2016 HHOF Class

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,844
16,334
i inly saw older carlyle. stan smyl and him had some great battles in a david vs goliath sort of way.

is it fair to call him a rich man's dave babych? as in, excellent offensively but bad defensively to start, the opposite by the time he was a veteran?
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
Now on the 2017 class who gets in I think Selanne and kariya get in together idk about Alfie or Ray Whitney if there first ballot guys Whitney definitely not maybe he'll get in 10 years after being over looked cause the only original 6 team he played for was detroit he mainly played not in low market but small market teams, San Jose, which at the time they were a small market team Carolina, Florida, Columbus, Phoenix, and Dallas. And he also played a short stint for Edmonton who right now you could throw in as a small marker tam 1997-98 no they weren't.

Ray Whitney only gets into the HHOF if he buys a ticket, there are at least a dozen post expansion wingers that I would take over him.
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
i inly saw older carlyle. stan smyl and him had some great battles in a david vs goliath sort of way.

Is it fair to call him a rich man's dave babych? as in, excellent offensively but bad defensively to start, the opposite by the time he was a veteran?

Dunno about that Carlyle was always pretty decent defensively (for the 80's), he just played on some really poorly constructed teams in Pittsburgh and even Winnipeg.

Are the goalies he played in front of even top 150ish all time worthy?
 

Giotrapani91

Registered User
Oct 21, 2015
564
36
Ray Whitney only gets into the HHOF if he buys a ticket, there are at least a dozen post expansion wingers that I would take over him.

You gotta remember though if kariya, and makarov, can get in with a matter of time and another fact is Roenick and tkachuk played on a really small market team together he also played for atlanta another low market. And before you guys say he never played for Atlanta he did. And St. Louis is kinda small market but not really. and Roenick actually returned to Phoenix for a season, but Roenick played for philly, LA and San Jose, not low market teams small market maybe, Chicago not low market or small market they have that original 6 tradition..those two will get in. The media and press who selects these people a lot of them don't like the really low market teams cause you look at Dave Andreychuk he played on buffalo really low market in addition to playing for Boston, and Toronto, he played for jersey, and Colorado who aren't low market but small market teams. You could throw Tampa as a small market at that time.
 

Giotrapani91

Registered User
Oct 21, 2015
564
36
Ray Whitney will never get in. Like, 0% chance.

Um dude very underrated player key defensive piece to the hurricanes stanley cup win in 2006 dude he has more points than lanny mcdonald and he's in the hall he only has 1006 points Whitney has 1064 points. Propp is surprisingly two back from lanny and he'll never get in I mean playing on those flyers teams in the late 80s meant something didn't they
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,175
7,309
Regina, SK
Um dude very underrated player key defensive piece to the hurricanes stanley cup win in 2006 dude he has more points than lanny mcdonald and he's in the hall he only has 1006 points Whitney has 1064 points. Propp is surprisingly two back from lanny and he'll never get in I mean playing on those flyers teams in the late 80s meant something didn't they

defensive piece????

Superficially, one could make the case that Whitney is better than Propp, because he scored the same amount of points but just played in a lesser era. In fact, for peak offense their results are basically identical when compared to the offense of their eras.

However:

- It took Whitney over 300 more games to achieve the same career point total
- Whitney's point totals were padded with assists; 36% of his points were goals, 42.5% of Propp's points were goals
- Propp was the top offensive player on a very defensive yet very successful Flyers team over a period of 10 years. Why is it important that they were defensive? Because he scored less there than he could have in a more offensive environment (see Rick Middleton, Patrik Elias). From 1979-1989 he led the team in points twice, in points per game two other times, and four times was within three points of the leader. Over the decade he easily led the team in points. (true, this was because he was the only top player to spend the whole decade there, but out of players with more than 250 GP as a Flyer, only Kerr had a higher GPG and only Clarke had a higher APG - no one had a higher PPG - same story in the playoffs over this time) Whitney is not an all-time great player for any franchise, and tended to be a "bad team scorer".
- Propp went to the finals five times with three teams, leading the finalist 1985 Flyers in points by four points, in 1987 by a point, and had two other 23 point playoff runs in 1989 and 1991. Whitney missed the playoffs more than he made them, was 8th in scoring on the 2006 Hurricanes, only had one other 10+ point playoff, and finished with under half a point per game on his career. Propp played in 52 more playoff games, but had 95 more points in those games.
- Propp was a significantly more physical player
- Propp was a significantly better defensive player
- Propp killed as many penalties in just the 1984 and 1985 seasons as Whitney did in his entire career.

hmm, you weren't comparing Propp to Whitney, were you? Well anyway, there it is, in case anyone is wondering.

FWIW, I'd also take Propp over McDonald but it's close. Lanny is a weak HHOFer and Propp is among the better players left out.
 

tjcurrie

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
3,930
143
Gibbons, Alberta
Propp > Whitney

I really like Ray, as a player and as a person, incredible guy, but that doesn't get him the nod here.

As good as Ray was, and as underrated as he was/is, Propp was too.....and more.

Propp is a guy I actually feel bad for, in that he will likely never get into the HOF. His career is kind of in no-man's land. Not quuiiiite good enough for the honor, too good to be forgotten yet he kind of is.

Excellent for my North Stars in that 1991 playoff I will add. I remember him scoring that game 1 OT winner in Chicago like it was yesterday.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,981
Brooklyn
defensive piece????

Superficially, one could make the case that Whitney is better than Propp, because he scored the same amount of points but just played in a lesser era. In fact, for peak offense their results are basically identical when compared to the offense of their eras.

However:

- It took Whitney over 300 more games to achieve the same career point total
- Whitney's point totals were padded with assists; 36% of his points were goals, 42.5% of Propp's points were goals
- Propp was the top offensive player on a very defensive yet very successful Flyers team over a period of 10 years. Why is it important that they were defensive? Because he scored less there than he could have in a more offensive environment (see Rick Middleton, Patrik Elias). From 1979-1989 he led the team in points twice, in points per game two other times, and four times was within three points of the leader. Over the decade he easily led the team in points. (true, this was because he was the only top player to spend the whole decade there, but out of players with more than 250 GP as a Flyer, only Kerr had a higher GPG and only Clarke had a higher APG - no one had a higher PPG - same story in the playoffs over this time) Whitney is not an all-time great player for any franchise, and tended to be a "bad team scorer".
- Propp went to the finals five times with three teams, leading the finalist 1985 Flyers in points by four points, in 1987 by a point, and had two other 23 point playoff runs in 1989 and 1991. Whitney missed the playoffs more than he made them, was 8th in scoring on the 2006 Hurricanes, only had one other 10+ point playoff, and finished with under half a point per game on his career. Propp played in 52 more playoff games, but had 95 more points in those games.
- Propp was a significantly more physical player
- Propp was a significantly better defensive player
- Propp killed as many penalties in just the 1984 and 1985 seasons as Whitney did in his entire career.

hmm, you weren't comparing Propp to Whitney, were you? Well anyway, there it is, in case anyone is wondering.

FWIW, I'd also take Propp over McDonald but it's close. Lanny is a weak HHOFer and Propp is among the better players left out.

Didn't Propp only lead the Flyers in scoring twice? (this was news to me when I was first told).
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,175
7,309
Regina, SK
Didn't Propp only lead the Flyers in scoring twice? (this was news to me when I was first told).

Yes. I said he was "the top offensive player on the team over a period of 10 years". He led them twice, led in PPG twice and was within a few points of the leader four times. Over the whole period he easily led in total points and had a narrow PPG edge over players with fewer GP.

You don't have to lead the team every year for 10 years to be its best offensive player over a ten year period.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...c4comp=gt&c4val=&threshhold=5&order_by=points

If we were talking about a player who, over ten years, led the NHL in points twice, PPG twice and was within 3 points of the lead four times he would almost certainly be the best player in the aggregate unless every time he wasn't the leader, the same other guy always was, but that was not the case.
 

Sprague Cleghorn

User Registered
Aug 14, 2013
3,516
504
Edmonton, KY
So, looking at the Top Euros list, what would you guys think to be an approximate cutoff for HOF worthiness? I'd say around 20ish. I would also induct some of the early megastars of Euro hockey that arent around 20th as sort of a builder/player induction.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
So, looking at the Top Euros list, what would you guys think to be an approximate cutoff for HOF worthiness? I'd say around 20ish. I would also induct some of the early megastars of Euro hockey that arent around 20th as sort of a builder/player induction.

It's not like that list is or should be the final word on the matter, and it's very difficult to determine a cutoff anyway; you'd always go, "well, if x gets in, then y should get in too". For example, I'd hate to see Milan Novy (and Jiri Holik) get in but not Ivan Hlinka, since I don't like the gaps between them, or even their placements, on the list.

And it seems utopia right now that even players like Martinec and Holecek are ever going to make it. But just induct Sergei Makarov at least already! :shakehead
 

Sprague Cleghorn

User Registered
Aug 14, 2013
3,516
504
Edmonton, KY
It's not like that list is or should be the final word on the matter, and it's very difficult to determine a cutoff anyway; you'd always go, "well, if x gets in, then y should get in too". For example, I'd hate to see Milan Novy (and Jiri Holik) get in but not Ivan Hlinka, since I don't like the gaps between them, or even their placements, on the list.

And it seems utopia right now that even players like Martinec and Holecek are ever going to make it. But just induct Sergei Makarov at least already! :shakehead

Of course the list is not definitive, that's why I asked for a rough approximation. A better way of phrasing it could probably have been how many guys from the top Euros list do you guys think should be in the HOF.

However, I do believe that the first 20-30 guys did land somewhat close to where they should be ranked. Their exact placements are always going to be controversial but there is most likely more of a consensus on their placement range. Novy's ranked 19th on the list. You might disagree with that exact ranking, but most people would have him somewhere in that vicinity, whether it'd be 15th or 25th.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,175
7,309
Regina, SK
What about middleton

Middleton would not be a bad induction. He's better than a few contemporaries who are in that played wing (shutt, barber, lanny).

But the hall should get smaller, not bigger. You induct Middleton, then it's "what about propp and larmer?", then it's "what about Dave Taylor?", and just a few questions later you're asking "what about Wendel Clark?"
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,812
16,549
So, looking at the Top Euros list, what would you guys think to be an approximate cutoff for HOF worthiness? I'd say around 20ish. I would also induct some of the early megastars of Euro hockey that arent around 20th as sort of a builder/player induction.

Good estimate.
I mean... Bobrov would make a better induction than Novy as far as I'm concerned. Not that I think the panel ranked them incorrectly, mind you.
 

Giotrapani91

Registered User
Oct 21, 2015
564
36
Middleton would not be a bad induction. He's better than a few contemporaries who are in that played wing (shutt, barber, lanny).

But the hall should get smaller, not bigger. You induct Middleton, then it's "what about propp and larmer?", then it's "what about Dave Taylor?", and just a few questions later you're asking "what about Wendel Clark?"

Larmer, and Dave Taylor I can agree with Larmer definitely Wendell Clark maybe, only cause he was the Eric lindros of that era.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,683
84,506
Vancouver, BC
Um dude very underrated player key defensive piece to the hurricanes stanley cup win in 2006 dude he has more points than lanny mcdonald and he's in the hall he only has 1006 points Whitney has 1064 points. Propp is surprisingly two back from lanny and he'll never get in I mean playing on those flyers teams in the late 80s meant something didn't they

I don't care if he has more points than Lanny McDonald. He has zero chance of getting in. Pigs will fly first.

Turgeon has 300 more points than Whitney, and he isn't getting in, either.

Larmer, and Dave Taylor I can agree with Larmer definitely Wendell Clark maybe, only cause he was the Eric lindros of that era.

No. Just no.

Wendel Clark had 1 season over 60 points. His name should never be in the same sentence as Eric Lindros.
 

Iceman

Registered User
Jun 9, 2014
10,640
2,024
Haha Clark?? You mean ClarkE, the guy who has been in for decades.
 

Giotrapani91

Registered User
Oct 21, 2015
564
36
Haha Clark?? You mean ClarkE, the guy who has been in for decades.

You know what dude that's not funny clark was an amazing power forward not quite like lindros but was a great player. Same goes for Dave Taylor. Although Taylor wasn't a power forward. He was a playmaker.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,903
3,558
Edmonton
You know what dude that's not funny clark was an amazing power forward not quite like lindros but was a great player. Same goes for Dave Taylor. Although Taylor wasn't a power forward. He was a playmaker.

"Like" a Hart Trophy winning forward. Playstyle doesn't get you into the HHOF
 

Ad

Upcoming events

  • Toulouse vs Montpellier
    Toulouse vs Montpellier
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $246.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Hoffenheim vs RB Leipzig
    Hoffenheim vs RB Leipzig
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $8,351.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Torino vs Bologna
    Torino vs Bologna
    Wagers: 3
    Staked: $810.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Luton Town vs Everton
    Luton Town vs Everton
    Wagers: 4
    Staked: $1,010.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:
  • Getafe vs Athletic Bilbao
    Getafe vs Athletic Bilbao
    Wagers: 1
    Staked: $10.00
    Event closes
    • Updated:

Ad

Ad