2018-19 Colorado Eagles (AHL) and Utah Grizzlies (ECHL)

[cgf]

It could be thought of as a step down but I think it's pretty similar hockey but with a smaller rink and more intensity.

The AHL is a lot less talented, especially at the top.

 

[Barklez]

For all we know he wanted a year to adjust to NA ice. Maybe he was happy to take the chance if it came but saw value in having a year to adjust before jumping in at the deep end.

 

[avsfan09]

The AHL is a lot less talented, especially at the top.

At the top. But the Ahl is pretty similarly deep.

 

[cgf]

At the top. But the Ahl is pretty similarly deep.

I mean the worst AHL team may be able to play with the worst KHL team, but the KHL contenders would blow AHL allstar teams out of the water

 

[Mac2Rants]

I mean the worst AHL team may be able to play with the worst KHL team, but the KHL contenders would blow AHL allstar teams out of the water

I agree.

 

[PAZ]

I think Francouz is fine with the situation, it sounds like he went into this season with the understanding he might play out the whole season in the AHL.

With that being said, Francouz has shown more than enough to give him a legitimate chance at a back-up role and for some teams even a starter position. I have no idea why we haven't given Frankie a legitimate chance unless the plan is to re-sign Varly and head into next season with Grubs and Varly... which is what I fully expect to happen at this point. I'll be disappointed when we watch Francouz walk and shine on a new team while we watch the clown show between Grubs and Varly for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah I'm not buying this one bit. Sounds a lot like CGF trying to paint Sakic as the bad guy once again over information we have no idea about.


It looks an awful lot like a set plan right now.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I strongly believe Sakic thought he would have a much better occasion to assess Frankie in the NHL this season. I am sure he was expecting the yearly extended injury from Varly. However it didn't happen this year. Varly's injury was fairly short and like I said before Sakic also needed to assess Gru as a starter which you can do only by given him a series of starts. Gru failed but by then Varly was coming back so Frankie never got his shot. Right now both our goalies are doing good and we are in a wild card race and along with the Eagles being also in a playoffs race so not a good time to assess Frankie.

 

[cgf]

Yeah I'm not buying this one bit. Sounds a lot like CGF trying to paint Sakic as the bad guy once again over information we have no idea about.


It looks an awful lot like a set plan right now.

Either that or it sounds like what usually happens with KHL stars when they come over...

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Either that or it sounds like what usually happens with KHL stars when they come over...

Like who? Let's see the huge list.


90% of KHLers that come over are gone back to Europe long before this point. If anything the fact Frankie is still here and by all accounts still very much wanting to be here would suggest he actually wants to be here.

 

[cgf]

Like who? Let's see the huge list.


90% of KHLers that come over are gone back to Europe long before this point. If anything the fact Frankie is still here and by all accounts still very much wanting to be here would suggest he actually wants to be here.

A list of what? Every KHL star who has come over and received a promise about PT to do so? Like Panarin, who was promised he'd play with Kane, or Shipachov leaving when he not only didn't receive the significant role he was promised but was sent to the A? Is that the list you want? Because if it is, just go down the list of KHL stars that left good money behind to come over to the NHL.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Call me naive but I doubt that Sakic earned the reputation he has as a person by making false promises. He strikes me more as the perosn saying "I can't promise you anything but chances are that Varlamov will get hurt as usual and we will call you up and give you a chance to show us what you can do".

Varly didn't get injured so he stayed in the AHL...

I think he's more the type to refuse to bench Varly (assuming he already decided he wasn't gonna re-sign him) to give the net to Frankie because that would have been disrespectful to Varly.

So one could fault him for being "too honorable", which lead to not give a chance to Frankie. But I doubt he is at fault for not keeping promises he presumably could have made. Doesn't sound Sakic-like

 

[cgf]

Call me naive but I doubt that Sakic earned the reputation he has as a person by making false promises. He strikes me more as the perosn saying "I can't promise you anything but chances are that Varlamov will get hurt as usual and we will call you up and give you a chance to show us what you can do".

Varly didn't get injured so he stayed in the AHL...

I think he's more the type to refuse to bench Varly (assuming he already decided he wasn't gonna re-sign him) to give the net to Frankie because that would have been disrespectful to Varly.

So one could fault him for being "too honorable", which lead to not give a chance to Frankie. But I doubt he is at fault for not keeping promises he presumably could have made. Doesn't sound Sakic-like

I tend to think this way about Joe as well, but I was mildly shocked that we landed Francouz given his profile & the other offers he had.

...so I have to question whether Francouz is just that rare exception who cares so much more about taking a run at the NHL than securing the bag that he'd be willing to sacrifice a season of his prime earning-years without the kind of promises that are standard practice with KHL stars going to the NHL; or whether Joe made an exception and gave Frank a firmer promise about PT.

I mean Joe did make Mironov promises about opportunities...Miro just utterly failed when given his shot & showed no progress to deserve another...and he did promise Jost an NHL gig. So it's not like he hasn't made exceptions to the Avs' "no promises" policy before...and us landing Francouz is pretty exceptional.

I wish we had real beat reporters that we could ask about this.

 

[filip85]

I mean the worst AHL team may be able to play with the worst KHL team, but the KHL contenders would blow AHL allstar teams out of the water

Well, that's not entirely true. If you look at Medvescak's roster from their 1st KHL season (13/14) ( Medvescak Zagreb at eliteprospects.com ) you will see that they were far from AHL all star team. Their results against CSKA, SKA, Kazan, Magnitogorsk, Omsk were very good. And these are traditional KHL's powerhouses.

 

[cgf]

Well, that's not entirely true. If you look at Medvescak's roster from their 1st KHL season (13/14) ( Medvescak Zagreb at eliteprospects.com ) you will see that they were far from AHL all star team. Their results against CSKA, SKA, Kazan, Magnitogorsk, Omsk were very good. And these are traditional KHL's powerhouses.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I don't specifically remember that team or how they got those results.

Either way, individual seasons of bottom-table teams getting results against the top sides doesn't negate general point about the talent gap between the AHL & KHL; specifically in the upper reaches of the table. I mean, if you put a random (competent) NHL team in the KHL from now on, they to would see a season series defeat to one of the minnows, but that would not erase the talent differential between the sides, ya know?

 

[Sakics Snowblower]

I mean if Shipachov is the only example you have, Frank's already kind of shown he isn't like that, hasn't he? Assuming he was told he would get a chance to play because they expected one of the goalies to miss significant time as usual, the fact that didn't happen and he didn't storm off like Shipachov did - maybe that says he knows he's getting exactly what he agreed to and is fine with it? Why worry about, there's no sign anyone is unhappy.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Frank was up with the Avs in late December when Varly was hurt or sick or something. 3 games in 4 nights and they started Grubbi in all of them. Ended up having to pull Grubbi in the third game anyway. Avs had every opportunity to start Frank in that game and chose not to.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Like I said, this is trying to make something out of nothing to paint a bad picture about Sakic again.


Complete nonsense.

 

[cgf]

I mean if Shipachov is the only example you have, Frank's already kind of shown he isn't like that, hasn't he? Assuming he was told he would get a chance to play because they expected one of the goalies to miss significant time as usual, the fact that didn't happen and he didn't storm off like Shipachov did - maybe that says he knows he's getting exactly what he agreed to and is fine with it? Why worry about, there's no sign anyone is unhappy.

Nah Ship was just one of the first names to pop into my head because I was recently talking about him, Mironov is an example many avs fans would be familiar with, and Panarin's just often on my mind lol. We can go through the list of KHL stars who passed up big KHL offers to prove themselves in the NHL and you'll see that the vast majority of them received some sort of promises about opportunities. I was just checking with Piercenald Anastasia that that was the kind of list he wanted.

 

[The Merchant]

9 in a row. Colorado will get to enjoy some playoff hockey, at least

 

[Foppa2118]

It's too bad they didn't make Jost eligible for the AHL playoffs. He could have benefitted a lot from that, though I imagine injuries were a concern.

 

[Pokecheque]

9 in a row. Colorado will get to enjoy some playoff hockey, at least

Sakic prioritized their playoff chances over those of the Avs so...yeah, that's nice.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Nah Ship was just one of the first names to pop into my head because I was recently talking about him, Mironov is an example many avs fans would be familiar with, and Panarin's just often on my mind lol. We can go through the list of KHL stars who passed up big KHL offers to prove themselves in the NHL and you'll see that the vast majority of them received some sort of promises about opportunities. I was just checking with Piercenald Anastasia that that was the kind of list he wanted.

When Frankie signed his contract with us he said himself his end goal was that he wants to play in the NHL like every other player in the world. And he even said if that meant spending time in the AHL to work on his game and to earn a chance to play in the NHL he was prepared to do whatever it takes.

If he was given a promise of playing in the NHL he would not still be here plain and simple. You said yourself he left a lot of money on the table to come to North America. If he did so with a promise to be in the NHL and it hasn't happened no doubt he would have went back to the KHL making 5-6 Million this season or more as the best goalie in the league again.

Instead he is still here, dominating in the AHL and by all accounts still having a lot of fun especially acting as a mentor and role model for Kaut on that team. He looks likely to lead that Eagles team to a playoff berth this year as well.


I dont believe for a second that the relationship between he and Sakic was built by a fake promise at this point and if anything I'd bet it's still a very strong relationship where Sakic could offer him a ~1.5M, 1-2 year deal next year on a 1-way contract and give him the backup spot behind Gruby and Frankie would have no problems sticking around.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The guy I'd be more intrigued about beyond this season on the Eagles is Shvy. He's been given the shitty end of the stick so far this year with a lot of 4th line minutes and 4th line quality linemates, and hasn't been given much of an opportunity to showcase himself. Which is a shame because as he showed last night when he gets a chance to play in a better role with some decent linemates he can still be quite the effective player. His release is fantastic and he can really pick some spots with that shot of his.


But, he's no doubt going to have some opportunities from the KHL this summer and after this season in Colorado I wouldn't be surprised if he opts to go back to the KHL to play a bigger role. That's a relationship that could need some mending from Sakic and for Joe to step in and make sure he gets a real opportunity to showcase himself down the stretch this season and hopefully into next year.



I'll also say this about Greer. I'm still not extremely high on him by any stretch, but he has turned me into more of a believer over the last month then I ever thought I'd be in him. He had some legitimately good moments during his NHL stint in February to a point where I think he should be on the Avs roster right now over Bourque/Aggz/Sven10. More importantly, since going back to the Eagles he has really stepped it up a notch and you can tell that stint in the NHL gave him a lot of confidence. 11 points in 9 games since going back down including a few really nice plays, but he's also generating a lot of shots and creating opportunities. He and Frankie are the catalyst's behind this 8 game winning streak.


I'd definitely prefer to keep Greer around another year and give him a shot in the NHL from day 1 next season as a 3rd/4th liner.

 

[cgf]

When Frankie signed his contract with us he said himself his end goal was that he wants to play in the NHL like every other player in the world. And he even said if that meant spending time in the AHL to work on his game and to earn a chance to play in the NHL he was prepared to do whatever it takes.

If he was given a promise of playing in the NHL he would not still be here plain and simple. You said yourself he left a lot of money on the table to come to North America. If he did so with a promise to be in the NHL and it hasn't happened no doubt he would have went back to the KHL making 5-6 Million this season or more as the best goalie in the league again.

Instead he is still here, dominating in the AHL and by all accounts still having a lot of fun especially acting as a mentor and role model for Kaut on that team. He looks likely to lead that Eagles team to a playoff berth this year as well.


I dont believe for a second that the relationship between he and Sakic was built by a fake promise at this point and if anything I'd bet it's still a very strong relationship where Sakic could offer him a ~1.5M, 1-2 year deal next year on a 1-way contract and give him the backup spot behind Gruby and Frankie would have no problems sticking around.

I wasn't saying that Frank was promised the starting spot or anything, like Ship had been lead to believe he'd be a top 6 C for Vegas when he signed. So I think you're jumping to an even bigger assumption than I am by assuming that Frank would've dipped back for the KHL even if there was a promise that has been broken; especially given his desire to breakthrough in the NHL.

He could've been promised the AHL starting spot & something like 10-15 NHL starts after Varly got hurt...a reasonable promise for both sides and one that could've been made in good faith by Joe, but a promise that would still have been broken this season...and he could be sticking it out despite there being that betrayal to prove to other NA GMs before hitting the FA market this summer that, not only does his game translate, but that he's "a good soldier"; since even if he leaves Colorado this summer, that doesn't have to mean leaving NA.

Again my point has never been that he's gone & we should enjoy the AHL help while he's still around. My point was simply that we shouldn't just assume that he's going to be content to comeback without us making the kind of commitment to him that we would've needed to see him in the NHL this season to make. That's all.


RE: Shvyryov; him I'm actually less worried about this summer. He didn't leave a better situation to come here, he didn't leave big money & stardom behind to come, he's still developing, and he seemed to come in with a 2-year plan for the AHL. Which he sorta suggested in some russian interviews last summer when he talked about just wanting to get acclimated & adapted to NA-hockey before worrying about tackling a bigger role for the Eagles...and which we've seen playing out with the way he has been eased in.

If he's not on a "scoring line" for the eagles next season, then we can start to worry about him heading back to russia in the summer of 2020, but not yet.

And it's nice to see folks noticing the mitts on Greer, there's a reason I keep saying that he's looked obviously more skilled than the 4th line bums he's been stuck with through most of his NHL stints...