Line Combos: 2017-2018 Florida Panthers Opening Roster Discussion

[RainingRats]

Eichel extended for another 8yrs (+1 elc year = 9 remaining, similar to ekblad's situation) at 10per.
McDavid 8yrs/12.5per
Draisaitl 8yrs/8.5per
Matthews you know will come in at 10+

the fact that we got Barkov for the next 5yrs now at 5.9per? thats monumentally huge. as ive said before our most opportune time to compete is now. i dont expect too much this year, so the following 4yrs, thats our best time to put the best possible team together. and with the clearing of demers and other contracts, hopefully they clear out bjugstad next offseason, they need to acquire someone big. not just bring up the kids in tippett and borgstrom. do that, but you have to go out and nab a legit player on top of it to join them and barkov, huberdeau, trocheck, and dadonov.

I feel like this has been an ongoing theme for the franchise. We're close to turning the corner then people get fired, injured, a key player leaves, etc. I see what you see too roster wise, prospect development wise, cap wise, etc and how there is potential for things to start looking very promising but we're a cheap owner away from that not happening. We're also a Bolland type contract away from Tallon squandering the cap space if we're given it. We're also stuck with two goalies, neither who can probably play 60+ games, who may not be good enough, tbd on them though.

The Barkov, Hubs, and Trocheck contracts are steals, no doubt. If Ekblad can play how he's capable, even that contract will look good.

 

[RainingRats]

Talking about big names to get next season, before this season has even started...man, I love this board sometimes

That's not what he's saying. He's saying we'll have the opportunity to land an impact player because of good cap management. Barkov puts up 70+ points this year and he's easily looking at 2-3million year a more to his deal. Has nothing to do with giving up on this season.

 

[ShootIt]

Good cap management but owners who don't want to spend to the real cap ceiling.
We aren't getting an impact player through FA/trade due to funds. Hope to gawd we get one in the draft.

 

[Depch]

Delete

 

[RainingRats]

Ask yourself this: Why would you spend just to get to the maximum cap when your team is in a building phase and not expected to contend yet? To me it sounds silly to just spend, just because.

What they're doing looks like a good plan.

A) Fix the core with an inner budget.
B) Build from within and with pieces that you have.
C) Get rid of the pieces that won't have an impact in a couple of seasons from now when you're expected to have that core built up.
D) When you have that core built from within then spend with what you have to the cap and it is a lot to spend and fill the positions in need.

Now the above also does not mean that they're giving up seasons and not trying. Of course they'll try and it's a team that has chances to get to the playoffs even now. Just that they're not expected to contend. Why waste money on players that won't have impact when your plan is to have a contending team.

It's an easy and understandable concept to do.

It's not about ownership greed, it's not about just making money. It's just smart business and building for the future. Last off season they did horrible contracts that started to handicap the team.

Questionmarks and possible contracts to ditch Yandle & Bjugstad. Ekblad too high, but the other guys are on very good contracts. There is a window of what 4-5 years with them and you'd expect to have the core fixed within a season or few. That leaves a window of contending for 2-3 years. Sounds good.

You can keep Smith! He would make a big difference for our roster. And save me the explanation about needing to give raises to other players or we needed to move him now or he's overpaid. None of that requires Smith to be moved and his contract could have been dealt with in the future.

Good cap management is useless if you're not going to use it and I'm not confident we will use the extra space or with Tallon use it wisely. Plenty of teams compete with cap issues and shed contracts even when things look tenuous. Teams get rid of bad contracts left and right. Last offseason wasn't nearly as bad as you make it out. Trocheck, Hubs, and Barkov are great contracts. The Smith contract was fine. Ekblad is TBD. Yandle was market rate. Demers was market rate too and we shipped him out no problem. Another example of a supposed bad contract getting moved with ease.

If fixing the core with an internal budget was true and getting rid of pieces in a couple of seasons was also true, then Bjugstad should have been shipped out.

I disagree about it's not about ownership making money. I think they're going to sell the team. Putting an internal budget in place after saying you'll spend to the cap is very fishy. Cut costs so your balance sheet doesn't look as bad and if the team wins, revenue will increase and then things will look even better.

 

[Depch]

Delete

 

[RainingRats]

Yes, Smith would make the roster better now. But it isn't about present, it's about building for the future. This is getting tiresome about crying over the same things that this board has been through for ages. I've only been active for a couple of weeks and it's getting a toll on me.

I get it, fans want to get the best possible team on ice they can and if that doesn't happen and they don't grasp some of the moves made or they lack long term vision then it's cry mode.

I would say to expect the team to have a core ready for contending mode for season 19-20. I doubt there would be room for Smith without him being a handicap to the team, thus taking someone's place who was better. Yes you could get rid of him then, but while keeping him he would have also kept the team identity in a direction they did not want to have, thus possibly hindering the process.

And perhaps you are right. Maybe I have some negative reservations towards the moves made last season for ruining the team chemistry, Gallant stuff etc (and yes yes, surely injuries played a role, you just have to mention these here so no one will start nitpicking ). I have to mention that do however respect them as persons and have nothing against them there. Yandle & Bjugstad contracts are being the big questions for me and possibly something to get rid of. We'll see how things go. Perhaps this season will show that they are great contracts.

I don't understand what is meant when it is said that good cap management is useless if they are not going to use it. Good cap management to inner budget is an excellent idea. It leaves a lot to play when your core on contend mode. That is good cap management beyond just one season. It requires vision to see that.

I think they want to give Bjugstad a chance to redeem himself. They want him to be part of the team. Who does not want to see him succeed. It's been a pre-season and people are on cry mode. Let's moan about it in hindsight if he does not rebound mid season.

Business is business and it's smart to try to minimize your losses. If you are not expecting to contend yet you will not have much visibility in media etc. that results in shortcoming of revenues. Surely the inner cap has to do with that business as well. But it also works alongside leaving money for future pieces that are missing when your core is set right. It's a situation that benefits the financial side and the strategy on building the team.

When the owners say they can spend why doub that, we do not know what has happened behind the curtains when they said that and when they came up with the idea for inside cap. Maybe all of that was part of the future plan to get things on course, we just don't know.

You're naive to think because we are in a good cap position for the future, we'll use it properly or we'll even use it all. Owners can no longer be trusted. For all we know, we're spending to our cap right now and when other guys who are going to get raises push us over the internal cap, others will need to be moved out. You're operating under the assumption that we're going to be spending over what we currently are when the time is right. Maybe, but it seems unlikely.

I see the long term vision, I'm hardly crying. You have rose tinted glasses on to think the moves today have any effect on moves in the future when history tells us otherwise. I remember when we were told we would be spending the money we saved trading Bure!

Sorry, but it's not about only contending, especially since there is value in playoff experience and you never know how far you can make it. A good team will generate more revenue and more fan interest. Nashville was hardly a contender...

Again, leaving money for future pieces is ridiculous because every other team has future pieces and many spend to the cap or close to it. There are options available to make moves if you have cap issues to free up money.

There's also no guarantee we even need the cap space.

Bjugstad is getting a second/third chance because Tallon drafted him and he's Tallon's guy. Simple as that. Any other GM would have moved him already, be it with March or traded him.

Please don't group Yandle with Bjugstad. One has a long history of consistently producing and staying healthy, the other is Bjugstad.

 

[Depch]

Delete

 

[Jakeybonz2]

Yes, Smith would make the roster better now. But it isn't about present, it's about building for the future. This is getting tiresome about crying over the same things that this board has been through for ages. I've only been active for a couple of weeks and it's getting a toll on me.

I get it, fans want to get the best possible team on ice they can and if that doesn't happen and they don't grasp some of the moves made or they lack long term vision then it's cry mode.

I would say to expect the team to have a core ready for contending mode for season 19-20. I doubt there would be room for Smith without him being a handicap to the team, thus taking someone's place who was better. Yes you could get rid of him then, but while keeping him he would have also kept the team identity in a direction they did not want to have, thus possibly hindering the process.

And perhaps you are right. Maybe I have some negative reservations towards the moves made last season for ruining the team chemistry, Gallant stuff etc (and yes yes, surely injuries played a role, you just have to mention these here so no one will start nitpicking ). I have to mention that do however respect them as persons and have nothing against them there. Yandle & Bjugstad contracts are being the big questions for me and possibly something to get rid of. We'll see how things go. Perhaps this season will show that they are great contracts.

I don't understand what is meant when it is said that good cap management is useless if they are not going to use it. Good cap management to inner budget is an excellent idea. It leaves a lot to play when your core on contend mode. That is good cap management beyond just one season. It requires vision to see that.

I think they want to give Bjugstad a chance to redeem himself. They want him to be part of the team. Who does not want to see him succeed. It's been a pre-season and people are on cry mode. Let's moan about it in hindsight if he does not rebound mid season.

Business is business and it's smart to try to minimize your losses. If you are not expecting to contend yet you will not have much visibility in media etc. that results in shortcoming of revenues. Surely the inner cap has to do with that business as well. But it also works alongside leaving money for future pieces that are missing when your core is set right. It's a situation that benefits the financial side and the strategy on building the team.

When the owners say they can spend why doub that, we do not know what has happened behind the curtains when they said that and when they came up with the idea for inside cap. Maybe all of that was part of the future plan to get things on course, we just don't know.

its unbelievably inexplicable comments lik this that allow the ownership to get away with stiffing us out of an nhl roster for 24 years. if this was any other market there would be riots after a quarter century without a real team. south floridians just take it. its truly unreal. any excuse to pretend that not signing radulov or trading for someone like him is a good idea. we need superstar scoring for once in our lives. spending the cap one time ever would be a refreshing change. at least we could say they tried. I literally cannot say that phrase for any season of our existence under any ownership. let me simplify this so i dont have to get into painful nuance regarding something this easy. not spending the cap = bad. got it? yay. now we can talk about barkovs awesome shootout moves for hours while we miss the playoffs

 

[Depch]

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[Brokin]

Listening to these comments on the cap is laughable. Depch at least understands that if you commit to being Capped out that it's not something where you can just flip players on a dime if you sign them. Anyone worth his salt is going to demand and get Market/Term. That's even if they want to come here or if we have the assets to get them. Lots of big ifs as we have sunk back to being a "no destination" in the eyes of many.

We are spending $67.6M now and that doesn't include the $1M signing bonus spent on Demers 7/1 or the $1.5M signing bonus spent on Ekblad. So all in all the owners are ponying up $70M this season. Just who would you spend the extra $7.5M in Cap space that would actually want to come here and not throw a roadblock up for up and coming prospects to make the team in the next 5 years?

 

[RainingRats]

Listening to these comments on the cap is laughable. Depch at least understands that if you commit to being Capped out that it's not something where you can just flip players on a dime if you sign them. Anyone worth his salt is going to demand and get Market/Term. That's even if they want to come here or if we have the assets to get them. Lots of big ifs as we have sunk back to being a "no destination" in the eyes of many.

We are spending $67.6M now and that doesn't include the $1M signing bonus spent on Demers 7/1 or the $1.5M signing bonus spent on Ekblad. So all in all the owners are ponying up $70M this season. Just who would you spend the extra $7.5M in Cap space that would actually want to come here and not throw a roadblock up for up and coming prospects to make the team in the next 5 years?

Good point. Hawks, Penguins, Rangers, Capitals, Blues, Wild, Ducks, Bruins, and Lightning always keep a bunch of cap space available. Otherwise they'd never be able to field a winner year after year! Good thing they never sign players to long term contracts who might not be worth it. /s

We already had Smith who would have been a great top 6 winger to fill a big hole.

Nobody is saying spend as much as possible for the next five years today, but leaving space on the table means you're leaving out resources to get a better player. And contracts are staggered so they end at different times, leaving space naturally available to sign players, new prospects with cheap contracts are always there to fill/compete for spots in the lineup, trades can be made to clear space, and players can be bought out.

Newsflash - prospects don't get roadblocked by contracts. they're usually helping the team with their affordable ELC.

 

[Brokin]

Good point. Hawks, Penguins, Rangers, Capitals, Blues, Wild, Ducks, Bruins, and Lightning always keep a bunch of cap space available. Otherwise they'd never be able to field a winner year after year! Good thing they never sign players to long term contracts who might not be worth it. /s

We already had Smith who would have been a great top 6 winger to fill a big hole.

Nobody is saying spend as much as possible for the next five years today, but leaving space on the table means you're leaving out resources to get a better player. And contracts are staggered so they end at different times, leaving space naturally available to sign players, new prospects with cheap contracts are always there to fill/compete for spots in the lineup, trades can be made to clear space, and players can be bought out.

Newsflash - prospects don't get roadblocked by contracts. they're usually helping the team with their affordable ELC.

This team will be made or broken on our draft the last 2 years and who we draft in the next 3 years period not on who we acquire in UFA or some meaningless bottom six trade. VGK took Smith because we threw in March period. He was untradeable without eating $1 to 1.5M of that stupid contract. Demers is costing the Yotes $3.1M this season and will cost them $4.1M for each of the following 3 seasons. We end up with a guy who is easily a solid 3rd line winger if he stays healthy....a big if. Vegas didn't want Demers or Nicks contracts and they would have been thrilled to take Weegar off our hands instead. Tallon made the right moves to add needed grit and move up some prospects. You leave these guys dawdling in the AHL until they are UFA's and there is no incentive to play hard to get to the show.

 

[RainingRats]

This team will be made or broken on who we draft in the next 3 years period not on who we acquire in UFA or some meaningless bottom six trade. VGK took Smith because we threw in March period. He was untradeable without eating $1 to 1.5M of that stupid contract. Demers is costing the Yotes $3M this season and will cost them $4.1M for each of the following 3 seasons. We end up with a guy who is easily a solid 3rd line winger if he stays healthy....a big if. Vegas didn't want Demers or Nicks contracts and they would have been thrilled to take Weegar off our hands instead. Tallon made the right moves to add needed grit and move up some prospects. You leave these guys dawdling in the AHL until they are UFA's and there is no incentive to play hard to get to the show.

You have no idea if any of this is true. This is 100% speculation.

 

[ShootIt]

Good point. Hawks, Penguins, Rangers, Capitals, Blues, Wild, Ducks, Bruins, and Lightning always keep a bunch of cap space available. Otherwise they'd never be able to field a winner year after year! /s Good thing they never sign players to long term contracts who might not be worth it.

We already had Smith who would have been a great top 6 winger to fill a big hole.

Nobody is saying spend as much as possible for the next five years today, but leaving space on the table means you're leaving out resources to get a better player. And contracts are staggered so they end at different times, leaving space naturally available to sign players, new prospects with cheap contracts are always there to fill/compete for spots in the lineup, trades can be made to clear space, and players can be bought out.

Newsflash - prospects don't get roadblocked by contracts. they're usually helping the team with their affordable ELC.

Seriously.

My post should of been worded better, but the main point was that it's unlikely we get an impact player even with cap management being solid with our core already locked up.
1. They aren't often available to begin with.
2. When they are, it's via trade, and the asking price isn't cheap. We don't necessarily have a surplus of quality prospects to give away. Nor is our team managed by a GM who gives away top picks.
3. Rarely, do impact players hit FA, and when they do, what do we have to offer?
4. So basically, we need to hit on one during the draft.
5. I don't believe, as it stands now, or the forseeable future, Tallon will have a blank checkbook, no matter how well the team does. If we make the playoffs, perfect, the team is good as is, no need to spend to improve the 2nd line or bottom 6.

 

[Brokin]

You have no idea if any of this is true. This is 100% speculation.

We are all making assumptions and speculation because of the unknown. I think I have a better eye for talent than you do.

 

[I am not exposed]

Future will say what happens regarding the cap spent in the future. I'm just saying what makes sense from the tiny POV in what has been said, what moves have been made and what the current situation is in estimating the direction.

I have no reason to doubt the ownership, for me what they've said this summer about spending is not enough of a case to do so. We do not know what decisions have been made behind the curtains meanwhile. What to me seems problematic often when talking about the owners and management is that people seem to credit the "sins" of the predecessors to the current ones as well. Give the new ones a chance after all the miserable failures you've had. Anything that had anything to do with Bure is no part of the current ownership or management? Clean state.

Yes, I'm expecting some of the young guys getting raises and this is why I mentioned Yandle & Bjugstad contracts as ones that might be on the move away. I did not mean to group them together to be on a same tier of players, perhaps I should have elaborated it more specifically. That would still keep the team in a very good position in cap management on the core and leave a lot to play with. Also let's hope that at least Bjugstad works out so he'll be part of it and why not Yandle too.

Playoff experience is important, extremely so. You bring up a valid point and I believe that was heavily weighed upon what they want to do. I believe that the road they chose to execute is a faster way to build a true contender core than keeping some more veteran players on your team to be a bit better now and possible sacrifice a bit of your home grown depth then. That's where the management comes in and they weigh the long term plans of the franchise, there are several things to take in to consideration. I trust they chose the right way. Florida still has some very good players and they can still get to playoffs to get that experience and I'm sure they'll try.

"Again, leaving money for future pieces is ridiculous because every other team has future pieces and many spend to the cap or close to it. There are options available to make moves if you have cap issues to free up money. "

You don't have to act like others, be original. I see an understand the possible vision there and if someone doesn't I can't help it and if it's a trust case I can't help that either. Only future will say.

Ever since Tallon on 2010 Florida has amassed 2 division titles, he has an eye for team chemistry beyond his unorthodox moves. Last season has very little to do with him. Give him some credit as well. Viola took the office 2013 give him a clean state for prior mistakes. Things are out of proportion here. I can see how the toxicity has built upon people with all the disappointments of the past. But this team has been on an upward trend this decade no matter who says what and last season just give it a rest, they're back on track with a little setback.

You have no reason to doubt the ownership!

 

[RainingRats]

We are all making assumptions and speculation because of the unknown. I think I have a better eye for talent than you do.

You don't know why anyone was traded or why they weren't. You act like it's known fact.

 

[Little Bobby Boo]

HBD
Bjugstad/Malgin-tro-vrbata
McGinn-McCann-Bjugstad/Malgin/Tippett
Haley-Mack-Sceiv

MM-Ek
Yandle-Pysysk
McCoshen-Petro
Weegar

Lu
Reimer

 

[Benched]

My overall point on Bjuggy: the Panthers aren't being fair to him.

Here you have a guy who led the team (albeit a terrible one) in his rookie year in scoring and did everything he was advertised to do if not more. He was even better skating with Huby (and Upshall) in 2014. He got injured the last two years. And you forget the two good years. All while he has one of the biggest contracts on the team.

With Malgin apparently getting scratched, you have a prime chance to bring him up to the second line and flank Trocheck and Vrbata, a pretty damn close line in skill to the Huby/Upshall line he centered when he had a 40+ point season in 2014, and we balk at it in order to bring McGinn up to skate on it. Jamie McGinn. A bottom six grinder/enforcer.

I don't get it.

 

[RainingRats]

My overall point on Bjuggy: the Panthers aren't being fair to him.

Here you have a guy who led the team (albeit a terrible one) in his rookie year in scoring and did everything he was advertised to do if not more. He was even better skating with Huby (and Upshall) in 2014. He got injured the last two years. And you forget the two good years. All while he has one of the biggest contracts on the team.

With Malgin apparently getting scratched, you have a prime chance to bring him up to the second line and flank Trocheck and Vrbata, a pretty damn close line in skill to the Huby/Upshall line he centered when he had a 40+ point season in 2014, and we balk at it in order to bring McGinn up to skate on it. Jamie McGinn. A bottom six grinder/enforcer.

I don't get it.

He doesn't deserve a top 6 spot. He had one until Trocheck beat him out of it. He hasn't shown any glimpses of being better than last year yet. He'll have easier matchups playing on the third line and he'll hopefully help to add more depth scoring playing there. I also wouldn't set the bottom three lines in stone yet. Even Boughner said the lines will probably change. Maybe he'll get a shot. He's lucky they didn't trade him or expose him to Vegas so I'd say they're being more than fair.

 

[Benched]

He doesn't deserve a top 6 spot. He had one until Trocheck beat him out of it. He hasn't shown any glimpses of being better than last year yet. He'll have easier matchups playing on the third line and he'll hopefully help to add more depth scoring playing there. I also wouldn't set the bottom three lines in stone yet. Even Boughner said the lines will probably change. Maybe he'll get a shot. He's lucky they didn't trade him or expose him to Vegas so I'd say they're being more than fair.

If they were going to mire him on 3RW, they should've just left him exposed to Vegas. Because they obviously weren't serious about him.

The point is the last two years of zero contributions weren't his fault. He was hurt. Injuries happen. If we were going to continue carrying him and his contract on the team, which obviously we were by protecting him, a healthy Bjugstad deserves a shot on the top 6. ESPECIALLY over Jamie McGinn. And he's shown that in camp and practices. He hasn't been bad.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

If they were going to mire him on 3RW, they should've just left him exposed to Vegas. Because they obviously weren't serious about him.

The point is the last two years of zero contributions weren't his fault. He was hurt. Injuries happen. If we were going to continue carrying him and his contract on the team, which obviously we were by protecting him, a healthy Bjugstad deserves a shot on the top 6. ESPECIALLY over Jamie McGinn. And he's shown that in camp and practices. He hasn't been bad.

As long as the lines have chemistry I don't really care where everyone is slotted. If Bjugs and McCann hit it off on the third line, great. Depth is never a bad thing.

I'm down for having Bjugs as a second line winger too. Would be intereting to see.

 

[RainingRats]

If they were going to mire him on 3RW, they should've just left him exposed to Vegas. Because they obviously weren't serious about him.

The point is the last two years of zero contributions weren't his fault. He was hurt. Injuries happen. If we were going to continue carrying him and his contract on the team, which obviously we were by protecting him, a healthy Bjugstad deserves a shot on the top 6. ESPECIALLY over Jamie McGinn. And he's shown that in camp and practices. He hasn't been bad.

Playing on the third line isn't a bad thing. He's going to get a shot to prove himself. He may be moved to the second line but he's not going to take the RW spot on the second line for now and McCann may be better at center on the third. His fault or not, he hasn't shown anything in preseason or the games last year. His production was abysmal. Playing wing with lesser d responsibilities which he stunk at with favorable matchups should allow him to produce more. It's a good opportunity to get back on track and moved up to the second line.

Tallon was never going to expose his guy.

 

[Brokin]

So Bench & RR believe Smith & March were moved to protect Bjugstad........because he was Tallon's guy and VGK would have jumped all over him. Talk about speculation. Is this a known fact or just speculation and assumption by the two of you? Two can play your game RR.

I'll tell you what. If Bjugstad's play from last year carries over to this year, I will jump out of my 1st story window if he is traded straight up by the TDL. I still contend he and his contract are worth zero (as it was last year) to anyone else around the league and will be bought out next off season if his crap play continues this year.

Incidentally, I will be thrilled if Nick can score between 15 and 20 goals and they can move him by the TDL.