2018-19 Colorado Eagles (AHL) and Utah Grizzlies (ECHL)

[Barklez]

He has shown that he has better skill than NHL 4th liners almost every time he’s gotten a game. Playing with the Gorks of the world isn’t unlocking anyone’s offensive upside. It’s incumbent on a team to give its investments the opportunity to actually pay off instead of setting them up to fail...and AJ most certainly hasn’t been given a chance to produce thus far. He’s not an offensive driver, so harping on him for not being one seems silly. AJG’s value is as a complementary guy.

And if those stats listed are true, 50% more ice time isn’t a small difference, line configurations aside.

 

[PAZ]

AJ Greer career NHL stats:

27 GP
0 goals
4 assists
4 points (0.15 PPG)
-7
10:36 ATOI

AJ Greer career AHL stats:

131 GP
36 goals
42 assists
78 points (0.60 PPG)
-26
16:52 ATOI

—

I know he has played very limited minutes when Beds has even used him, but at some point he needs to show a little bit of the offense he has displayed in the AHL.

However, beyond the offensive struggles, my actual biggest issue with him when he’s played with the Avs is his lack of foot speed and jam. He has been watching the play and not engaging. A guy like AJ needs to be in on the forecheck like a dog on a bone. He has good speed for his size, but does a ton of watching and trailing.

It’s frustating because he has all of the tools to be a perfect bottom 6 player; size, speed, decent hands. Why doesn’t he bring it? Why has he been so passive?

Somebody needs to have a serious talk with him.

I quickly calculated his NHL TOI, those are definitely wrong. His ATOI in the NHL is 8 minutes and 16 seconds, and that's heavily skewed due to his first 5 games in the 16-17 season. Without those 5 games his ATOI is 7 min.

Very, very few players will be able to produce or get enough confidence with 7 minutes of TOI.

 

[S3rkie]

I quickly calculated his NHL TOI, those are definitely wrong. His ATOI in the NHL is 8 minutes and 16 seconds, and that's heavily skewed due to his first 5 games in the 16-17 season. Without those 5 games his ATOI is 7 min.

Very, very few players will be able to produce or get enough confidence with 7 minutes of TOI.

Guy hasn't been put in a position to succeed hands down, criticize him all you want for not forcing the situation, but the outcome shouldn't be surprising.

 

[cgf]

Guy hasn't been put in a position to succeed hands down, criticize him all you want for not forcing the situation, but the outcome shouldn't be surprising.

I just hope that both he & Kam get another shot with this franchise, cause I think those two would be the start of a really awesome bottom 6 line...especially if we could stick Compher next to them...

 

[S3rkie]

I just hope that both he & Kam get another shot with this franchise, cause I think those two would be the start of a really awesome bottom 6 line...especially if we could stick Compher next to them...

Agreed I just think it would take a lot of unlikely circumstances to happen. Get a proper 2nd line to push talent down the lineup, while somehow flushing out the garbage we have currently have at the bottom end. With Kaut and Bowers not to mention 2019 picks coming in. The window is closing quickly for those guys. It's likely the beginning of next year or bust for them. Even if they get another shot in the lineup as is, if they are forced to play with offensive black holes for a hand full of minutes a night, the results will most likely be the same.

 

[cgf]

Agreed I just think it would take a lot of unlikely circumstances to happen. Get a proper 2nd line to push talent down the lineup, while somehow flushing out the garbage we have currently have at the bottom end. With Kaut and Bowers not to mention 2019 picks coming in. The window is closing quickly for those guys. It's likely the beginning of next year or bust for them.

Agreed with your conclusion, though I seem to be more optimistic that they actually will get that opportunity to start the year...if AJ isn't traded by the TDL...

Bowers is highly unlikely to start in the NHL IMO, whereas I think they won't wait too long to put Kaut on a scoring line if he makes the team in camp. And given how likely Soda is to wind up with the Calvert's & Longbeach-native's of the roster rather than with any rookies due to that line's usage, we'd really need just 1 or 2 big additions for things to line up for a Greer-Kamenev 4th line to formulate in camp.

big line
XXX - XXX - Kaut/Compher
Calvert - Soda - Longbeach
Greer - Kam - Compher/XXX (Kerfoot?)

I dunno if I trust sakic to do it without some love from the lotto gods, but all of the tools are there for him to do it if he's the right man for the job.

 

[S3rkie]

Agreed with your conclusion, though I seem to be more optimistic that they actually will get that opportunity to start the year...if AJ isn't traded by the TDL...

Bowers is highly unlikely to start in the NHL IMO, whereas I think they won't wait too long to put Kaut on a scoring line if he makes the team in camp. And given how likely Soda is to wind up with the Calvert's & Longbeach-native's of the roster rather than with any rookies due to that line's usage, we'd really need just 1 or 2 big additions for things to line up for a Greer-Kamenev 4th line to formulate in camp.

big line
XXX - XXX - Kaut/Compher
Calvert - Soda - Longbeach
Greer - Kam - Compher/XXX (Kerfoot?)

Looking at it laid out, I'd be a bit worried about the D game of that 4th line. But I guess you can say that about the entire front end. I'll be so sad if we go into next year with Nieto still on the roster. I think I'd rather them re-sign Wilson at that point lol. I wonder how Greer's game would mesh with Soda and Calvert

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't mind Nieto as a 4th liner/PK guy at all, I just want him to stay on the 4th line where he belongs.

All things considered, LBN has played far, far better and in a much bigger role than he was ever designed for.

 

[cgf]

Looking at it laid out, I'd be a bit worried about the D game of that 4th line. But I guess you can say that about the entire front end. I'll be so sad if we go into next year with Nieto still on the roster. I think I'd rather them re-sign Wilson at that point lol. I wonder how Greer's game would mesh with Soda and Calvert

Really? I think Kamenev was becoming a really good two-way player...1 I prefered on the PK to Soda...and with Greer & Compher on his wings, that would be a line I trusted to win the puck back against most opposition.

 

[S3rkie]

Really? I think Kamenev was becoming a really good two-way player...1 I prefered on the PK to Soda...and with Greer & Compher on his wings, that would be a line I trusted to win the puck back against most opposition.

I like his 2 way game as well, but I don't think it's to the point where he can make up for an entire line. Compher doesn't scare me as much as Kerfoot does defensively. So I guess I would be okay with that.

 

[cgf]

I like his 2 way game as well, but I don't think it's to the point where he can make up for an entire line. Compher doesn't scare me as much as Kerfoot does defensively. So I guess I would be okay with that.

Greer looks like he should be a positive two-way guy once settled in as well. So I think they'd be fine even with Kerfoot...especially since that "3rd line" would still be the one that saw the toughest usage.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I just hope that both he & Kam get another shot with this franchise, cause I think those two would be the start of a really awesome bottom 6 line...especially if we could stick Compher next to them...

I think the only way Greer gets a real chance is if Bednar isn’t coaching. Bednar just seems to hate the guy. He could score a hatty with 6 minutes of ice time and Bednar would probably bench him after the 3rd goal

 

[PAZ]

I think the only way Greer gets a real chance is if Bednar isn’t coaching. Bednar just seems to hate the guy. He could score a hatty with 6 minutes of ice time and Bednar would probably bench him after the 3rd goal

Ya it's weird. I guess he did his initial assessment in the 16-17 season and decided that using the worst team in the modern NHL was the best way to assess a player's performance and future.

 

[Pokecheque]

A piece from BR that has some scathing words for both the coaches of the Eagles and the Avs.

From the Eagles Desk: Long Week in California - Burgundy Rainbow

 

[S3rkie]

A piece from BR that has some scathing words for both the coaches of the Eagles and the Avs.

From the Eagles Desk: Long Week in California - Burgundy Rainbow

Seems a bit oversimplified but can't say I disagree with any of the conclusions.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't consider the Avs' system to be "slow" though. If anything a criticism that's been used around these parts is that it requires the players to go full blast the entire time.

I will agree wholeheartedly though that something must be done with the special teams. This is ridiculous that teams with this much speed and talent simply can't get the job done.

 

[henchman21]

I don't consider the Avs' system to be "slow" though. If anything a criticism that's been used around these parts is that it requires the players to go full blast the entire time.

I will agree wholeheartedly though that something must be done with the special teams. This is ridiculous that teams with this much speed and talent simply can't get the job done.

Yeah Bednar's systems require full effort all the time and over 82 games, it wears a team out. Especially when one line is laying 21-22 minutes a game. It also causes a lot of the penalty issues that the Avs have. Bednar's teams have always been near the top of any league with regards to number of penalties and a lot of that stems from tired legs.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah Bednar's systems require full effort all the time and over 82 games, it wears a team out. Especially when one line is laying 21-22 minutes a game. It also causes a lot of the penalty issues that the Avs have. Bednar's teams have always been near the top of any league with regards to number of penalties and a lot of that stems from tired legs.

That only speaks even more to the amount of mistakes they make, as well as inconsistency from game to game. Full blast and dominate then come out looking like a drunk monkey the next game.

 

[PAZ]

Yeah Bednar's systems require full effort all the time and over 82 games, it wears a team out. Especially when one line is laying 21-22 minutes a game. It also causes a lot of the penalty issues that the Avs have. Bednar's teams have always been near the top of any league with regards to number of penalties and a lot of that stems from tired legs.

I don't buy that, Avs system looks slow compared to Vegas' system and they keep on rolling, outside of the early season hiccup.

It definitely requires effort, but the last year's Caps or the current Vegas team system required more just off the top of my head.

 

[henchman21]

I don't buy that, Avs system looks slow compared to Vegas' system and they keep on rolling, outside of the early season hiccup.

It definitely requires effort, but the last year's Caps or the current Vegas team system required more just off the top of my head.

Well... two things... A system can require pace, speed and effort without it actually happening due to players being tired and worn out. So in order for it to be effective, you need the players on top of their fitness and games or it becomes slow. Second... a passed puck moves faster than a skated puck. Vegas in particular is heavily reliant on quick timing passes. I’ve watch Bednar’s systems at various levels and my observation is that it requires a very high degree of effort and skating compared to others.

 

[PAZ]

Well... two things... A system can require pace, speed and effort without it actually happening due to players being tired and worn out. So in order for it to be effective, you need the players on top of their fitness and games or it becomes slow. Second... a passed puck moves faster than a skated puck. Vegas in particular is heavily reliant on quick timing passes. I’ve watch Bednar’s systems at various levels and my observation is that it requires a very high degree of effort and skating compared to others.

Vegas also relies on heavy forecheck and constant pressure, they really don't give much time for the opposing team to set-up which leads to a lot of turnovers. Also, all the players should be able to handle that pace, Gallant implemented his system right away and there really wasn't any player that struggled.

 

[Metallo]

Well... two things... A system can require pace, speed and effort without it actually happening due to players being tired and worn out. So in order for it to be effective, you need the players on top of their fitness and games or it becomes slow. Second... a passed puck moves faster than a skated puck. Vegas in particular is heavily reliant on quick timing passes. I’ve watch Bednar’s systems at various levels and my observation is that it requires a very high degree of effort and skating compared to others.

I’d like if you could elaborate.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah Bednar's systems require full effort all the time and over 82 games, it wears a team out. Especially when one line is laying 21-22 minutes a game. It also causes a lot of the penalty issues that the Avs have. Bednar's teams have always been near the top of any league with regards to number of penalties and a lot of that stems from tired legs.

That's actually not true. His teams have been pretty middle of the pack in PIMS for all but one year.

I think his system is contributing to some of the bonehead penalties the Avs are taking for the reasons you mentioned, but the common theme between his teams in the AHL, and now isn't PIMS, it's that they're not very high scoring teams.

I think that lack of scoring also has to do with his system, as I think only elite athletes like the top line can skate as hard as he has them do at 100% effort for 82 games, and still have the poise to settle pucks and finish scoring chances regularly.

2007-08 Stingrays - 21st in PIMS - 4th in goals
2008-09 Stingrays - 15th in PIMS - 4th in goals
2010-11 Rivermen - 3rd in PIMS - 18th in goals
2011-12 Rivermen - 21st in PIMS - 12th in goals
2014-15 Falcons - 12th in PIMS - 26th in goals
2015-16 Monsters - 10th in PIMS - 17th in goals

Another important thing to note is he’s never been a head coach for more than two years until now with the Avs. I don't think he likes to adjust his system, and he hasn't had to much in his career with the short stints as HC.

Standings
TheAHL.com

 

[henchman21]

Vegas also relies on heavy forecheck and constant pressure, they really don't give much time for the opposing team to set-up which leads to a lot of turnovers. Also, all the players should be able to handle that pace, Gallant implemented his system right away and there really wasn't any player that struggled.

Gallant is a top 5 coach in the NHL... he’s going to be more effective than an average coach. Look at the pressure point that Gallant uses and how much his system is predicated much more on passing. Not gonna convince you if you don’t want to see it. A simple stat to go back and see is Bednar teams’ rank in PIMs each season, then look at the types of penalties. I’ve done plenty of write ups on Bednar over the years. Should be enough out there if you want to search.

 

[henchman21]

I’d like if you could elaborate.

I’ve elaborated in the past. I could write pages and pages, but kind of a talking into a void unless you have a more specific question.

 

[PAZ]

Gallant is a top 5 coach in the NHL... he’s going to be more effective than an average coach. Look at the pressure point that Gallant uses and how much his system is predicated much more on passing. Not gonna convince you if you don’t want to see it. A simple stat to go back and see is Bednar teams’ rank in PIMs each season, then look at the types of penalties. I’ve done plenty of write ups on Bednar over the years. Should be enough out there if you want to search.

That's fair, offensively I haven't really noticed anything that stood out offensively from the Knights, but I also don't pay attention to their system as much. What always stands out to me is their system away from the puck being very effective cutting out time and space against the opposition.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Gallant is a top 5 coach in the NHL... he’s going to be more effective than an average coach. Look at the pressure point that Gallant uses and how much his system is predicated much more on passing. Not gonna convince you if you don’t want to see it. A simple stat to go back and see is Bednar teams’ rank in PIMs each season, then look at the types of penalties. I’ve done plenty of write ups on Bednar over the years. Should be enough out there if you want to search.

Gallant's system is the one Bednar wants to employ, but is doing so with decreased strategy and increased effort. If you watch the Knights play there's pressure on the puck carrier but also around the easy outlets, forcing teams to force a pass to move the puck, or to hold onto the puck. It's a great system to force turnovers and also tire out the other teams. Bednar's system is more predicated on just pure effort and conditioning, trying to out skate the other team while pressuring around the puck. The problem with that is that often the forecheck is to just throw it around the boards and hope your guy gets there first. Usually, they don't.

 

[Ivan13]

Gallant's system is the one Bednar wants to employ, but is doing so with decreased strategy and increased effort. If you watch the Knights play there's pressure on the puck carrier but also around the easy outlets, forcing teams to force a pass to move the puck, or to hold onto the puck. It's a great system to force turnovers and also tire out the other teams. Bednar's system is more predicated on just pure effort and conditioning, trying to out skate the other team while pressuring around the puck. The problem with that is that often the forecheck is to just throw it around the boards and hope your guy gets there first. Usually, they don't.

Spot on. He was also very successful with that in the A because the skill level of defenseman in the A is far lower than that of an average NHLer.
When the other team gets around the forecheck you are left chasing and this is when bad cheating (hooking, tripping etc) penalties are being taken. His Calder Cup winning team basically grinded the other team to death by overloading their D. Gallant does that smarter as he takes away passing lanes, rather than focusing on the puck as you mentioned. Our team chases the puck, Knights take away the pass and let the other team beat their forecheck one on one.