2017 Summer Not Transfer Discussion

[Cassano]

Reus is out for 6 months apparently. How will they replace him and Aubameyang? Or was Reus a complete non-factor this year?

Edit: Nvm it's only 6-8 weeks.

 

[Deficient Mode]

As for group stage performance over that time, there really hasn't been much difference between the teams. Sure Dortmund's run in 2013 is the best of the bunch, but it's not like they have a long string of good wins. Both teams have generally beat the teams they're supposed to beat and each have 1 win against a top opponent. Dortmund was the 2013 Semi vs Real Madrid and PSG was the 2015 R16 against Chelsea (that was before they exploded)

So yea, Dortmund have better results, but not by much and given the circumstances I personally don't count it for much.

I don't agree that PSG have beaten the teams they're supposed to beat. I include the group stage matches vs. Arsenal this year, which landed them in the situation of facing Barcelona in the R16, and City were very vulnerable last year. Beating Chelsea shouldn't have been an upset for PSG, and I remember them playing way below their capability in those ties.

They do win a lot more domestic trophies than Dortmund do, at least. And I'm worried about Dortmund declining in a couple of years with Watzke in charge.

 

[Deficient Mode]

BVB fans are like those junior hockey players who think they're pros because they played one year in junior "B".

"Yeah, remember that one time where we made the Champion League's Final and lost?". "Oh man that was awesome, we're like soooo much better than Atletico Madrid and Arsenal!". "We won ours in 1997 where there were only four groups with no Real Madrid or Barca, which nobody gives a damn about it anymore, but who cares". "Theyre only haterz!" "We have the most paid player in Germany called Marco Reus!". "He never plays because he's always injured, but man if he did, he would tear the pitch apart!".

That's how I picture you guys.

Imagine thinking Arsenal is better than BVB.

Reus is out for 6 months apparently. How will they replace him and Aubameyang? Or was Reus a complete non-factor this year?

Edit: Nvm it's only 6-8 weeks.

He missed a lot of time this year and had some stretches of iffy form. I'd still include him in Dortmund's best 11 but the team doesn't suffer significantly when he's gone.

 

[S E P H]

Imagine thinking Arsenal is better than BVB.

I can't because pretty much each team is quite identical to each other.

- Both had semi-poor seasons getting beat by teams above that should not have (Liverpool and Leipzig).

- One of the teams' most important players were out for practically the whole season (Reus and Cazorla).

- Each team had a one man wrecking crew that they survived on like Aubameyang and Sanchez.

- Each team had their top of the line playmaker as well in Dembélé and Oezil. Give me Dembele, but Oezil has more talent IMO (but more flaws).

- Each team won their domestic cup, Pokal and FA.

Only difference between the two is that Arsenal plays in a tougher league due to the TV deal, while BVB gets raided by Bayern.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I can't because pretty much each team is quite identical to each other.

- Both had semi-poor seasons getting beat by teams above that should not have (Liverpool and Leipzig).

- One of the teams' most important players were out for practically the whole season (Reus and Cazorla).

- Each team had a one man wrecking crew that they survived on like Aubameyang and Sanchez.

- Each team had their top of the line playmaker as well in Dembélé and Oezil. Give me Dembele, but Oezil has more talent IMO (but more flaws).

- Each team won their domestic cup, Pokal and FA.

Only difference between the two is that Arsenal plays in a tougher league due to the TV deal, while BVB gets raided by Bayern.

This is all very wrong

 

[Arcade Fire]

Arsenal/BVB shouldn't even be a debate. One team has had good runs in the CL for years now whereas the other one had its last good run in 2006. One team won their league not too long ago whereas the other one won their last league title back when Rooney had natural hair.

 

[hatterson]

Arsenal/BVB shouldn't even be a debate. One team has had good runs in the CL for years now whereas the other one had its last good run in 2006. One team won their league not too long ago whereas the other one won their last league title back when Rooney had natural hair.

Really? Good runs for years?

A final 5 years ago, a couple quarters and a R16 exit isn't exactly a history of deep runs. I mean, sure it's better than Arsenal and their routine R16 exit, but it's hardly an elite string of results.

 

[Arcade Fire]

Really? Good runs for years?

A final 5 years ago, a couple quarters and a R16 exit isn't exactly a history of deep runs. I mean, sure it's better than Arsenal and their routine R16 exit, but it's hardly an elite string of results.

The final was 4 years ago.
And still, which teams have had better runs overall than Dortmund over the past 5 years? Real, Atletico, Barcelona, Bayern, Juve, PSG? That's it.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Really? Good runs for years?

A final 5 years ago, a couple quarters and a R16 exit isn't exactly a history of deep runs. I mean, sure it's better than Arsenal and their routine R16 exit, but it's hardly an elite string of results.

A quarterfinal is a good run imo.

 

[hatterson]

The final was 4 years ago.
And still, which teams have had better runs overall than Dortmund over the past 5 years? Real, Atletico, Barcelona, Bayern, Juve, PSG? That's it.

4 years on the calendar, 5 seasons.

Over that same timeframe, Real, Barca, Atletico, Bayern, Juve are clearly better. PSG, City, and Chelsea are probably a small notch below or on the same group. If you extend it one year Chelsea are obviously above too.

I don't consider that "good runs for years" unless you're taking the Arsenal definition of success.

There's nothing bad about what they've done, but they're clearly not an elite European team.

 

[hatterson]

A quarterfinal is a good run imo.

Depends who you beat to get there. Beating Zenit to get to the quarters doesn't make it a more impressive season than losing to Real or Barca in R16.

 

[Deficient Mode]

4 years on the calendar, 5 seasons.

Over that same timeframe, Real, Barca, Atletico, Bayern, Juve are clearly better. PSG, City, and Chelsea are probably a small notch below or on the same group. If you extend it one year Chelsea are obviously above too.

I don't consider that "good runs for years" unless you're taking the Arsenal definition of success.

There's nothing bad about what they've done, but they're clearly not an elite European team.

Again, it depends on your parameters. Clubs that sell fewer of their players will deliver more consistent results, but Dortmund is capable of putting together teams that can compete with the best in the world (2012-13, 2013-14, 2015-16).

 

[cgf]

I also told you the rosters don't even compare. You ignored it, but that isn't exactl debatable either.
Dortmund has two or three players that would crack the Monaco lineup.

Weigl, Dahoud, Auba, Reus (when on the pitch), Guerreiro and Dembele could all start for Monaco. Dembele v Lemar is a toss up though and Fabinho is on par with Weigl...if he stays with Monaco.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Depends who you beat to get there. Beating Zenit to get to the quarters doesn't make it a more impressive season than losing to Real or Barca in R16.

Which top team have Chelsea and City beaten in this competition in the past 5 years? Both beat PSG once in really ugly ties. Yet you put both of them in the same tier as Dortmund over that period.

 

[cgf]

The top 4 are pretty clear, not much argument from anyone.

For 5th, again I don't think there's much argument. Atletico has earned it with multiple deep runs in the champions league.

Then, based on results you hit teams like Dortmund, PSG and City, with Monaco and Chelsea by far behind.

Based on talent and makeup, I'd say it's completely fair to but City and PSG above Dortmund. I'd place Chelsea there as well based on form, manager, and on paper talent. Monaco is hard to rank for me. Monaco of this year is clearly a step above, but they don't have many results beyond this year and not a lot of history at the top. They're also likely to get raided hard this summer, so it's hard to predict next year. They should have an absolute truckload of money, so it'll depend how they spend it.

So for me Dortmund is floating around the 8-10 spot.

Sounds a little like you're under-estimating the talent in Dortmund; CB is the only position where they don't have extraordinary talent...assuming Passlack takes over at RB soon. Weigl-Dahoud is a midfield partnership that no club can trump; Auba has became a top notch goal scorer; when healthy Reus is an exceptional forward; Dembele is a massive talent who's inconsistency is improving rapidly; Guerrierro's one of the best LBs on the planet; and with the likes of Pulisic, Mor, & Isak their young talent up front can go up against any clubs young attackers without comparing poorly.

 

[Evilo]

Weigl, Dahoud, Auba, Reus (when on the pitch), Guerreiro and Dembele could all start for Monaco. Dembele v Lemar is a toss up though and Fabinho is on par with Weigl...if he stays with Monaco.

Wrong on almost all accounts.
Weigl wouldn't start over the two in midfield. They both project much better going forward.
Dembélé wouldn't start over Silva.
Guerreiro wouldn't either. Not even close either at LB or CM.
Reus maybe over Lemar, but that's not only debatable (Lemar was the highest rated player of the season by L'Equipe just so you know). Dahoud neither and he's not even in the discussion BTW.
Auba is debatable, Reus as well. Others wouldn't start.
Only Reus if you compare with PSG. And that's because Draxler and Lucas have sucked overall.

 

[phisherman]

Weigl-Dahoud is a midfield partnership that no club can trump.

Really?

 

[Arcade Fire]

4 years on the calendar, 5 seasons.

Over that same timeframe, Real, Barca, Atletico, Bayern, Juve are clearly better. PSG, City, and Chelsea are probably a small notch below or on the same group. If you extend it one year Chelsea are obviously above too.

I don't consider that "good runs for years" unless you're taking the Arsenal definition of success.

There's nothing bad about what they've done, but they're clearly not an elite European team.

I didn't say they were an elite team, you did that. I merely showed that a) BVB have had more success in Europe than Arsenal and b) there's only 6 or 7 teams with better CL records than Dortmund over the past few year which should be a good barometer in terms of BVB's ranking in Europe.

 

[Evilo]

Lol, if I had said Guerreiro was one of the best LB on the planet a year ago, people would have laughed (and I rated him here before anyone).
Incredible the amount of progress some players make as soon as they sign that BVB contract.
Same with Auba, but for some reason when he faces a french team he goes back to being inconsistant and incapable of beating an offside trap.

And to think some people here claim I overrated L1/french players

 

[cgf]

Really?

Without a doubt. Dahoud is simply breath-taking, and Weigl is a machine at the 6 like Biscuits used to be.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Wrong on almost all accounts.
Weigl wouldn't start over the two in midfield. They both project much better going forward.
Dembélé wouldn't start over Silva.
Guerreiro wouldn't either. Not even close either at LB or CM.
Reus maybe over Lemar, but that's not only debatable (Lemar was the highest rated player of the season by L'Equipe just so you know). Dahoud neither and he's not even in the discussion BTW.
Auba is debatable, Reus as well. Others wouldn't start.
Only Reus if you compare with PSG. And that's because Draxler and Lucas have sucked overall.

Oh dear

Lol, if I had said Guerreiro was one of the best LB on the planet a year ago, people would have laughed (and I rated him here before anyone).
Incredible the amount of progress some players make as soon as they sign that BVB contract.
Same with Auba, but for some reason when he faces a french team he goes back to being inconsistant and incapable of beating an offside trap.

And to think some people here claim I overrated L1/french players

Players get recognized as better when they deliver similar performances at a bigger, more successful club. News at 10.

 

[Evilo]

Oh for sure, Guerreiro's inner value has SKYROCKETED since going from a top LB in L1 to a backup plan in BVB.
Clearly one of the best LB in the world now.

Oh dear

Anyone with a glimpse of football knowledge wouldn't take Guerreiro over Mendy at LB and I knew those guys before you even could spell their name.
And I was the first to rate Guerreiro here.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Oh for sure, Guerreiro's inner value has SKYROCKETED since going from a top LB in L1 to a backup plan in BVB.
Clearly one of the best LB in the world now.

That's not what I said.

Anyone with a glimpse of football knowledge wouldn't take Guerreiro over Mendy at LB and I knew those guys before you even could spell their name.
And I was the first to rate Guerreiro here.

No. I suppose if your being the first to rate Guerreiro here is supposed to somehow lend validity to your opinion, my being the first here to rate all the BVB players you think are overrated should lend more validity to my opinion.

 

[cgf]

Wrong on almost all accounts.
Weigl wouldn't start over the two in midfield. They both project much better going forward.
Dembélé wouldn't start over Silva.
Guerreiro wouldn't either. Not even close either at LB or CM.
Reus maybe over Lemar, but that's not only debatable (Lemar was the highest rated player of the season by L'Equipe just so you know). Dahoud neither and he's not even in the discussion BTW.
Auba is debatable, Reus as well. Others wouldn't start.
Only Reus if you compare with PSG. And that's because Draxler and Lucas have sucked overall.

Fabinho's on par with the Dortmund CMs, if he stays; but Tielemans is a clear step down from either one and I take both over Bakayoko pretty comfortably...he's more athletic and steely, but both are far more skilled and are simply superior footballers, even if they are inferior athletes.

Lets see how Mendy gets replaced before we start trumpeting mystery replacement X as superior to Guerriero.

Auba absolutely starts over Falcao alonside Mbappe, don't be silly.

Reus would start opposite Lemar/Dembele in Monaco's 4-4-2 with the two young frenchmen battling for the other wide spot. He's injured so often that his class is forgotten, but on the rare occassions that he is healthy Reus has been BVB's best attacker by a decisive margin.

my being the first here to rate all the BVB players you think are overrated should lend more validity to my opinion.

Exqueeze me? :p

 

[phisherman]

So is it safe for me to put a bet for Dortmund to win the Bundesliga and CL next year?

With the number one LB, best midfield in the world and top striker in Auba who could beat them?