Player Discussion: 2016 Draft round 4 #120 overall Otto Koivula

[The Winter Soldier]

Hey guys, yes he is gliding. But that is deceptive speed. My point was for a reported bad skater, this certainly passes my expectations. It reminds me of a Strome (Dylan) video of him skating through a team. Deceptive. It also illustrates puck skating speed. Ok, lets not get too carried away here. But I am impressed abeit only highlights. I may have to tune in a Bridgeport game to give my scouting report.

 

[danteipp]

Given Otto's size, his skating just needs to be adequate. Anything better than that is probably a bonus. I see some very nice stick-handling at the end of the rush and, perhaps most important, it appears that he keeps his head up and it is on a swivel as he cuts through traffic. He is a big target so on-ice awareness will be important for him to maintain his health in the NHL - especially when players like Tom Wilson are out there just looking to lay a cheap shot.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Given Otto's size, his skating just needs to be adequate. Anything better than that is probably a bonus. I see some very nice stick-handling at the end of the rush and, perhaps most important, it appears that he keeps his head up and it is on a swivel as he cuts through traffic. He is a big target so on-ice awareness will be important for him to maintain his health in the NHL - especially when players like Tom Wilson are out there just looking to lay a cheap shot.

You can't teach hockey smarts. From all reports he has the hands and instincts. It was just his skating. Would be interested in some Finnish fans commenting. My friend @kelsier is a Finnish hockey fan. He may have some thoughts.

Maybe #3C with Komarov would be a safe landing spot.

 

[kelsier]

You can't teach hockey smarts. From all reports he has the hands and instincts. It was just his skating. Would be interested in some Finnish fans commenting. My friend @kelsier is a Finnish hockey fan. He may have some thoughts.

Maybe #3C with Komarov would be a safe landing spot.

Okay well, in Koivula's case I'm kind of out of in the woods as of this moment. There was plenty of talk about his skill-set, mainly with his hands and scoring potential in the long run and of course because he was in the same summer training camp as Laine, Ristolainen, Rantanen etc, ran by the best development trainer in the country. I had high hopes for him going into the 2018 WJC as a 19 year old where he was playing in a top six role but he failed with the rest of the team. Then again, as said the whole team failed, but what can you expect when it's ran by an imbecile (the same coach that let Hepoeniemi double-shift whenever he wanted and rob off large proportions of Kakko ice time this year). Yeah they won gold this time around but not getting past the QF was just a minute away also. So what turned out to be the gold medal might have just as well been a quick exist out of which Ahokas (the head coach) is already very accustomed to.

Anyway skating has always been Otto's worst weakness. Since I haven't really kept a tag on him ever since moving across the Atlantic and playing in the AHL, I cannot really determine if he has been able to improve that aspect a lot. At least based on that clip, he seems to be able to keep up the pace with the glide so who knows, maybe he just needs time to sort out the technique. The bigger kids tend to need their own time to really find their game, pace and build up the physical core and Koivula is no exception to the rule. I'm hoping he could turn into something that we're talking heck of a lot about in the coming years but as of this moment unfortunately that's really everything I can provide to this particular discussion. I never thought he'd switch to playing C so that's a nice and positive surprise.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Okay well, in Koivula's case I'm kind of out of in the woods as of this moment. There was plenty of talk about his skill-set, mainly with his hands and scoring potential in the long run and of course because he was in the same summer training camp as Laine, Ristolainen, Rantanen etc, ran by the best development trainer in the country. I had high hopes for him going into the 2018 WJC as a 19 year old where he was playing in a top six role but he failed with the rest of the team. Then again, as said the whole team failed, but what can you expect when it's ran by an imbecile (the same coach that let Hepoeniemi double-shift whenever he wanted and rob off large proportions of Kakko ice time this year). Yeah they won gold this time around but not getting past the QF was just a minute away also. So what turned out to be the gold medal might have just as well been a quick exist out of which Ahokas (the head coach) is already very accustomed to.

Anyway skating has always been Otto's worst weakness. Since I haven't really kept a tag on him ever since moving across the Atlantic and playing in the AHL, I cannot really determine if he has been able to improve that aspect a lot. At least based on that clip, he seems to be able to keep up the pace with the glide so who knows, maybe he just needs time to sort out the technique. The bigger kids tend to need their own time to really find their game, pace and build up the physical core and Koivula is no exception to the rule. I'm hoping he could turn into something that we're talking heck of a lot about in the coming years but as of this moment unfortunately that's really everything I can provide to this particular discussion. I never thought he'd switch to playing C so that's a nice and positive surprise.

Thanks for the info.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Okay well, in Koivula's case I'm kind of out of in the woods as of this moment. There was plenty of talk about his skill-set, mainly with his hands and scoring potential in the long run and of course because he was in the same summer training camp as Laine, Ristolainen, Rantanen etc, ran by the best development trainer in the country. I had high hopes for him going into the 2018 WJC as a 19 year old where he was playing in a top six role but he failed with the rest of the team. Then again, as said the whole team failed, but what can you expect when it's ran by an imbecile (the same coach that let Hepoeniemi double-shift whenever he wanted and rob off large proportions of Kakko ice time this year). Yeah they won gold this time around but not getting past the QF was just a minute away also. So what turned out to be the gold medal might have just as well been a quick exist out of which Ahokas (the head coach) is already very accustomed to.

Anyway skating has always been Otto's worst weakness. Since I haven't really kept a tag on him ever since moving across the Atlantic and playing in the AHL, I cannot really determine if he has been able to improve that aspect a lot. At least based on that clip, he seems to be able to keep up the pace with the glide so who knows, maybe he just needs time to sort out the technique. The bigger kids tend to need their own time to really find their game, pace and build up the physical core and Koivula is no exception to the rule. I'm hoping he could turn into something that we're talking heck of a lot about in the coming years but as of this moment unfortunately that's really everything I can provide to this particular discussion. I never thought he'd switch to playing C so that's a nice and positive surprise.

Thanks Kelsier. That's really a lot of information there. Very helpful. From the clips I see, Koivula's hands are NHL caliber. His shootout ability Barkov-eques in the clips I see of him. I do agree about one part you brought up, often bigger kids at times need more time to develop. I look at Dylan Strome's development, and how since he was traded he is a PPG(1 pt shy) now over a 36 game sampling. Anyway, good info as always. If anyone knew about a Finnish player's development, it would be you. See on the other side of the Patty discussion. I have thoughts there on what is happening. I think he has quit on Maurice. But that is another discussion.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This kid makes shootouts look easy. Seen this a few times.

 

[Thrasymachus]

This kid makes shootouts look easy. Seen this a few times.

Normally I would complain this has already been posted, but damn if this isn't a sexy shootout move. I could watch this all day

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Normally I would complain this has already been posted, but damn if this isn't a sexy shootout move. I could watch this all day

Didn't know. Sorry. There are a few more sexy moves online. At least the Isles have here is a shoot out ringer! Hopefully Otto will be more than that.

BTW like the quiet to the Marlies crowd finish in the end. Kid's got some moxy.

I think that is 3-0 for the Isles org over the Leafs org this year.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

 

[PK Cronin]

He's not really skating in those highlights, they're showing him taking small steps and coasting, then relying on his hands to have success.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

He's not really skating in those highlights, they're showing him taking small steps and coasting, then relying on his hands to have success.

The first goal shows otto skating from his teams defensive end to other teams net. He didn't glide there. He skated there very smoothly. Second goal they show him skating from his own blue line to the other teams face off circles, shoots scores. He didn't just glide there, he skated. 3rd goal, dekes the entire team from the N zone to the net. Skated through with slick mits.

Have you ever played hockey or ice skated? Serious question, not being snarky. If not, I understand how skating can look like someone isn't coasting but in these dekes he's using his feet, and going end to end he's going 100%.

You also have to remember he's 6'5 230lbs. He's super athletic and fast for his size.

 

[PK Cronin]

The first goal shows otto skating from his teams defensive end to other teams net. He didn't glide there. He skated there very smoothly. Second goal they show him skating from his own blue line to the other teams face off circles, shoots scores. He didn't just glide there, he skated. 3rd goal, dekes the entire team from the N zone to the net. Skated through with slick mits.

Have you ever played hockey or ice skated? Serious question, not being snarky. If not, I understand how skating can look like someone isn't coasting but in these dekes he's using his feet, and going end to end he's going 100%.

You also have to remember he's 6'5 230lbs. He's super athletic and fast for his size.

There is nothing in those videos that demonstrates good skating ability. There's no power, there's no edge work, there's mostly just good hands and lots of space he's been given by the opponents. He's taking small strides and gliding.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

Hopefully we hit the lotto with Otto

[/B]

I'm ready to cash that lottery ticket

 

[NC 1972]

I posted

There is nothing in those videos that demonstrates good skating ability. There's no power, there's no edge work, there's mostly just good hands and lots of space he's been given by the opponents. He's taking small strides and gliding.

I posted something on this topic a while back. A big man will never look particularly fast I Refrenced Peter Mahovalich . Smaller players will take more strides then players like Koivula,at 6ft 5 you appear to be lumbering out there. Larger players tend to use reach to their advantage i.e. Lemiuex and Jager . But they cover ice quickly they don’t look as frenetic/exciting so there not as sexy.

 

[pursuit81]

I posted

I posted something on this topic a while back. A big man will never look particularly fast I Refrenced Peter Mahovalich . Smaller players will take more strides then players like Koivula,at 6ft 5 you appear to be lumbering out there. Larger players tend to use reach to their advantage i.e. Lemiuex and Jager . But they cover ice quickly they don’t look as frenetic/exciting so there not as sexy.

I'm not saying that OK is a great skater, but he's not a weak skater and there is a ton of truth in this comment. Mario Lemieux was the exception and not the rule for big men and there is no question that because each stride covers more ground, big men generally look slower and less agile without necessarily being so.

 

[13th Floor]

I posted

I posted something on this topic a while back. A big man will never look particularly fast I Refrenced Peter Mahovalich . Smaller players will take more strides then players like Koivula,at 6ft 5 you appear to be lumbering out there. Larger players tend to use reach to their advantage i.e. Lemiuex and Jager . But they cover ice quickly they don’t look as frenetic/exciting so there not as sexy.

I don't think it's exactly that. It's more that those highlights show more hands than feet. He's definitely not lumbering out there, or even looks like he's lumbering, but it still doesn't demonstrate 'good skating'. That first highlight is almost entirely hands. He takes a couple of strides, stops skating and makes a move with his hands, then takes a couple of strides and does the exact same thing. Neither move was made while skating and neither move demonstrated any type of quick cut or top speed considering they were both made while coasting. It was really just him stickhandling past two flat footed defenders. That's the exact type of play that doesn't translate when the defenders are a lot better and the game is moving a lot faster.

The second highlight is a better demonstration IMO where he has the presence of mind to stop and find a pocket to shoot. And, it's the one that actually gets me more excited because not only is it a damn human being in our organization that can quickly shoot and score, but it showed a smart play that is more likely to translate.

Not trying to poo-poo the guy -- we could definitely use him and I hope he can be something special.

 

[PK Cronin]

I posted

I posted something on this topic a while back. A big man will never look particularly fast I Refrenced Peter Mahovalich . Smaller players will take more strides then players like Koivula,at 6ft 5 you appear to be lumbering out there. Larger players tend to use reach to their advantage i.e. Lemiuex and Jager . But they cover ice quickly they don’t look as frenetic/exciting so there not as sexy.

Meh, that's only sometimes. Plenty of big men can move quick and if I'm specifically looking at his legs and they're taking two choppy steps and then coasting, that's not a good example of someone being a good skater. Blake Wheeler, Laine, Boyle, Bjugstad...they're all big men who demonstrate better skating on a regular basis than those Koivula highlights showed. I haven't seem him a ton so I won't call him a poor skater, but those highlights don't do it for me. As 13th points out, him pulling up and creating more space (against defenders with bad gap control) was probably the best part and it was the fact that he stopped skating that made it good. We'll get a better look this coming camp I'm sure.

 

[Islesfan22]

The executioner could also move really well for a big man to bad he played like a vagina.

 

[Islesfan22]

The first goal shows otto skating from his teams defensive end to other teams net. He didn't glide there. He skated there very smoothly. Second goal they show him skating from his own blue line to the other teams face off circles, shoots scores. He didn't just glide there, he skated. 3rd goal, dekes the entire team from the N zone to the net. Skated through with slick mits.

Have you ever played hockey or ice skated? Serious question, not being snarky. If not, I understand how skating can look like someone isn't coasting but in these dekes he's using his feet, and going end to end he's going 100%.

You also have to remember he's 6'5 230lbs. He's super athletic and fast for his size.

Love your optimism on our prospects. I like Otto from the little I have seen from him. Have to admit never was a MDC fan even back in his junior days. He’s improved a lot since then but I still don’t see a top 6 nhl winger.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

Love your optimism on our prospects. I like Otto from the little I have seen from him. Have to admit never was a MDC fan even back in his junior days. He’s improved a lot since then but I still don’t see a top 6 nhl winger.

It's optimism yes, but earned optimism. I watched Otto / MDC play great hockey last season in the A. Otto showing great promise his first year playing center and in North America.

MDC, showing HUGE improvement after 2 sub par season in the A. This past season his development took a huge leap forward and his skating / pace is on another level now.

If MDC was drafted in the 6th round in 2014 everyone would view his position differently. "Oh he had a great year in the A last season, put up huge PPG numbers in 34 AHL games, AHL all star, forced his way into the isles roster, 3 GWG, defensively responsible, young only 23."

Instead many choose to focus on his draft status. "Yea but he was drafted 5th overall, he hasn't done what we all expected"

It's all a matter of how you choose to look at it. I know what I saw last season from both. I don't pay attention to draft status.

 

[Islesfan22]

It’s kind of hard to just ignore draft status. If your a top 5 pick in the nhl draft expectations are you will be a top 6 forward or a top pairing defenseman. I admit that I never watched MDC in the Ahl. I have watched him in junior and of course the nhl and never was really all that impressed.

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

You can't assess a players prior season and have their draft status influence your eyes. A players draft status is something the players have no control over. Young men being drafted at 17/18, some take longer than others. Some never pan out. Some become good players but not great. Some are drafted in the 2nd round, take 4 years to develop but turn into stars. Some turn into 40 goal scorers 6th rounders future captain Anders Lee. Some are slower developers like Ryan Pulock but now are our #1 D man.

Would anyone here be upset if MDC turned into a reliable defensively responsible forward that pops in 20g-20a every year with a +5. Let's say that's what happens, I think he can put up more points than that. What does his draft status mean at this point? New era, new GM, new coach, new arena, new everything.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone started with a clean slate in the lou + trotz era.

 

[pursuit81]

You can't assess a players prior season and have their draft status influence your eyes. A players draft status is something the players have no control over. Young men being drafted at 17/18, some take longer than others. Some never pan out. Some become good players but not great. Some are drafted in the 2nd round, take 4 years to develop but turn into stars. Some turn into 40 goal scorers 6th rounders future captain Anders Lee. Some are slower developers like Ryan Pulock but now are our #1 D man.

Would anyone here be upset if MDC turned into a reliable defensively responsible forward that pops in 20g-20a every year with a +5. Let's say that's what happens, I think he can put up more points than that. What does his draft status mean at this point? New era, new GM, new coach, new arena, new everything.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone started with a clean slate in the lou + trotz era.

Generally agree. Would have been nice if the contract slate could have been wiped clean for a few guys too..................

 

[MJF]

Love your optimism on our prospects. I like Otto from the little I have seen from him. Have to admit never was a MDC fan even back in his junior days. He’s improved a lot since then but I still don’t see a top 6 nhl winger.

Maybe that’s because he was converted to center last November and flourished in that role.

I saw Koivula in Bridgeport several times last season and twice in the playoffs. I saw a guy who skated ok, has a good wrister, good on faceoffs, and had chemistry with Wahlstrom and Bellows. Right now I think Koivula projects well as a 3rd center.

If Otto Koivula has a good camp I expect him to be the Isles first callup to replace a center.