Speculation: 2016-2017 Season Roster Discussion - Part 3

[SniperHF]

Hanzal to Montreal?
Stone to somewhere?
Loading up for the playoffs?

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[Bonsai Tree]

I don't think that Duclair should be on the top line. As a second line RW he would spend less time defending agianst top lines. I think that Fischer could handle the defensive responsibilities of a first line better than Duclair. I would like to give Fischer a shot at the top line next year to see what he can do.

 

[Hinterland]

I don't think that Duclair should be on the top line. As a second line RW he would spend less time defending agianst top lines. I think that Fischer could handle the defensive responsibilities of a first line better than Duclair. I would like to give Fischer a shot at the top line next year to see what he can do.

Doesn't matter if first, second or third line. Hard to dictate lineups away from home...if you're Dave Tippett it doesn't make it any easier. Even if you're at home it's difficult when you got Coaches like Cooper or Quenneville coming in who basically change their lines every other shift. Really hard to hide a guy nowadays. Even Paul Maurice was all over that McGinn/Holland line recently.
What Duclair needs is the right linemates and offensive zone starts. I agree that Fischer is excellent defensively though. Solid hockey IQ, not only offensive instincts. Needs to work on puckhandling, passing and skating. Probably just a question of adjusting to the NHL though.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Doesn't matter if first, second or third line. Hard to dictate lineups away from home...if you're Dave Tippett it doesn't make it any easier. Even if you're at home it's difficult when you got Coaches like Cooper or Quenneville coming in who basically change their lines every other shift. Really hard to hide a guy nowadays. Even Paul Maurice was all over that McGinn/Holland line recently.
What Duclair needs is the right linemates and offensive zone starts. I agree that Fischer is excellent defensively though. Solid hockey IQ, not only offensive instincts. Needs to work on puckhandling, passing and skating. Probably just a question of adjusting to the NHL though.

As far as dictating lineups away from home - you have 41 home games and 41 away games. Half the time, you get the last line change, and half the time you don't. Highly doubt that each opposing coach on home ice sees Duclair on the ice and puts out his top forward line automatically. There might be small matchups based on what the scenario is (face/off in offensive, defensive, or neutral zone; game score; period; etc.). I think you are over-stating the concept that a specific player or line is targetted, even though we are all aware that it does happen.

Duclair is getting 57% of his zone starts in the offensive end. Down from 61% last year. Even though down from the previous year, the effort is still there to give him decent zone starts. But if he wants to be an NHL player, we can't shelter for the next 5 years by only starting him in the offensive zone 60% + of the time.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Trade Hanzal and Stone (retain salary on both) to Columbus for Zaar, Forsberg, 1st round pick, and 2018 4th round pick.

Columbus isn't eager to add expiring contracts, but we get a right hand shot and another goalie prospect in the system, along with two picks. If CBJ is concerned about expiring deals, do we float Hanzal and Duclair out there? Small chance to work something for Anderson or Jenner if Hanzal/Duclair are offered, IMO. Very small chance, but small chance that it is enough to offset value difference.

 

[Ebb]

Trade Hanzal and Stone (retain salary on both) to Columbus for Zaar, Forsberg, 1st round pick, and 2018 4th round pick.

Columbus isn't eager to add expiring contracts, but we get a right hand shot and another goalie prospect in the system, along with two picks. If CBJ is concerned about expiring deals, do we float Hanzal and Duclair out there? Small chance to work something for Anderson or Jenner if Hanzal/Duclair are offered, IMO. Very small chance, but small chance that it is enough to offset value difference.

I can't see Hanzal and Stone (together) bringing a 1st (even a late one) alone, much less throwing in two additional prospect and a 4th. I'd say it would be closer to Hanzal and Stone for Zaar, prospect, and a 3rd (or possibly a 2nd without the second prospect).

And, while I'd like to acquire Forsberg, I'm guessing they'll try to keep as many Finns and Swedes as they can, so I kind of doubt they'd be willing to move Zaar. Now, I bet we could get an awesome return from them for OEL

 

[Hinterland]

https://www.nhl.com/news/arizona-co...tnings-ondrej-palat/c-286059276?tid=277549076

 

[kihekah19*]

https://www.nhl.com/news/arizona-co...tnings-ondrej-palat/c-286059276?tid=277549076

I was waiting for someone to post this.... worth every penny!

 

[Plub]

Meh, Palat was being a dick all game.

 

[kihekah19*]

Meh, Palat was being a dick all game.

Sometimes a guy just needs a good ol' fashioned cold cocking.

 

[rt]

No goalies.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Is Strome a trade chip now? Strome on an ELC returns what player from a cap/exp lottery challenged team? What (or do) the Coyotes need to add to these deals?

Strome for Stepan?
Strome for Kuznetsov?

 

[Kaibur]

Is Strome a trade chip now? Strome on an ELC returns what player from a cap/exp lottery challenged team? What (or do) the Coyotes need to add to these deals?

Strome for Stepan?
Strome for Kuznetsov?

Yotes just need to be patient and see how Strome develops. He should be close to physically ready by October.

 

[Hinterland]

Yotes just need to be patient and see how Strome develops. He should be close to physically ready by October.

Exactly. Still excited to have Strome. Makes little sense to trade him for an older guy now while we're rebuilding. Taller guys and centers typically need longer to adapt to the pro game so I'm not at all worried.

On a sidenote, I'm also convinced that contenders like the Caps or the Rags aren't desperate to trade away their top guys just because of the expansion...and if they do, for example to get cap relief, they would want a player back who can play right away. They won't care much about losing a pretty good player to Vegas. All they want is a deep cup run.

 

[SniperHF]

Yeah I think most of the expansion is over nothing. Mostly media filling time last summer and fans being fans. There are a couplethree teams who might have an interest in making a deal before to mitigate the damage but not many.

 

[hbk]

The expansion moves will happen right before expansion draft /post playoffs.

 

[strizzy16]

Exactly. Still excited to have Strome. Makes little sense to trade him for an older guy now while we're rebuilding. Taller guys and centers typically need longer to adapt to the pro game so I'm not at all worried.

So true. People wanting to trade Strome are very simply overreacting.

Johansen = decent comparable. 6'3" Centers. Drafted 2010. First year, juniors. He made the team in his second year. not many points scored in that rookie year, normal for a rookie obviously, then back in the minors, then, not many points scored during the lockout season, either. Breakout year in his 4th year post-draft, 63 points.

Strome is about to be in his 3rd year, post-draft. We compare him to Eichel and Mcdavid but that isn't fair when you consider a NORMAL development pattern

 

[Plub]

Is Strome a trade chip now? Strome on an ELC returns what player from a cap/exp lottery challenged team? What (or do) the Coyotes need to add to these deals?

Strome for Stepan?
Strome for Kuznetsov?

I think he should be.

 

[Guest]

I think the people are getting all excited over expansion deals are focusing on the wrong things. I remember previous expansions, where as many might be encountering their first.

The cheapest option is usually for the expansion teams to cut a deal with teams in trouble. You go to Vegas and say I will give you this or that if you do not take this this player or I will give you this if you pick from this list of players. A team like the Coyotes offers a little competition because then a team could say, "Oh, we'll just trade them to Arizona for a better deal."

I do not expect to see much expansion movement other than LV taking advantage of their position.

 

[hbk]

I think the people are getting all excited over expansion deals are focusing on the wrong things. I remember previous expansions, where as many might be encountering their first.

The cheapest option is usually for the expansion teams to cut a deal with teams in trouble. You go to Vegas and say I will give you this or that if you do not take this this player or I will give you this if you pick from this list of players. A team like the Coyotes offers a little competition because then a team could say, "Oh, we'll just trade them to Arizona for a better deal."

I do not expect to see much expansion movement other than LV taking advantage of their position.

I disagree. Goaltenders will definitely move. fleury must go given NTC/NMC clause that would require him being protected and exposing Murray. Similarly, Toby Enstrom in Winnipeg has to be protected because of a NTC/NMC clause meaning one of Myers or Trouba would be exposed. If they elect to protect 4D then 3 of Armia, Dano, Perreault, And Stafford become available.

The NTC/NMC effect didn't occur in previous expansion drafts. Cap friendly has a tool where you can go through opposing rosters to see who needs to move what.

 

[Hinterland]

I disagree. Goaltenders will definitely move. fleury must go given NTC/NMC clause that would require him being protected and exposing Murray. Similarly, Toby Enstrom in Winnipeg has to be protected because of a NTC/NMC clause meaning one of Myers or Trouba would be exposed. If they elect to protect 4D then 3 of Armia, Dano, Perreault, And Stafford become available.

The NTC/NMC effect didn't occur in previous expansion drafts. Cap friendly has a tool where you can go through opposing rosters to see who needs to move what.

Like I wrote in an earlier post...if you're a clear contender you're not gonna worry about losing a pretty good player to Vegas. Depending on who it is that you're in danger to lose you may try to pay Vegas for not selecting a particular player. But that's about it. I don't see rebuilding times giving away their prospects just to help contenders out.

Fleury has to waive his NMC or he's not gonna go anywhere at all. As I don't see why he should waive his NMC the Pens will probably have to buy him out.

Like others posted already, people are probably excited about nothing.

 

[hbk]

Like I wrote in an earlier post...if you're a clear contender you're not gonna worry about losing a pretty good player to Vegas. Depending on who it is that you're in danger to lose you may try to pay Vegas for not selecting a particular player. But that's about it. I don't see rebuilding times giving away their prospects just to help contenders out.

Fleury has to waive his NMC or he's not gonna go anywhere at all. As I don't see why he should waive his NMC the Pens will probably have to buy him out.

Like others posted already, people are probably excited about nothing.

All the Fleury trade talk right now is from Fleury's agent. He has sat for 6 in a row and just wants to play. Worst k pt secret right now is Flyers trading for Fleury prior to expansioN draft.

I think if u have choice of losing a player that Vegas and get nothing and snaggging a pick or prospect that is waiver exempt u take the asset.

 

[zerekstar]

I'm not much at figuring these out so my values may be off but here is my shot at turning the team around for next year.

Murphy and Duclair plus a 3rd round pick to NYI for Harmonic who we can flip to Winnipeg for Trouba. Trouba then could play first pairing with OEL. Duclair lights it up with Tavares.

Our 2017 1st plus Stone, plus a prospect, plus a conditional 2018 2nd if Stone does not resign to Colorado for Duchene.

Trade Hanzal for a first round pick so we still get one or we can just resign him.

Perlini Duchene Keller
Domi Burmistrov Strome/Reider
Crouse Dvorak Fischer
Martinook Richardson/Dauphine White


OEL Trouba
Gologoski DeAngelo
Chychrun Schenn
Connauton Wood


Smith
Domingue

 

[Hinterland]

I'm not much at figuring these out so my values may be off but here is my shot at turning the team around for next year.

Murphy and Duclair plus a 3rd round pick to NYI for Harmonic who we can flip to Winnipeg for Trouba. Trouba then could play first pairing with OEL. Duclair lights it up with Tavares.

Our 2017 1st plus Stone, plus a prospect, plus a conditional 2018 2nd if Stone does not resign to Colorado for Duchene.

Trade Hanzal for a first round pick so we still get one or we can just resign him.

Perlini Duchene Keller
Domi Burmistrov Strome/Reider
Crouse Dvorak Fischer
Martinook Richardson/Dauphine White


OEL Trouba
Gologoski DeAngelo
Chychrun Schenn
Connauton Wood


Smith
Domingue

Don't think Keller will play in the NHL anytime soon. Burmistrov has looked good so far...but remains to be seen whether he'll be good enough to stick when Strome and Richardson return next season. Might also depend on Hanzal. If they wanna trade him, the plan is probably to do it right before the deadline. The way Tippett uses him now, there's a good chance he'll be injured by then.

Either way, I don't see us trading for big names. We're in a rebuild so it would make little sense. Duchene is too small and weak for Tippett anyway..and what you wanna give away is crazy. Stone had some health issues lately...but his value should still be pretty high. Since the Hall trade we all know what you have to pay for solid defensemen. Our 2017 pick is likely to be a top5 one. Even though the draft is not expected to be a big one, there's no way we're gonna trade that pick for a veteran player.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I don't think there will be as many expansion related trades as the media is trying to say there will be. Some teams like TB and Pitt will make moves. I think Pitt will just buyout Fleury tho..

But for a lot of teams I don't think it makes sense to make a move. They have too many good players where if they trade one they're still going to lose another. Like Minnesota, if they trade 1 dman they're still going to lose 1 good in expansion. It would make more sense to just let Vegas take 1 player. No need to force a trade and then start the next season without 2 good dmen.