogwash. Do you realize how far ahead of everyone else he is in goals scored over the life of that contract? It's not remotely close.

 

[895]

Absolute hogwash. Do you realize how far ahead of everyone else he is in goals scored over the life of that contract? It's not remotely close.

Okay so which of these statements or logic do you have a problem with?

1) The best player in the league should be paid the highest. The second best player in the league should be paid the second highest.

2) If the highest paid player in the league is not the best player in the league, he's overpaid. (In the same way that if you buy a $100 bill for $101, you've overpaid)

3) Ovechkin was not the best player in the league between 2012-2016.

4) Ovechkin was the highest paid player in the league between 2012-2016.

5) Ovechkin was overpaid between 2012-2016.

It really has nothing to do with how many Hart trophies or goals he's scored. I am fully aware. You don't need to tell me.

 

[Portable Mink]

Do you seriously need explained to you that it doesn’t work like that.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Okay so which of these statements or logic do you have a problem with?

1) The best player in the league should be paid the highest. The second best player in the league should be paid the second highest.

2) If the highest paid player in the league is not the best player in the league, he's overpaid. (In the same way that if you buy a $100 bill for $101, you've overpaid)

3) Ovechkin was not the best player in the league between 2012-2016.

4) Ovechkin was the highest paid player in the league between 2012-2016.

5) Ovechkin was overpaid between 2012-2016.

It really has nothing to do with how many Hart trophies or goals he's scored. I am fully aware. You don't need to tell me.

I think you may just want to move on from this discussion/stance. If you want poeple to nod their heads, go to the mains with it. It’s not happening here (with good reason, IMO).

From where I sit, you are being far too simplistic. The nature of long term contracts in today’s pro sports world means the start of a contract is overpaid, while the end of it is underpaid. That’s how it rolls. Doesn’t matter the specific player.

If you want everyone to be paid year by year based on production, then that’s another conversation altogether. But that’s not the landscape. Ovechkin contract was fair to the team (beyond), good for the player, and easily underpaid over the course of it. He’d get 12m right now we’re he a UFA. I think it’s an easy argue to say he’d have gotten at least 9.5m in every single season of the contract, were he to have been a UFA in any of those years. Maybe not his one season of 32 goals....but each and every other one.

Ergo...his contract was a good value for the Caps. Pretty much every single year.

That’s just my opinion. Probably shared by just a few people on here? We will see if anyone agrees or not

 

[maacoshark]

I know you do man, we are all on team Ovechkin here, well except maaco , that stuff isn't really even directed to you per se.

Anyone that knows my post history knows I will defend Ovechkin to the death because people, not you, just make **** up about him. Maybe I go too far sometimes. I'm sorry.

Dont get me in this. I defend Ovechkin a lot. I didnt even like him early in his career but he has really changed his game the last 4 or 5 years and has really grown on me. I especially like when he is playing a physical game. He might nit be the best player in the league but he is easily the best goalscorer. I would even say he is the best scorer in the history of the NHL. Most if the other great scorers played in the no defense era. Ovi keeps putting up numbers in a defense first era and at a time when goaltenders have never been better.
The thing that amazes me the most is when he scores from his office. Everyone knows where he is and they know he is getting the puck and they still cant stop him.

 

[Sam Spade]

You just spent basically the entire last season, until the playoffs, getting in jabs on Ovechkin and how you think Backstrom is more important to the Caps and how Kopitar and Bergeron and Toews types are more important to their teams.

My personal favorite was this one:

 

[895]

I think you may just want to move on from this discussion/stance. If you want poeple to nod their heads, go to the mains with it. It’s not happening here (with good reason, IMO).

From where I sit, you are being far too simplistic. The nature of long term contracts in today’s pro sports world means the start of a contract is overpaid, while the end of it is underpaid. That’s how it rolls. Doesn’t matter the specific player.

If you want everyone to be paid year by year based on production, then that’s another conversation altogether. But that’s not the landscape. Ovechkin contract was fair to the team (beyond), good for the player, and easily underpaid over the course of it. He’d get 12m right now we’re he a UFA. I think it’s an easy argue to say he’d have gotten at least 9.5m in every single season of the contract, were he to have been a UFA in any of those years. Maybe not his one season of 32 goals....but each and every other one.

Ergo...his contract was a good value for the Caps. Pretty much every single year.

That’s just my opinion. Probably shared by just a few people on here? We will see if anyone agrees or not

Well obviously he'd have gotten more in UFA. That's not really the argument. Everyone gets more in UFA because it doesn't cost anything in trade assets.

Anyway I think this whole thing is a semantic argument anyway.

You guys think I'm bashing him or saying negative stuff about him when really I'm not. Every single player has had down seasons when they were overpaid for what they brought. Crosby too. Malkin too.

And I'm repeating for the third time, I have no problem with the contract at all. It's a good contract.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Ovechkin is underpaid at this point!

 

[Corby78]

This place is going crazy. -trade oshie, -buy out ovie, -bring in EK and panarin...... where am I?

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Okay so which of these statements or logic do you have a problem with?

1) The best player in the league should be paid the highest. The second best player in the league should be paid the second highest.

2) If the highest paid player in the league is not the best player in the league, he's overpaid. (In the same way that if you buy a $100 bill for $101, you've overpaid)

3) Ovechkin was not the best player in the league between 2012-2016.

4) Ovechkin was the highest paid player in the league between 2012-2016.

5) Ovechkin was overpaid between 2012-2016.

It really has nothing to do with how many Hart trophies or goals he's scored. I am fully aware. You don't need to tell me.

I disagree with all but #3 and #4. That's it.

1)Market factors, team needs, positional value, past accomplishments, future projection, and team control should determine how much a player is paid. "The best player in the league shoudl be paid the highest is a naive statement that ignores all nuance and reality.

2)See point 1. If the best player in the league is a defenseman that signs only through his RFA years, he's going to be paid less, (and should be paid less) than a top 5 center on a contract that eats UFA years for a combination of those reasons.

3) Still the most valuable to any franchise, but no, not the best player in the league.

4) Ok.

5) Nope. See points 1-3 above. He bought out UFA years. He had some of the best historical seasons of all time to earn the contract (and through the first several years). He was worth more to the Caps than any single player in the league was to their team (and yes, that includes Crosby) from a competitive and more importantly, financial standpoint.

 

[Sam Spade]

You guys wanna watch some NHL'ers playing hockey live right now, well here ya go:

Home

Link to watch is midway down the page on the right, it's a YouTube stream.

Not sure how many games will be broadcast but here is the schedule:

Schedule

Caps have three players Ness, Gersich (Velocity), Boyd (Walser):

Players

Kinda cool watching these guys play shinny.

p.s. I did all the work so none of you have to.

 

[895]

Hellebuyck signs 6x6.2

Considering Holtby has a Vezina, a Conn Smythe worthy run to a cup, will be UFA not RFA, and the cap will increase the next two years, Holtby getting 9M is very realistic. Probably won't be here though.

 

[Sam Spade]

Hellebuyck signs 6x6.2

Considering Holtby has a Vezina, a Conn Smythe worthy run to a cup, will be UFA not RFA, and the cap will increase the next two years, Holtby getting 9M is very realistic. Probably won't be here though.

And unless they are moving Samsonov it shouldn't be.

And no goalie is worth 9 mil per. For a top end guy I would say 6.5 - 7 at most.

Price's contract, which begins THIS season, was the beginning of the death of the Canadians.

 

[895]

And unless they are moving Samsonov it shouldn't be.

And no goalie is worth 9 mil per. For a top end guy I would say 6.5 - 7 at most.

Price's contract, which begins THIS season, was the beginning of the death of the Canadians.

I think you're still in a 2014 salary cap mindset. As a percentage of the cap, 9m in 2020 is only going to be 10-11% of the cap.

Kolzig's 5m in 2006 was 13% of the cap.

Lundqvist's 6.8m in 2008 was 13% of the cap. (This is not his current contract, which is bad. His first big one was definitely worthwhile)

Rinne's 7m in 2012 was 11% of the cap.

Bobrovsky's 7.4m in 2015 was 10% of the cap.

Price's 10m in 2018 is 14% of the cap.

None of those guys had a cup and Vezina at the time of signing.

9m for Holtby is not necessarily going to be a bad contract. But with Samsonov in the fold and others needing to be signed, it just doesn't make sense for us.

No top goalie is going to settle for 7m in a 90m cap world.

 

[Corby78]

I like the prospect of samsonov but I’m not ready to hand the keys over to him in a couple years. Needs to prove he is ready before I start talking about not resigning holtby.

 

[895]

I like the prospect of samsonov but I’m not ready to hand the keys over to him in a couple years. Needs to prove he is ready before I start talking about not resigning holtby.

I agree, that's why I wish Holtby's contract was a year longer.

However sometimes you don't have choice. Holtby isn't gonna sign a 2 year deal just to give us time to develop Samsonov to replace him. He's going to want term.

In addition to that, we'll probably need to find cap space by trading Oshie or someone for Holtby and apparently that suggestion is a big no no on this board.

That's why I think there's a greater than 50% chance he goes.

 

[Sam Spade]

I think you're still in a 2014 salary cap mindset. As a percentage of the cap, 9m in 2020 is only going to be 10-11% of the cap.

No top goalie is going to settle for 7m in a 90m cap world.

With the next lockout we won't be seeing 90 anytime soon, my bet it stays flat for a while.

Teams that want to win need to prioritize where they want to spend the bulk of their money, top centers, top four dmen, then wingers should be the main goal, scrubs/grinders fill out the bottom six and you try to keep your 1a goalie around 6 mil.

Holtby was awesome in the playoffs, all credit to him, but having a Price type goalie is not necessary to win anymore.

 

[third man in]

Has any team won a cup while paying a goalie over 10% of the cap? I can't think of any offhand. Usually it seems like teams that win have a good goalie signed to a reasonable deal. Like Holtby's current one.

 

[895]

Has any team won a cup while paying a goalie over 10% of the cap? I can't think of any offhand. Usually it seems like teams that win have a good goalie signed to a reasonable deal. Like Holtby's current one.

Holtby at 9%
Thomas at 9%
Fleury at 9%
Crawford at 9%
Quick at 10%

at the time of signing.

So if Holtby's next contract is 9% at time of signing, that would be around 7.5-8m. 10% would be 8.5-9m.

But it's important to note that none of those goalies had actually won anything when they signed. Holtby will be the most decorated one of all, so I can't see him settling for less than 10%.