Prospect Info: 2017-18 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #13

[deadhead]

Kase will probably have to develop into a top 9 to even make the team, similar to Weal, while AK could make it on the 4th line and work his way up the food chain if his offensive skills develop.

Ideally, you like a fast 4th line that can both check top lines in some games (at home) but also hold its own on the road as a two way line that can score.

Maybe some combination of Ratcliffe/Laughton - Laughton/Vorobyov - AK/Laczynski?

 

[Rebels57]

Friedman is still a mystery, but I'll easily gamble on a RHD with his stats and skating at this point.

My next group in some order is Laberge, Bunnaman and two guys who others haven't mentioned much... Hogberg and Kase.

I see all kinds of NAK support for being next. What makes him a better prospect than Kase?

Also, it's nice to see our favorite troll Devils fan creeping over to put in a vote for Goulbourne.

That ****ing loser is probably mad that Goulbourne might be able to crack the Devils top 10 prospects

 

[Curufinwe]

Hmm, MacDonald4MVP voted for Ghoul, too.

 

[Rebels57]

Is it possible to block people from voting in future polls?

 

[briererocks]

Yeh, at EV Laughton was basically the 1C. He just did not get PP time.

NAK looked good in terms of eye test - but Gordon had him and Fazleev as his fall guys in the forward group this year. Benched for periods for no reason, relegated down line-up after playing well etc. And both are already very good defensively for their age as well.

Hopefully NAK gets PP usage this year and a ~2nd line wing spot. If he does I can see 40-50 pts from him. He is a good player with a very well rounded skill-set and a lot of drive.

I think NAK is a player who will do very well in the NHL. He is a very good skater, good defensively and has hockey IQ. I really hope he gets a chance to develop and then don't just box him in as a fourth line VDV like player. He has talent. Gordon is a horrible coach.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Is it possible to block people from voting in future polls?

That would be nice. Anyone who voted for Laberge over Friedman deserves to have their voting rights taken away.

Foreal though, how obsessed is this Dev Fan

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I went with LaBerge but I am a huge Kinky Friedman fan and just realized what a perfect nickname that would be. They Ain't Makin' Jews Like Jesus Anymore!

 

[Magua]

I think, if he hits, Kase could provide a lot of what we hope Weal can provide, with a little more energy. He's someone my gut always tells me is a player, so if he finally comes on the pro scene in the next few years, don't color me surprised.

But as tough as it is to evaluate a guy like NAK because of his 4th line grinder role this past year......that's basically been Kase for 2 straight years, and NAK does have more easily projectable tools, regarding his floor. He'll be in the AHL for his 2nd year, and I do expect that jump. Evaluating Kase is a b****, even though he's always passed the eye test against peers and stands out. I hope he does great this year in the SHL and makes it easier.

I think I will have Laberge, NAK, Bunnaman, Hogberg, Strome, Cates.....then I'd consider Kase, jockeying with a couple others. I had NAK at 11 or 12 last year, have him like 13/14 this year. Kase I had ~20, likely will be the same. Just sorta have the pause button hit on both of them.

 

[Random Forest]

I think it's weird that Hagg goes top 10 because he's close/has a high floor, but Leier and Vecchione aren't even in consideration for the top 15 when the same can be said about them.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I think it's weird that Hagg goes top 10 because he's close/has a high floor, but Leier and Vecchione aren't even in consideration for the top 15 when the same can be said about them.

The difference between our ~15th best prospect and our ~9th best prospect isn't too much. And Leier/Vecchione really don't have the potential to be anything more than a 3rd/4th liner. While Hagg can be a 2nd pairing d-man. Wouldn't most people take the 2nd pairing d-man over replaceable 3rd/4th liners?

 

[Curufinwe]

Are we sure Kase and the Flyers will both want to sign an ELC next summer? If he settles in the SHL he may just prefer to stay there for a second year and then the Flyers lose his rights.

I think it's weird that Hagg goes top 10 because he's close/has a high floor, but Leier and Vecchione aren't even in consideration for the top 15 when the same can be said about them.

I think it's because 22 still seems kinda young but 23/24 seems old. Also the draft pedigree comes into it.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think it's weird that Hagg goes top 10 because he's close/has a high floor, but Leier and Vecchione aren't even in consideration for the top 15 when the same can be said about them.

This is what I was getting at with the NAK/Hagg conversation. For whatever reason, Hagg gets the benefit of the doubt that isn't extended to others. Maybe it's because he entered the system when there was less and now the name recognition has built up over time. Or maybe it's the relative difficulty of evaluating forwards vs defensemen by box scores. Either way, it's odd.

Before anyone says it's because he bounced back this year, he finished 11th last year after tying with Allison for 2nd place in the 9th poll.

 

[deadhead]

I think NAK is a player who will do very well in the NHL. He is a very good skater, good defensively and has hockey IQ. I really hope he gets a chance to develop and then don't just box him in as a fourth line VDV like player. He has talent. Gordon is a horrible coach.

I don't think that was Gordon's choice.

And look at the FLyers next year, when AK comes up:

Giroux
Patrick
Couts
Laughton
Simmonds
Voracek
Konency
Lindblom
Weal
Raffl
Weise
Lehtera
Even with Filpulla and Read gone, there are 12 veteran forwards, along with:

MV
Vorobyov
Rubtsov
Leier

So he'll have to beat out a couple guys just to play on the 4th line.
AK better learn how to play the VdV role.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

For me, I would put Hagg higher because a steady minute eater on defense is more valuable than a 4th liner

 

[Curufinwe]

For me, I would put Hagg higher because a steady minute eater on defense is more valuable than a 4th liner

Good point. Even if Hagg at his best only ever gets the 17-minute Manning role, but he performs that role well, then there's a lot more value there than a 4th line forward.

 

[Random Forest]

The difference between our ~15th best prospect and our ~9th best prospect isn't too much. And Leier/Vecchione really don't have the potential to be anything more than a 3rd/4th liner. While Hagg can be a 2nd pairing d-man. Wouldn't most people take the 2nd pairing d-man over replaceable 3rd/4th liners?

Eh, Hagg could be a #4, but it's just as unlikely for him to be anything more than that as it is for Vecchione to be anything more than a third line forward.

I think it's because 22 still seems kinda young but 23/24 seems old. Also the draft pedigree comes into it.

Yeah, I think this is mostly it, draft pedigree goes a long way. Vecchione and Leier were both equally impressive, if not more impressive, at 22 years old than Hagg is now IMO.

 

[deadhead]

Leier was impressive in terms of AHL play, but not physically, he's not a highly skilled speed forward nor a big, tough forechecker (he has the heart but not the body). So he gets docked as a "tweener," similar to Cousins. It's just hard to find a role for these guys.

MV was impressive in college but he'll be 25 this year, so that works against him as does the lack of any outstanding physical trait.

Hagg not only had a solid campaign, but physically is the prototypical mobile defenseman, 6'2 210 or so, and that makes him an easier fit, he's skilled enough to carry the puck out of the D-zone and big and mobile enough to be the stay at home guy in a defensive pair.

 

[briererocks]

I don't think that was Gordon's choice.

And look at the FLyers next year, when AK comes up:

Giroux
Patrick
Couts
Laughton
Simmonds
Voracek
Konency
Lindblom
Weal
Raffl
Weise
Lehtera
Even with Filpulla and Read gone, there are 12 veteran forwards, along with:

MV
Vorobyov
Rubtsov
Leier

So he'll have to beat out a couple guys just to play on the 4th line.
AK better learn how to play the VdV role.

That is an old school mentality. The fourth line in the modern NHL needs to be able to contribute offensively. Nak can definitely pk but he can contribute offensively too. That should be encouraged.

 

[Random Forest]

Leier was impressive in terms of AHL play, but not physically, he's not a highly skilled speed forward nor a big, tough forechecker (he has the heart but not the body). So he gets docked as a "tweener," similar to Cousins. It's just hard to find a role for these guys.

MV was impressive in college but he'll be 25 this year, so that works against him as does the lack of any outstanding physical trait.

Hagg not only had a solid campaign, but physically is the prototypical mobile defenseman, 6'2 210or so, and that makes him an easier fit, he's skilled enough to carry the puck out of the D-zone and big and mobile enough to be the stay at home guy in a defensive pair.

I'm just gonna bold all the cliches and hockey platitudes here. Hagg being 6'2 and a decent skater doesn't guarantee much on its own. Patrick Wiercioch is 6'5 and a good skater, but he's pretty unimpressive. The hackneyed hockey 101 conventions just aren't that useful when you have guys like Stralman, Spurgeon, Rust, etc. proving them wrong routinely.

Not to say Hagg won't be a #4D or something along those lines, but it takes more than a good body to be a solid NHL player.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Most players that are good at hockey unsurprisingly are good on the PK. The idea that it's a specific skill is how you end up with coaches overvaluing guys like VandeVelde & Bellemare.

 

[deadhead]

I'm just gonna bold all the cliches and hockey platitudes here. Hagg being 6'2 and a decent skater doesn't guarantee much on its own. Patrick Wiercioch is 6'5 and a good skater, but he's pretty unimpressive. The hackneyed hockey 101 conventions just aren't that useful when you have guys like Stralman, Spurgeon, Rust, etc. proving them wrong routinely.

Not to say Hagg won't be a #4D or something along those lines, but it takes more than a good body to be a solid NHL player.

Nothing is guaranteed for a prospect.
But if you physically fit the role, there's less to overcome.

I watched Leier last year, he can skate, and he's small but fiesty, but Leier doesn't have great offensive skills - and before you blame his linemates, when Konency skated on the 4th line in the same role, the difference was night and day. Which means Leier is going to make his living as a forechecker. And an undersized forechecker is at an obvious disadvantage.

The difference with AK is if he can't translate his junior scoring skills to the pro game (to be determined), he's big enough and fast enough to be highly effective as a forechecker. So his floor is 4th line wing, his ceiling will be determined by his offensive skill set.

 

[Striiker]

Well, there you have it.

Leier isn't Konecny, folks. Who coulda guessed?

The two options are 1) be a Konecny clone, or 2) nothing at all.

 

[deadhead]

Well, there you have it.

Leier isn't Konecny, folks. Who coulda guessed?

The two options are 1) be a Konecny clone, or 2) nothing at all.

For "little big men" yes.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think it's weird that Hagg goes top 10 because he's close/has a high floor, but Leier and Vecchione aren't even in consideration for the top 15 when the same can be said about them.

Hagg has size, skating, and could be a 20 minute defenseman, or close to it.

Leier and Vecchione are tiny guys who will be 10-12 minute 4th liners at best, if they even get full time gigs in the NHL.

So I think there's a legit difference in ceilings. The Leiers and Vecchiones of the world are easier to find.

 

[briererocks]

Hagg has size, skating, and could be a 20 minute defenseman, or close to it.

Leier and Vecchione are tiny guys who will be 10-12 minute 4th liners at best, if they even get full time gigs in the NHL.

So I think there's a legit difference in ceilings. The Leiers and Vecchiones of the world are easier to find.

Agree with you about leier. I think it's premature with vecchione.