Proposal: 2016 Offseason Trade Rumours & Proposals Part III

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Laoghaire

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Right, so Colborne came nowhere near the potential people had identified him as having. To me, that suggest using him as a floor is far more realistic than using him as a projection. That said, like Brown, Colborne was also a draft riser, so there's another similarity.

As for whether or not Brown has a higher ceiling than Colborne had, hard to say, but I would probably side with yes. Brown had some scouts saying he could be as high as a top 5 or 6 pick. Colborne had some scouts saying don't be surprised if he gets selected in the first half of the round. Granted, 2008 was a great draft, so that muddies the waters a bit.
No, his floor is Hugh Jessiman, another player from a great (greatest in all likelihood) draft year who had 2 games in the NHL.

Don't assume that a 30 pt player is easy to come by, we only had 7. A majority of player in the NHL don't reach that number in any given year.
 

God Says No

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No, his floor is Hugh Jessiman, another player from a great (greatest in all likelihood) draft year who had 2 games in the NHL.

Don't assume that a 30 pt player is easy to come by, we only had 7. A majority of player in the NHL don't reach that number in any given year.

I don't see it. Hugh Jessiman was just a big guy. I think Brown has more tools than Jessiman ever had. Colborne is the floor for Brown. Not the 40 pt Colborne, but the previous years Colborne. I think Colborne will regress, which is why he wasn't qualified.
 

yoplait

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Forsberg getting 6x6, is a pretty good comparison for Hoffman. They stack up side to side on points but Filip has higher room for improvement due to age, while we would be buying out UFA years from Hoff.
 

Micklebot

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No, his floor is Hugh Jessiman, another player from a great (greatest in all likelihood) draft year who had 2 games in the NHL.

Don't assume that a 30 pt player is easy to come by, we only had 7. A majority of player in the NHL don't reach that number in any given year.

It's true that any player can bust. Most people use the term floor to define a relatively safe projection, not the absolute worst case scenario. My bad for not being more specific in what I was trying to describe.

What makes me like Brown is that pretty much everything that scouts were down on regarding him early in the season, he significantly improved on in the second half. He's very much a high IQ type of player and plays the type of game that looks transferable to me. He doesn't have any glaring deficiencies to overcome like size or skating, and projects to get stronger. He isn't a guy that was dominating based on his size alone either, which is often the criticism of big guys playing against kids.

I get that people want to pump the brakes; 11th OA picks don't often pan out to top line forwards, but I don't see Brown as a typical 11th OA pick. Time will tell, but I suspect by this time next year, he'll be getting compared to guys like Dubois and Tkachuk rather than McLeod, Kunin or Bellows.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Forsberg getting 6x6, is a pretty good comparison for Hoffman. They stack up side to side on points but Filip has higher room for improvement due to age, while we would be buying out UFA years from Hoff.

I don't see it. Forsberg got 6x6 partially because of potential. Players like him and Barkov get contracts like that because teams are willing to take a risk on them thinking that they'll get better in 2-3 years and cost the team a significantly higher cap hit on a bridge deal. Forsberg is also a much better all around player than Hoffman and cracked 30 goals this past season.

As far as comparables go, Nyquists deal has already been mentioned. Matt Moulson got 3x3 a few years back after two 30 goal seasons. It is hard to find perfect comparable contracts because of the unique timing of Hoffman's rise.

I have no doubt in my mind, that if Hoffman has a third near 30 goal season, someone will give him 6x6 next year. But I find it suspect that the Senators haven't traded him, and that they haven't agreed to a contract. Pure speculation, but this leads me to believe that maybe no other team in the league sees Hoffman as being worth what he is asking right now. If you're trading for Hoffman, and you think you can extend him, of course you give up a lot. But if you call about Hoffman and find out it is going to take 6M per over a long term deal to get him done, maybe you are only interested in trading for him as a one year rental with a wait and see approach to extending him, which makes Hoffman less valuable to your team.

I wouldn't have thought this even a week ago, but with how seem to be going from the outside looking in, I wouldn't be surprised if Ottawa goes to arbitration with Hoffman and keeps him for a year.

Or maybe there is an understanding that they won't be able to trade him until after July 1st since teams who might be in on him want to see what happens with free agency before giving up assets to acquire a possibly 6M per contract via trade.
 

BonkTastic

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To be fair Colbourne had a higher ceiling than what he's showing right now.

They were comparing his style when he was drafted to Joe Thornton. He had everything to succeed but he was just not as good as people thought.

Funnily enough, Brown and Colbourne are very comparable. Both C, same side, big guy, inconsistent, that can score goals and has playmaking skills. Brown picked it up after a disappointing start to the season but he was not going anywhere near we picked him before that. Hopefully we get the 2nd part of the season Logan Brown.

We'll see where it goes in a couple years but I don't think it's fair to say that Brown has a higher ceiling than Colbourne had.

You aren't taking into account the fact that despite the fact that they are comparable in style, Brown is just flat out more skilled than Colborne was in his draft year.

Colborne was a massive boom-or-bust pick. Everyone knew it during that draft year. Brown is just better. Similar style? Sure. Similar skillset? Sure. Equivalent skill? Not a chance.
 

GWNR

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Logan Brown's chances of playing at the World Juniors this year? Or any of our draft picks for that matter?

Brown should for the US.

He'd slot in as their 3rd line C I think.

Chabot will likely be on Team C and White on Team USA.

I believe Jaros can still play for Slovakia (may be too old though) and for Sweden: Dahlen and Ahl
 

Big Papi

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Murray Pam ‏@Pammerhockey 2h2 hours ago
@THNRyanKennedy #Sens 2015 4th-rounder Filip Ahl declared he wants to play in the CHL. Should be selected.


this normal? guess its good for his development

UPDATE: he's going to Regina in the WHL
 
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harrisb

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Murray Pam ‏@Pammerhockey 2h2 hours ago
@THNRyanKennedy #Sens 2015 4th-rounder Filip Ahl declared he wants to play in the CHL. Should be selected.


this normal? guess its good for his development

UPDATE: he's going to Regina in the WHL

"Ahl"-righty then. This will never get old. Nice to see him in NA and how he'll compare to his peers.
 

Real Smart Sens Fan

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Murray Pam ‏@Pammerhockey 2h2 hours ago
@THNRyanKennedy #Sens 2015 4th-rounder Filip Ahl declared he wants to play in the CHL. Should be selected.


this normal? guess its good for his development

UPDATE: he's going to Regina in the WHL

Really great news. Should be PPG or more
 

GWNR

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Really glad Ahl is coming over. I get the usefulness of playing against men, but doing both is even better. It'll be good to see how he compares to other CHL players.
 

BonkTastic

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Really glad Ahl is coming over. I get the usefulness of playing against men, but doing both is even better. It'll be good to see how he compares to other CHL players.

Yep.

Playing against men as a junior can be beneficial... but playing 12 mins a night on a low-skill line against men can also stunt a young player's growth.

Glad to see him come over. He'll be a 20-23min/night stud over here, and play on top lines. That's what he needs right now.
 

armani

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Yep.

Playing against men as a junior can be beneficial... but playing 12 mins a night on a low-skill line against men can also stunt a young player's growth.

Glad to see him come over. He'll be a 20-23min/night stud over here, and play on top lines. That's what he needs right now.

The recent draft strategy for this organization has been to take the best available safe pick in the early rounds (typically first two), then go for the fences with mid-low round picks (i.e. players who dropped bc of injury/illness/lack of full season, or are ranked low because they lack in some attributes such as skating (Stone), or longer term projects...etc.).

Ahlfie is that kind of a pick, excited to see his development in the CHL.
 

Qward

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Murray Pam ‏@Pammerhockey 2h2 hours ago
@THNRyanKennedy #Sens 2015 4th-rounder Filip Ahl declared he wants to play in the CHL. Should be selected.


this normal? guess its good for his development

UPDATE: he's going to Regina in the WHL

I can't wait till Ahl is eligible to play in the AHL, we will have jokes for hours.
 

Big Papi

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Would anyone else take a flyer on Yakupov for like a 2nd? Slot in at 3RW

i don't know enough to have an informed opinion, but I don't think his value is that low yet.

Yak is going into season #5, and most points he's had is 33.

best example of former 1st picks who have been traded:


Daigle - traded in his 5th season for a 2nd, Prospal and Falloon. Daigle played on some bad Sens teams, hit 51 points twice and 37 points once. Seems to be a good comparison with Yak, but this was a while ago...
 

Laoghaire

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i don't know enough to have an informed opinion, but I don't think his value is that low yet.

Yak is going into season #5, and most points he's had is 33.

best example of former 1st picks who have been traded:


Daigle - traded in his 5th season for a 2nd, Prospal and Falloon. Daigle played on some bad Sens teams, hit 51 points twice and 37 points once. Seems to be a good comparison with Yak, but this was a while ago...
Closest comparable is Patrick Stefan who was pretty much traded for a 7th rounder.
 

trentmccleary

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i don't know enough to have an informed opinion, but I don't think his value is that low yet.

Yak is going into season #5, and most points he's had is 33.

best example of former 1st picks who have been traded:


Daigle - traded in his 5th season for a 2nd, Prospal and Falloon. Daigle played on some bad Sens teams, hit 51 points twice and 37 points once. Seems to be a good comparison with Yak, but this was a while ago...

That was 37 points in 47 games for a 64 point pace. It was his best season... and then he convinced himself he was Brett Hull.
 
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