Speculation: 2016-2017 Season Roster Discussion - Part 3

[lanky]

The same Hanzal who has missed 93 games over the last 4 seasons?

yeah, that guy. The top centreman on the free agent market.

 

[Jamieh]

Joe Thornton says Hi. And Mike Fisher. Not saying either are achievable.

yeah, that guy. The top centreman on the free agent market.

 

[Jakey53]

That's completely ignoring the growth you hope to see from your young players. The Coyotes are not a veteran laden team that has reached they are what they are status (or WYSIWIG as rt calls it). They're still a team that needs to patiently wait for the fruits of their rebuild to ripen. We've been down that trying to compete while rebuilding road and it hasn't been very successful. I'm not against acquiring Stepan if he comes relatively cheap but I like Hanzal because he costs zero assets! Granted it's probably moot as Hanzal's ask will likely be too high anyway.

I think the sad reality is that as fans we simply don't have the stomach for a true rebuild. It'd certainly be easier if we didn't also face the threat of relocation yearly as well.

This team has never had a proper rebuild since moving here, and if we did, most would understand how a rebuild works. We are finally rebuilding the right way, so the fans really have no choice but to stomach it. I really do not see why there is so much negativity with this team and the rebuild. I think we are building a very deep team with talent on all lines. We may not have a super star in the bunch, but hopefully have many star players.

 

[Jakey53]

That's highly optimistic at this point. I like Domi but he has not shown the ability to be a 1st line winger who can outshine his center. I'm not sure we actually have any true 1st line forwards on the Coyotes right now but I could see a couple able to play the wings with a really good center.

I agree, but as our talent matures, other teams will find it harder to defend against our talent. As it is now, Domi attracts a lot of attention from other teams.

 

[Jakey53]

The Boyle types gives the kids some protection and someone to learn from without costing a lot of money. It also provides some muscle if needed and he can move down the line up as quickly as a kid can take his place. It would make the Coyotes a grinding team with young developing skill coming thru which is about as good as we can expect next season.

I wouldn't be against signing Boyle. Not as good as Hanzal, but will be much cheaper and less term.

Just what we need is a 3rd or 4th top 6 LW. I just don't see any primo 1C available to us by trade and free agency. That's why I'd like to resign Hanzal. He can more than hold his own defensively against the top 1C in the league and will give Strome an Dvorak time to mature into the role. I know that he won't put up big points, but who out there will, and at the same time play well on defense?

I think Hanzal will want more money and term than what the Coyotes are willing to do.

Re-signing Hanzal to a contract of 4 years or less is pretty much the best case scenario for the roster this off season.

It will depend on $ and term for Hanzal. I think we should move on from Hanzal.

The same Hanzal who has missed 93 games over the last 4 seasons? I can't imagine what the next 4 years look like as he gets older.

Exactly.

60 games of Hanzal and 20 games of Holland/Juris or 80 games of Holland/Juris?

I would rather just have Dauphin than the Hollands of the world. T

 

[Kaibur]

Thoughts on pursuing undated Darren Raddysh? Plays with Strome in Erie. RHD.

I like the idea, but it seems like we've already got enough D prospects coming in next year. What type of ice time could he be promised?

Mermis-Wood
Capobianco-Clifton
Smereck-Mayo

That's a pretty young and inexperienced AHL D-corps and they'll need to bring in a couple of vets to replace Z, McBain, and Burlon. Not to mention, they hold Tinordi's rights.

 

[rt]

^ I suspect there's maybe one nhler on that list. Two if we are extremely lucky. Just as likely that none ever make an impact.

EDIT: you're talking AHL D. My bad.

 

[rt]

The Boyle types gives the kids some protection and someone to learn from without costing a lot of money. It also provides some muscle if needed and he can move down the line up as quickly as a kid can take his place. It would make the Coyotes a grinding team with young developing skill coming thru which is about as good as we can expect next season.

Boyle is fine. But Tippett said top center. Not even this gang of hucksters could spin Boyle as that.

 

[Jamieh]

I'm just trying to ignore history and stay positive!!! Duchene and Nuge might the best two achievable centers this year but not sure if they would be worth the cost?? My suggestion was more if a way to keep costs down and leave an open path for the kids when they are ready. No idea if learning curve for Strome will be more Matthews style or Scheifele??

Boyle is fine. But Tippett said top center. Not even this gang of hucksters could spin Boyle as that. Bozak? As laughable as the idea is, anointing him a top center is exactly the style of our leadership group.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm just trying to ignore history and stay positive!!! Duchene and Nuge might the best two achievable centers this year but not sure if they would be worth the cost?? My suggestion was more if a way to keep costs down and leave an open path for the kids when they are ready. No idea if learning curve for Strome will be more Matthews style or Scheifele??

I have said for awhile now that I would wait another year before I rush into a big deal. I want to see how the kids perform next year as we are not at that contender stage yet.

 

[Jamieh]

Agree but kids need some protection. As an example Matthews started as 3rd line center with two 2nd/3rd guys doing the heavy lifting early and giving him better matchup. When he proved he could move up the lineup everyone else just shifted down. That's the scenario I would suggest for Strome.

I have said for awhile now that I would wait another year before I rush into a big deal. I want to see how the kids perform next year as we are not at that contender stage yet.

 

[IPreferPi]

Bozak is an offensive 2C at best who is good at draws. But he is not a good defensive center (according to both the eye test and advanced stats) and I wouldn't put him in a shutdown role.

If we can't swing a trade for Stepan I'd rather move for Plekanec, Lehtera, or Soderberg before Bozak. Those guys I trust more at being 40+ point shutdown centers.

 

[Mosby]

60 games of Hanzal and 20 games of Holland/Juris or 80 games of Holland/Juris?

Neither. Let's change the look of this team.

That's a pretty young and inexperienced AHL D-corps and they'll need to bring in a couple of vets to replace Z, McBain, and Burlon. Not to mention, they hold Tinordi's rights.

McBain gets all kinds of points for Tucson. I suspect he's re-signed.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

yeah, that guy. The top centreman on the free agent market.

Hanzal is not a 1C. He's barely a 2C on a competent team. He's a big checking center who doesn't score a lot of points and doesn't play a full season due to injuries. He's going to want money and term and this team's pocketbook strings are too tight to give him that.

I really do not see why there is so much negativity with this team and the rebuild.

Rebuilds work best on teams where fans know that they'll be around to see the fruits of a rebuild. Rebuilds aren't popular when every single season might be the last one for the team in the market. I don't see what that's so hard to understand unless you have some misconception that this team is at all stable off the ice.

 

[Mosby]

What I have right now:

Domi - Stepan - Keller
Perlini - Dvorak - Vrbata
Crouse - Strome - Rieder
Nook - Richardson - Fischer

Swap Keller and Perlini if you're hung up on line combos.

Fitting Duclair is a challenge. I wonder if the Rangers would be interested in re-acquiring him as part of a Stepan deal?

 

[Jakey53]

What I have right now:

Domi - Stepan - Keller
Perlini - Dvorak - Vrbata
Crouse - Strome - Rieder
Nook - Richardson - Fischer

Swap Keller and Perlini if you're hung up on line combos.

Fitting Duclair is a challenge. I wonder if the Rangers would be interested in re-acquiring him as part of a Stepan deal?

Talking trades and signings I forgot about Richardson. Stephan would be ideal, but at what expense?

 

[Jakey53]

Hanzal is not a 1C. He's barely a 2C on a competent team. He's a big checking center who doesn't score a lot of points and doesn't play a full season due to injuries. He's going to want money and term and this team's pocketbook strings are too tight to give him that.



Rebuilds work best on teams where fans know that they'll be around to see the fruits of a rebuild. Rebuilds aren't popular when every single season might be the last one for the team in the market. I don't see what that's so hard to understand unless you have some misconception that this team is at all stable off the ice.

The off ice stuff is beyond our control. Enjoy the rebuild and what happens happens.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The off ice stuff is beyond our control. Enjoy the rebuild and what happens happens.

You said you couldn't understand the negativity. I explained it. Saying, "Enjoy it anyway" is a nice sentiment but a bit unrealistic.

 

[Kaibur]

We need McGinn to be taken in expansion or included in a trade for a stop-gap center. Hopefully he plays well in the last 8 games and bolsters his value a little.

Any chance New Jersey would move Henrique?

 

[Mosby]

Staple a pick to McGinn and Vegas should take him. Maybe the conditional pick from Minny?

 

[Mosby]

In terms of options up front, I wonder if we revisit KHLers Evgeny Dadonov (28 yrs old) and Vadim Shipachev (30 yrs old)? Supposedly Chayka reached out last year.

Dadonov - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=96427

Shipachev - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=93584

I don't know anything about these players but sounds like the $ asking is pretty high as per Friedman. The next Radulov(s)?

 

[TheLegend]

I forget where I saw the stat, but for one of our losing seasons we were somewhere around 8th place in the whole league for FO wins yet still near the bottom of the league standings. Seems even when we were able to win a FO, we weren't able to do much with the puck.

IIRC.... Last year with Vermette - Hanzal - Richardson - Gordon down the middle we were first or second in FO wins for most of the season with Carolina.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

In terms of options up front, I wonder if we revisit KHLers Evgeny Dadonov (28 yrs old) and Vadim Shipachev (30 yrs old)? Supposedly Chayka reached out last year.

Dadonov - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=96427

Shipachev - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=93584

I don't know anything about these players but sounds like the $ asking is pretty high as per Friedman. The next Radulov(s)?

This would be a much better idea than grabbing Stepan or resigning Hanzal or going after Bozak. They wouldn't cost us a draft pick or one of our highly touted prospects and then Strome can come in and play 3rd line. Let's just say we get Shipachev

Domi/Shipachev/Keller
Perlini/Dvorak/Vrbata
Crouse/Strome/Fischer
Martinook/Richardson/Rieder

 

[Heldig]

There is usually a team that bombs in the playoffs and looks to make big changes. Typically an older or veteran roster that decides to add youth. There could be a top 6 C available. Stepan could be an example.

 

[KG]

IIRC.... Last year with Vermette - Hanzal - Richardson - Gordon down the middle we were first or second in FO wins for most of the season with Carolina.

Very interesting.