Prospect Info: 2017-18 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #8

[Pantokrator]

I went with Hagg not because of his upside, but because I think he can play in the NHL, at least as a bottom pairing d-man.

 

[Magua]

When you go nondrafted, then 6th rd, scouts have pretty much written you off as a top prospect. Now one reason he went undrafted was a June birthday, so he was underage his draft year, but didn't have a great USHL season. Played better the next year and got drafted late. Doesn't mean he hasn't outplayed his scouting reports, but I doubt Laczynski is the next Myers (who made a huge jump from a subpar pre-draft performance) or Lindblom (who slipped to 5th rd b/c of questions about skating which he answered).

And his performance was good, but not exceptional, for a freshman:
Clayton Keller 31g 21-24 45
Denis Smirnov 39g 19-28 47
Joe Snively 33g 14-25 39
Henrik Borgstrom 37g 22-21 43
Trent Frederic 30g 15-18 33
Tyson Jost 33g 16-19 35
Ryan Kuffner 34g 19-17 36
Tanner Laczynski 34g 10-22 32

Vecchione:
Freshman 38g 14-20 34
Sophomore 39g 19-31 50
and he wasn't even drafted.

If Laczynski is in the top 10 of NCAA scorers this year, I reserve the right to change my mind and move him way up my list! I think he's a solid candidate for the bottom six, but will have to substantially raise his game to be considered much more.

Uhhhhhhhh..........what.

Clayton Keller is one of the elite prospects in the world. In contention for the most. Why the **** does Laczynski need to be compared to him? Or Jost? Frederic was another 1st rounder, and he definitely surprised. But Laczynski is still right up there with a lot of those guys stats wise. I know you're talking out your rear with "Ryan Kuffner" and "Joe Snively." Two 20-21 year old Ivy League sophomores -- NOT freshman. Lol what. Borgstrom and Smirnov were two other 19 year old freshman. Borgstrom is outstanding and another first rounder. Smirnov is tiny and can't skate for ****, so he's barely an NHL prospect. Laczynski is also a complete player beyond the scoring. And he was leading his OSU team in points when he left for the WJC, with 22 points in 15 games. His usage dipped for several reasons when he got back. Not that you watched him one single time probably, but you'd know that his line still looked really good, often better than the top 2 lines, but he wasn't getting the minutes.

You think it's some slight to put him with a lot of those guys on that list to show he put up similar numbers. It's not. They're mostly outstanding prospects and 1st rounders. He was one of the younger re-entries, so that has to be noted compared to guys who were true 18 year old freshman, but he doesn't really have an extra development year on them. And as we know, players can indeed be on different development arcs. LOD already showed how his draft year stats were pretty solid too. You think 46 in 57 is bad for a 17 year old in the USHL because you have no clue. Wade Allison put up 47 in 56 in his actual 18 year old season (13 in 35 in his age 17), though his trajectory took off in the 2nd half tbf. Again, development arcs.

But yes, along with Morgan Frost having to hit 100 points or bust next year, Laczynski needs to be a top 10 scorer in the entire NCAA as a 20 year old.....or else.

 

[deadhead]

Where in the world did I imply he's the next Myers or Lindblom? Secondly the USHL isn't nearly as high scoring of a league compared to the CHL. So scoring 46 points in 57 games mostly as 17 year old in that league is still a good draft year. He was still in the top 35 league wide & 6th in U18 scoring. It's not the first time & wont be the last time the NHL got it wrong with a player in terms of being draft worthy.

As for Vecchione he was already 20+ year old when he was a sophomore. He also played on an older power house Union team in a much weaker conference in the ECAC.

That's just statiscal breakdowns & treating players as equal which isn't the case.

Was just giving the parameters of what a good freshman season is in NCAA hockey.

I hope he's better than MV, because MV went undrafted.
However, Laczynski went undrafted off that decent USHL season, had a better season and was only a 6th rd pick. He had a nondescript performance in the WJC (1 goal and 1 assist in 6 games).

He's outplayed his draft position so far, but I'd still put him behind Aube-Kubel, a 2nd rd pick who had two fine post-draft seasons in juniors and a solid AHL debut (only 18 points, but that was a reflection of how they used him) and Allison, a 2nd rd pick who has a unique skill set (i.e. exceptional size with mobility and good hands).

The problem is that junior and college scoring doesn't necessarily translate to NHL scoring, but the lack of scoring in juniors and college is a bad sign (because the best athletes get the most opportunities). It's harder to project guys off junior and NCAA performance relative to SHL, KHL and AHL. So I'm more skeptical.

 

[deadhead]

But yes, along with Morgan Frost having to hit 100 points or bust next year, Laczynski needs to be a top 10 scorer in the entire NCAA as a 20 year old.....or else.

Or else Frost isn't on track to be a #1 or #2 NHL center.
Or else Laczynski probably isn't a good candidate for a top 6 role.

If you don't dominate at a lower level of competition, it's harder to project you as a top player in the NHL.

Top junior players dominate their post-draft season, even as an underager who is behind in physical development. A 19 or 20 year old, playing in a league where half the players are 18 or younger, should dominate (and most of the pro level talent is still in junior for two post-draft years, only the elite jump to the NHL).
[Look at Konecy, 68 points pre-draft, 101 points post-draft]

In college, by the time you're a sophomore, you're playing against talent your age that's equal or older players who are less talented (since otherwise they'd have gone pro).

In the pro leagues, while the older players are less talented, they're a lot older and smarter (dirtier!), so it's easier to get a read on players, if you can hold your own in these leagues, the jump to the NHL won't be nearly as intimidating.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Surprised by amount of votes for Wade Allison. I feel that #8 is too early for him.

Why? I feel like at this point there are a handful of guys that could be put in this spot and I wouldn't blink.

The way I look at it, what's more likely to happen: Vorobyev surpasses Giroux, Couts, Patrick, and/or Frost, etc, or Allison working his way onto one of those wings in the top 6/9?

It was somewhat easy for me.

Yeah, we forgot he was cold for the first 15 games of his draft season. That definitely invalidates a strong freshman season in the NCAA.

Nope. Sucked as a 16 year old too.

The problem is that junior and college scoring doesn't necessarily translate to NHL scoring, but the lack of scoring in juniors and college is a bad sign (because the best athletes get the most opportunities).

You just contradicted yourself.

It's harder to project guys off junior and NCAA performance relative to SHL, KHL and AHL. So I'm more skeptical.

Not really. There is a much bigger sample size of CHL/NCAA guys turning pro.

 

[Magua]

Speaking of voting Flyers prospects, I am really enjoying fans in the "Polls" section having a fit about Flyers fans voting for too many of our prospects and ruining the poll. Should go vote en masse and make sure Lindblom wins the current poll

 

[tade]

Why? I feel like at this point there are a handful of guys that could be put in this spot and I wouldn't blink.

The way I look at it, what's more likely to happen: Vorobyev surpasses Giroux, Couts, Patrick, and/or Frost, etc, or Allison working his way onto one of those wings in the top 6/9?

I supposed that we are trying to rank prospects here, and not trying to think about whether prospect A has a better chance to get onto the roster than prospect B. That's, imo, pretty irrelevant given the fact that the shape of NHL roster could change significantly in just, for example, 3 years... but then again, it's up to you what kind of criteria you set for yourself.

And as of now, I think M. Vorobyov is better prospect than W. Allison from what he showed through last couple of years.

 

[Striiker]

Speaking of voting Flyers prospects, I am really enjoying fans in the "Polls" section having a fit about Flyers fans voting for too many of our prospects and ruining the poll. Should go vote en masse and make sure Lindblom wins the current poll

 

[Stizzle]

Speaking of voting Flyers prospects, I am really enjoying fans in the "Polls" section having a fit about Flyers fans voting for too many of our prospects and ruining the poll. Should go vote en masse and make sure Lindblom wins the current poll

Done.

 

[Hurricane28]

Voted for the Big I. Need to watch some more of Vorobyov though

 

[Jray42]

I'm actually pretty surprised Allison has such a substantial lead

 

[amnesiac]

Speaking of voting Flyers prospects, I am really enjoying fans in the "Polls" section having a fit about Flyers fans voting for too many of our prospects and ruining the poll. Should go vote en masse and make sure Lindblom wins the current poll

good job, you just got him DQed

 

[Random Forest]

good job, you just got him DQed

 

[Magua]

good job, you just got him DQed

"Lindblom.....Lindblom....Lindblom"

He had 16 votes before I even went in there

 

[FLYguy3911]

I supposed that we are trying to rank prospects here, and not trying to think about whether prospect A has a better chance to get onto the roster than prospect B. That's, imo, pretty irrelevant given the fact that the shape of NHL roster could change significantly in just, for example, 3 years... but then again, it's up to you what kind of criteria you set for yourself.

And as of now, I think M. Vorobyov is better prospect than W. Allison from what he showed through last couple of years.

You can vote however you like but if a prospect is going to have a tough time playing above the 4th line, that would factor into the decision for me. As far as the current day roster, we're talking about 3 of the most valuable assets in the organization under team control for the foreseeable future at the center position. Even if one gets moved we voted Rubtsov and Frost ahead of Vorobyev. Much like with Morin, the Flyers depth is a good problem for the team, but it can affect individual ceilings.

 

[Striiker]

Well damn. Guess we should trade him.

 

[Striiker]

Shame on you Magua.

It's all fun and games until a poll gets ruined. There's a line and you crossed it.

How the **** am I supposed to know who the top 50 prospects are now?

 

[Magua]

I'm voting based on NHL potential regardless of log jams. Like I guess you could say Sanheim, Myers along with Provorov and Ghost could all be PP1 guys. But likely only one gets that spot. Who is the odd man out on PP2, if they even run a 3-2 there? Is it likely all 4 d-men get PP time and don't eat into each others points? Probably not. Heck, a guy like Friedman could be a PP2 guy on some teams, but won't sniff it here.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

There are so many options that make sense at this point. Even though I went Allison, I considered a good 6 players, albeit with Friedman in Hagg's stead.

Vorobyev

I keep seeing this spelling creep up. Did he change it? I know it's transliteration, but if that's how he wants it, etc.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I keep seeing this spelling creep up. Did he change it? I know it's transliteration, but if that's how he wants it, etc.

Apparently.

https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/assets/binary/290239386/binary-file/file.pdf

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yeah, we forgot he was cold for the first 15 games of his draft season. That definitely invalidates a strong freshman season in the NCAA.

There is no way Allison should be running away with #8 in my mind; I just don't understand the infatuation with him on this board.

I have no clue how Allison can be way up over guys like Vorobyov and Hagg. Vorobyov has already played 72 games in the KHL over the last two seasons and had a very successful World Juniors for Russia. He's just as big as Allison and only 9 months older. And watching both of them play, I just don't see near the hockey sense in Allison that I see in Vorobyov, or puckhandling.

Hagg also has a much more accomplished background than Allison and seems pretty much a lock to be an NHL regular. I simply don't see where Allison has done enough to vault ahead in the rankings at this stage of their careers. There's a legit question as to whether Allison or Laczynski is the better prospect. And though both had above average freshman seasons in the NCAA, would Denis Smirnov rank 8th in the Flyers' prospect rankings right now if the Flyers drafted him this summer? Because he was better.

Anyway, I just don't see where Allison has done anything to be pulling away from Vorobyov and Hagg, or Ratcliffe and Laczynski and even Friedman, for that matter, at #8 in the Flyers' rankings.

 

[Random Forest]

There is no way Allison should be running away with #8 in my mind; I just don't understand the infatuation with him on this board.

I have no clue how Allison can be way up over guys like Vorobyov and Hagg. Vorobyov has already played 72 games in the KHL over the last two seasons and had a very successful World Juniors for Russia. He's just as big as Allison and only 9 months older. And watching both of them play, I just don't see near the hockey sense in Allison that I see in Vorobyov, or puckhandling.

Hagg also has a much more accomplished background than Allison and seems pretty much a lock to be an NHL regular. I simply don't see where Allison has done enough to vault ahead in the rankings at this stage of their careers. There's a legit question as to whether Allison or Laczynski is the better prospect. And though both had above average freshman seasons in the NCAA, would Denis Smirnov rank 8th in the Flyers' prospect rankings right now if the Flyers drafted him this summer? Because he was better.

Anyway, I just don't see where Allison has done anything to be pulling away from Vorobyov and Hagg, or Ratcliffe and Laczynski and even Friedman, for that matter, at #8 in the Flyers' rankings.

You realize the 37 people who voted for Allison all pretty much recognize that the difference between him and the next guy is small, right? The fact that he's "pulling away" doesn't speak to the magnitude of difference between him and the other options.

Choosing between Frost, Allison, Vorobyov, Lazcynski, and Friedman is pretty much splitting hairs for me.

 

[FLYguy3911]

There is no way Allison should be running away with #8 in my mind; I just don't understand the infatuation with him on this board.

I have no clue how Allison can be way up over guys like Vorobyov and Hagg. Vorobyov has already played 72 games in the KHL over the last two seasons and had a very successful World Juniors for Russia. He's just as big as Allison and only 9 months older. And watching both of them play, I just don't see near the hockey sense in Allison that I see in Vorobyov, or puckhandling.

Hagg also has a much more accomplished background than Allison and seems pretty much a lock to be an NHL regular. I simply don't see where Allison has done enough to vault ahead in the rankings at this stage of their careers. There's a legit question as to whether Allison or Laczynski is the better prospect. And though both had above average freshman seasons in the NCAA, would Denis Smirnov rank 8th in the Flyers' prospect rankings right now if the Flyers drafted him this summer? Because he was better.

Anyway, I just don't see where Allison has done anything to be pulling away from Vorobyov and Hagg, or Ratcliffe and Laczynski and even Friedman, for that matter, at #8 in the Flyers' rankings.

40% isn't exactly running away with a vote.

And let's be honest, you haven't seen Allison actually play enough to make a determination about whether he's better than others. This goes back to a grudge you are still holding from last year.

72 KHL games is great but he didn't exactly dominate the league like say Kaprizov did. Pro experience is the reason people used to rank Hagg so highly in these polls year after year. He played all these games against men! Vorobyev is a very good prospect, but let's not make it out to be a travesty that a 2nd round pick from a year ago, who continues to improve, is ahead of him for the 8th spot in a prospect poll.

 

[briererocks]

You realize the 37 people who voted for Allison all pretty much recognize that the difference between him and the next guy is small, right? The fact that he's "pulling away" doesn't speak to the magnitude of difference between him and the other options.

Choosing between Frost, Allison, Vorobyov, Lazcynski, and Friedman is pretty much splitting hairs for me.

Agreed. I voted Allison but could have easily voted vorobynov. I had to choose so I chose. It is very close. Crazy that we have about 15 legitimate defensive and forward prospects.

 

[Magua]

There is no way Allison should be running away with #8 in my mind; I just don't understand the infatuation with him on this board.

I have no clue how Allison can be way up over guys like Vorobyov and Hagg. Vorobyov has already played 72 games in the KHL over the last two seasons and had a very successful World Juniors for Russia. He's just as big as Allison and only 9 months older. And watching both of them play, I just don't see near the hockey sense in Allison that I see in Vorobyov, or puckhandling.

No way? That's awfully definite. I don't have him quite this high, but I get it. I only have him a couple spots back.

Flyers fans are always clamoring for a pure sniping PWF with size and skill, and he's got it. That's probably why he's swinging the vote. His skating isn't quick, but it's powerful in stride. He absolutely has puck skills. My only knock is I think he floats around in both ends and doesn't really play like he has a plan. I think he's a pretty average hockey IQ guy with good tools. If he had the IQ of some of the other guys in this range, he's voted #5/6 or something as a lock. Even if he'll probably be a guy who needs sheltering, likely will need to play with specific players to be most successful, and could be more a good scorer than a good all around hockey player.......he has all the tools of being a good scorer. I could see the argument how the prospect pool is filled with the latter, not as many the former (not that that is a bad thing.......smart players find ways to score too). I always err towards hockey sense, so that's where I'm at voting the other 2 forwards ahead, but it's absolutely fair.

Hagg also has a much more accomplished background than Allison and seems pretty much a lock to be an NHL regular. I simply don't see where Allison has done enough to vault ahead in the rankings at this stage of their careers. There's a legit question as to whether Allison or Laczynski is the better prospect. And though both had above average freshman seasons in the NCAA, would Denis Smirnov rank 8th in the Flyers' prospect rankings right now if the Flyers drafted him this summer? Because he was better.

Hagg looks like an NHLer, but whether he's just a depth guy remains to be seen. Hagg has always been a guy with hype as a teenager, but who cares? He's been an up and down player in the AHL with questions about his ceiling. He's no slam dunk pick either.

Smirnov is miles behind them as a prospect, so I don't know where that comes from.