2017 NHL Draft Discussion Part 9

[Rotting Corpse*]

Starting to believe in the Necas pick. That will be absolutely awesome.

 

[Nick Lang]

I still have no preference from 3-12 or so. Would much rather move down and get another asset.

I wouldn't. Horrible move in my opinion to squander a top 5 pick for scraps. Utter waste of assets that is.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

I stand by my view point that I'd be thrilled with Necas. Every single time I've seen him play I've always been impressed. I'd even go as far as saying I don't see a big gap between Necas and Nico Hischier.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Based on the OJ vs. Tkachuk discussions, those who were angry that we passed on Tkachuk were right on draft day, and are right today.

Writing Juolevi off already!?! Damn. I'd say I'm surprised but I'm not.

It's really sad that we can't have patience with prospects.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Writing Juolevi off already!?! Damn. I'd say I'm surprised but I'm not.

It's really sad that we can't have patience with prospects.

Who's writing anyone off? I'm saying Tkachuk was the right pick on draft day, and nothing that's happened since suggests Juolevi should have been picked ahead of him.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Who's writing anyone off? I'm saying Tkachuk was the right pick on draft day, and nothing that's happened since suggests Juolevi should have been picked ahead of him.

Just because a player makes the NHL in draft +1 doesn't mean he will be the better/more valuable player 5 years down the road.

I'm not making any decisions until we see what Juolevi can do in the NHL.

Draft picks in the NHL are long term projects and making a decision on who was the better pick only 1 season after they are drafted isn't smart and will lead to many wrong decisions.

Juolevi hasn't had the chance to prove what he can do / can be at the NHL level. It's a lot harder to player defense at the NHL level than it is to be a winger.

Tkachuk did show well this past season, no one can say otherwise, but in 5 years I think there is a good chance that Juolevi could be much more valuable than a pesky top 6 winger.

 

[dwarf]

Just because a player makes the NHL in draft +1 doesn't mean he will be the better/more valuable player 5 years down the road.

I'm not making any decisions until we see what Juolevi can do in the NHL.

Draft picks in the NHL are long term projects and making a decision on who was the better pick only 1 season after they are drafted isn't smart and will lead to many wrong decisions.

Juolevi hasn't had the chance to prove what he can do / can be at the NHL level. It's a lot harder to player defense at the NHL level than it is to be a winger.

Tkachuk did show well this past season, no one can say otherwise, but in 5 years I think there is a good chance that Juolevi could be much more valuable than a pesky top 6 winger.

I think there is a small chance. Maybe a chance in ten. It was the wrong pick and I would bet it will always be.

 

[The Drop]

Tkachuk did show well this past season, no one can say otherwise, but in 5 years I think there is a good chance that Juolevi could be much more valuable than a pesky top 6 winger.

While Juolevi may out to be a good player, it's ridiculous to dismiss Tkachuk as a "Pesky" top 6 winger.

The guy had 48pts and would have put him 3rd on the Canucks/

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Just because a player makes the NHL in draft +1 doesn't mean he will be the better/more valuable player 5 years down the road.

I'm not making any decisions until we see what Juolevi can do in the NHL.

Draft picks in the NHL are long term projects and making a decision on who was the better pick only 1 season after they are drafted isn't smart and will lead to many wrong decisions.

Juolevi hasn't had the chance to prove what he can do / can be at the NHL level. It's a lot harder to player defense at the NHL level than it is to be a winger.

Tkachuk did show well this past season, no one can say otherwise, but in 5 years I think there is a good chance that Juolevi could be much more valuable than a pesky top 6 winger.

There is truth in this, but Tkachuk is setting the bar pretty high.

He didn't just "play in the NHL" like Nichushkin or Virtanen. He put up nearly 50 points playing second line minutes as a teenager. It's being somewhat overlooked because he's not McDavid or Matthews or Laine, but the dude had a pretty phenomenal season. He outscored every winger on our team. I mean, people are making a big deal about Baertschi and his amazing 35 points season as a 24 year old.

The last time we had a teenager put up 48 points was ... ? Trevor Linden himself? It's a pretty big deal, and somewhat undersold by just saying that he "made the NHL." We still need to be patient with Juolevi, and he could still come out ahead, but he has his work cut out for him.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

While Juolevi may out to be a good player, it's ridiculous to dismiss Tkachuk as a "Pesky" top 6 winger.

The guy had 48pts and would have put him 3rd on the Canucks/

Pesky Top 6 winger is good.

But IMO if Juolevi turns out to be a top 4 defenseman I value that more than a top 6 winger.

But we are getting off topic.

Glass or bust!!!! Well no, not really, but he's on the top of my list of realistic players available at 5.

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Just because a player makes the NHL in draft +1 doesn't mean he will be the better/more valuable player 5 years down the road.

I'm not making any decisions until we see what Juolevi can do in the NHL.

Draft picks in the NHL are long term projects and making a decision on who was the better pick only 1 season after they are drafted isn't smart and will lead to many wrong decisions.

Juolevi hasn't had the chance to prove what he can do / can be at the NHL level. It's a lot harder to player defense at the NHL level than it is to be a winger.

Tkachuk did show well this past season, no one can say otherwise, but in 5 years I think there is a good chance that Juolevi could be much more valuable than a pesky top 6 winger.

Totally agree..I guess that confirms that PLD and Puljijarvi are poor picks as well...There's no appeasing the "instant gratification" crowd..

 

[Zombotron]

Whereas with Glass, he seems to get dumped on quite a bit for being "boring" and "quiet", but that whole spiel about doing smart and crafty things every shift rings so true. Though it's more about constantly doing important little things positionally, rather than doing 1 crafty thing per shift.

With Glass, even when he does (rarely) go an entire shift without touching the puck...he's still using his vision, anticipation, and positioning to influence the run of play. It's not always one specific play per shift to point at and say, "wow that was great". It's just a cumulative body of work where he's using his smarts to be ready to control things both ways, and constantly executes on that when he does need to support the play.

The more I read about Glass the more I like. Not a flashy player, but well rounded and does the small things right.

I watched JetsAlternate's compilation - or at least, the game versus Seattle, just to see how Glass fared against the best competition in the WHL - and it was like, hmm, that rather visually-unimpressive player factored into almost all five goals in an 8 - 5 loss against the eventual WHL champions...

And maybe the connection is a bit nebulous and not even worth making, but I was reminded of games where the Sedins would put quietly up 3 or 4 points, and we'd wonder how the hell they did that

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Totally agree..I guess that confirms that PLD and Puljijarvi are poor picks as well...There's no appeasing the "instant gratification" crowd..

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that the odds are pretty small that Juolevi at this point develops into a better player than a player who is able to put up 50 points as a 19 year old.

They aren't zero, but they're small. There is no appeasing the "everything is black and white" crowd who are allergic to probability.

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that the odds are pretty small that Juolevi at this point develops into a better player than a player who is able to put up 50 points as a 19 year old.

They aren't zero, but they're small. There is no appeasing the "everything is black and white" crowd who are allergic to probability.

Nonsense..Tkachuk had a great first season with Calgary...He had the physique to play in the NHL right away...Not everybody physically develops at the same rate..Its a good thing that we've got you and your 'crystal call' around to predict how these 19 year olds will pan out.

 

[The Drop]

Pesky Top 6 winger is good.

But IMO if Juolevi turns out to be a top 4 defenseman I value that more than a top 6 winger.

But we are getting off topic.

Glass or bust!!!! Well no, not really, but he's on the top of my list of realistic players available at 5.

I'd be good with Glass too. Most on here for whatever reason don't like him

 

[Josepho]

>implying that not looking super fast or skilled in youtube higlights is "whatever reason"

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Nonsense..Tkachuk had a great first season with Calgary...He had the physique to play in the NHL right away...Not everybody physically develops at the same rate..Its a good thing that we've got you and your 'crystal call' around to predict how these 19 year olds will pan out.

Here is a list of 18-19 year olds who have put up those kind of numbers in the modern era. It is a pretty legit list. Tell me, how many of these players in their prime do you think Juolevi can eclipse in his prime?

I never claimed to have a crystal ball or whatever other infantile strawmen you are vomiting at me betwixt within your barely comprehensible gibberish, just setting the perspective. With his rookie season, Tkachuk has set himself on an excellent trajectory and it will be tough for Juolevi to do the same given the season he had.

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

I'd be good with Glass too. Most on here for whatever reason don't like him

He's my pick as well....He's just not the sexy pick..must be his name?

 

[Zombotron]

I would Rather we not take Elias Pettersson because his name reminds me of "Oscar Peterson," Canadian jazz musician. I do not like the Genre of Jazz, because when I was 3 years old, a bookshelf of my dad's jazz records fell on my head.

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Here is a list of 18-19 year olds who have put up those kind of numbers in the modern era. It is a pretty legit list. Tell me, how many of these players in their prime do you think Juolevi can eclipse in his prime?

I never claimed to have a crystal ball or whatever other infantile strawmen you are vomiting at me betwixt within your barely comprehensible gibberish, just setting the perspective. With his rookie season, Tkachuk has set himself on an excellent trajectory and it will be tough for Juolevi to do the same given the season he had.

Drew Doughty is 70th on that list..Seth Jones is 84th...Whats your point?...He's a a defenceman...Of course OJ not going to eclipse the output of a winger.
At the end of the day..were not discussing points..Its about value...Whats the value of Adam Larsson,or Marc Eduard Vlasic..?

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

He's my pick as well....He's just not the sexy pick..must be his name?

Tanner Glass is still haunting this fanbase.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Drew Doughty is 70th on that list..Seth Jones is 84th...Whats your point?...He's a a defenceman...Of course OJ not going to eclipse the output of a winger.
At the end of the day..were not discussing points..Its about value...Whats the value of Adam Larsson,or Marc Eduard Vlasic..?

Jesus, what?

My point is that most of the forwards who did that went on to become pretty damn good forwards. There aren't a lot of busts on there. The worst players are guys like Gagner, RNH, mostly Oilers.

Now here is a list of defenders who played in the OHL at 19 and were pretty good. Actually I don't have that list but it is ****ing long and full of nobodies.

Now do you see my point?

The odds are exceptionally high that a forward who scored 48 points in the NHL at 19 is going to develop into a very god damn good player. The odds are not exceptionally high that a defender who had a meh season in the OHL at that age goes on to become Drew Doughty.

 

[Verviticus]

he literally doesn't understand the concept of odds. you're wasting your time sadly

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

he literally doesn't understand the concept of odds. you're wasting your time sadly

His username is ****ing great though.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I wouldn't. Horrible move in my opinion to squander a top 5 pick for scraps. Utter waste of assets that is.

We'll re-evaluate this on the difference between 5th and 12th overall in this draft in a few years. (For reference this is the difference between Mittelstadt and maybe Necas/Suzuki... you are calling Necas/Suzuki scraps essentially)