Salary Cap: 2017-18 Roster Building Thread V | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | CAP SET at $75M

[IronLore]

I see a lot of people tossing Hagelin's name around in trade talks. I think guys like Rust, Hagelin and Sheary should be close to untouchable right now. The value of the return likely just isn't there.

To me, these guys are a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. I don't think any of them are exceptional forwards. Hags certainly struggled at times. But teams play the Pens differently with the speed they have. The speed opens things up more for the true skill players. Having a bunch of speedsters scattered through the lineup keeps opposing defensemen honest.

Perron for Hagelin was an excellent example. Perron is a better forward, but the Pens work much better with Hags.

Especially with the star players getting a little older, the Pens should keep whatever speed they come across.

 

[PensandCaps]

not everyone has to be a speed demon. Jussi is a CLEAR upgrade over every bottom 6 forward aside from Rust.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Couldn't you say the same thing about the 16-17 Florida team, but instead the whole team had a terrible season?



I wouldn't be surprised for him to get claimed off waivers anyway, so it's probably a moot point.

It's 2 out of the last 3 years actually.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because we have wingers out the wazoo and he is what JR is explicitly moving away from.
He is a rival for Wilson on our team... and I take Wilson 11 days a week for his youth, hunger, edge and udside.

Arguing Jussi's faceoff stats is like saying Grigorenko is a solid defensive option because of the same. And as far as gambles go, Grigs would be way more interesting.

What's next? Jagr?

But Jokinen has had consistently good faceoff numbers dating back for years though. This isn't like Grigorenko, who had a 38% or whatever on faceoffs before this year. Jokinen consistently put up above a 52% on faceoffs when he was taking 250+ faceoffs in a season. In his last 2 seasons as a full time center, he put up a 55.2% in 2011-2012 and a 57.9% in 2013.

It's 2 out of the last 3 years actually.

For Jokinen being bad or Florida being bad? Jokinen put up 44 points in 14-15, that isn't bad.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, yeah, it's a truism that no matter what you do to build the roster you have to take a risk. Drafted players might not work out, nor trades or UFAs. That said, out of all the options on the table, I almost always prefer a trade to a UFA signing, with a few exceptions. I just think you get younger, better players with that. And so I wouldn't feel bad moving parts, even parts that we like, if the need is right.

Again, if Teravainen is on the market (hypothetically speaking), I'd rather move some players and picks for him than contemplate signing one of the recently bought-out players out there.

If no trades work out, then you start looking around the league at UFAs. I wouldn't be surprised if Jokinen doesn't get signed for a few weeks, or is a training camp signee.

 

[vodeni]

not everyone has to be a speed demon. Jussi is a CLEAR upgrade over every bottom 6 forward aside from Rust.

respectfully he is not, as a matter of fact I would not trade any of our bottom 6 straight up for him

 

[PensandCaps]

respectfully he is not, as a matter of fact I would not trade any of our bottom 6 straight up for him

well, thats just wrong. idk what else to say.

Wouldnt trade Reaves for Jussi or Kuhn/Wilson for Jussi? come on...

 

[Tender Rip]

But Jokinen has had consistently good faceoff numbers dating back for years though. This isn't like Grigorenko, who had a 38% or whatever on faceoffs before this year. Jokinen consistently put up above a 52% on faceoffs when he was taking 250+ faceoffs in a season. In his last 2 seasons as a full time center, he put up a 55.2% in 2011-2012 and a 57.9% in 2013.

You're killing me. I know pensandcaps is lost (just the name...), but come back now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You're killing me. I know pensandcaps is lost (just the name...), but come back now.

That doesn't rebut what I said at all...

If you sign Jokinen for $2 million a season and trade Wilson for Sheahan, what is wrong with this forward group:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Sprong-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-Sheahan-Kessel
Hagelin-Jokinen-Reaves

Jokinen and Sheahan may not be fast, but their speed won't be a problem when their wingers are either Rust and Kessel or Hagelin and Reaves.

 

[HandshakeLine]

well, thats just wrong. idk what else say.

To piggyback on Vodeni's point, it depends on what GMJR and Sully want that bottom 6 to be. Do we try to replicate Bones' production, or do we tweak the bottom 6 into something different? Different players suit different roles on those rosters.

Jokinen is a total waste on some kinds of lines, and not others.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

But Jokinen has had consistently good faceoff numbers dating back for years though. This isn't like Grigorenko, who had a 38% or whatever on faceoffs before this year. Jokinen consistently put up above a 52% on faceoffs when he was taking 250+ faceoffs in a season. In his last 2 seasons as a full time center, he put up a 55.2% in 2011-2012 and a 57.9% in 2013.



For Jokinen being bad or Florida being bad? Jokinen put up 44 points in 14-15, that isn't bad.

5 even strength goals that year. 5. Outscored 5v5. Not what I would call strong defensively or strong offensively. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

respectfully he is not, as a matter of fact I would not trade any of our bottom 6 straight up for him

The thing is that our bottom 6 is currently some variation of

Rust-X-Hornqvist
Wilson-X-Reaves

They have no centres aside from Rowney and Jokinen should be relatively cheap because of being bought out.

 

[PensandCaps]

To piggyback on Vodeni's point, it depends on what GMJR and Sully want that bottom 6 to be. Do we try to replicate Bones' production, or do we tweak the bottom 6 into something different? Different players suit different roles on those rosters.

Jokinen is a total waste on some kinds of lines, and not others.

the thing with Jussi is, he can play Multiple positions, heck why not try him with Geno? he can move up and down the lineup. he's a good player.

 

[Shockmaster]

the thing with Jussi is, he can play Multiple positions, heck why not try him with Geno? he can move up and down the lineup. he's a good player.

No...... just, no.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

the thing with Jussi is, he can play Multiple positions, heck why not try him with Geno? he can move up and down the lineup. he's a good player.

Why would you put him with Malkin if you brought him in to be a bottom 6 center? You're back at square one if that's the case.

 

[Jacob]

Did JR have to take a nap before the trade was finalized?

 

[Empoleon8771]

5 even strength goals that year. 5. Outscored 5v5. Not what I would call strong defensively or strong offensively. That's just my opinion though.

Jokinen had 6 ES goals, not 5, and still finished with 35 ES points in that season despite not having many ES goals.

 

[Asuna]

Did JR have to take a nap before the trade was finalized?

big deal....wanted to sleep on it

 

[PensandCaps]

Why would you put him with Malkin if you brought him in to be a bottom 6 center? You're back at square one if that's the case.

im not saying JUST play with Geno, he can move up and down the lineup.

He's shown chemistry with Geno, so why not. Florida was a mess this year, a clown show. hes just a year removed from 60 points, i don't get why people think Jussi is some scrub who is done and wouldn't take him at league Min(a ridiculous thing to say)

 

[PensandCaps]

Jokinen's game never relied on his speed. So i don't get why people bring up that he is slow.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Jokinen had 6 ES goals, not 5, and still finished with 35 ES points in that season despite not having many ES goals.

I apologize. 6 goals.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jokinen doesn't play C anymore. He takes some draws still when others are kicked out and on special teams, but he is a complimentary scorer/winger; he is WEAK and the legs are giving way.

Wouldn't want him (on the Pens) at league minimum.

If he was a wolf, he would starve to death.

 

[Dying Alive]

I just don't want the Pens to start pulling guys off the scrap heap again like back in the Shero days. Taking shrewd low risk/high reward chances like they did with Schultz is one thing but those days of a trash bottom six...I can't go back there. I still wake up in night sweats thinking about Adams and Goc and Glass and Pyatt.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Sprong-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-Sheahan-Kessel
Hagelin-Jokinen-Reaves
Rowney-Kuhnhackl

Maatta-Letang
Dumoulin-Schultz
Cole-Campbell (just a name, can be any UFA bottom pair RD)
Ruhwedel

Murray-Niemi

What are the issues with this lineup? I honestly can't see any. You're so deep that you have 2 top-6 players at their best on the 4th line.

I just don't want the Pens to start pulling guys off the scrap heap again like back in the Shero days. Taking shrewd low risk/high reward chances like they did with Schultz is one thing but those days of a trash bottom six...I can't go back there. I still wake up in night sweats thinking about Adams and Goc and Glass and Pyatt.

Wouldn't signing a guy like Jokinen be a low risk/high reward type of deal, especially if it's on a 1 year deal? Regardless of how you feel about him, he'd be a good 4th center if nothing else.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Did JR have to take a nap before the trade was finalized?

He forgot to hang up the phone and now no one can get ahold of him.