2016-2017 Blues Prospects Part IV

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Fabbri would be perfect for center. Playing around the boards will wear him down, and center provides him more space to distribute the puck and drive the net. Fabbri should at least get a chance to play full-time center next year for an extended period of time.

I don't get where all the "center is a physical position" comes from, but I imagine someone will illuminate me. He can play defense, and he has the speed to play a 200 ft game.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

Fabbri would be perfect for center. Playing around the boards will wear him down, and center provides him more space to distribute the puck and drive the net. Fabbri should at least get a chance to play full-time center next year for an extended period of time.

I don't get where all the "center is a physical position" comes from, but I imagine someone will illuminate me. He can play defense, and he has the speed to play a 200 ft game.

Well, you talk about him wearing down physically along the boards, and that's a fair point, but what about him wearing down in front of the net? If he's in a position to make room and put his body in front of a 6'5" goalie and the puck, while getting cross checked from behind by a 6'4" d-man, how long is he supposed to survive physically there? On the rush, sure, he'd be a great center. But we've never been a team that does a ton off the rush. If that changes, I don't mind it. But I think it's important to realize what we are, and how Fabbri would fit into that system. I'd rather have Fabbri working creatively down low, or near the dots than trying to cause a ruckus in front of the net. It's not where his creativity is best utilized

 

[Oberyn]

Fabbri would be perfect for center. Playing around the boards will wear him down, and center provides him more space to distribute the puck and drive the net. Fabbri should at least get a chance to play full-time center next year for an extended period of time.

I don't get where all the "center is a physical position" comes from, but I imagine someone will illuminate me. He can play defense, and he has the speed to play a 200 ft game.

Physical as in he's going to get matched up against big centers and will have to defend against them constantly. I remember a shift where Fabbri was defending against an opposing center and was literally bouncing off of him when he tried to push him off the puck. He plays defense but he's not particularly good at it at this point in time, and will likely get torn apart by guys like Getzlaf/Kopitar/Thornton/Toews/Koivu.

Playing center will likely give him more options to distribute the puck, but it also comes with heavier defensive responsibilities. I'm not opposed to auditioning him in that role next season but if it doesn't work out then he should be moved back to wing.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

Not sure how you can say Fabbri isn't built for center at the NHL level but Kyrou is. Kyrou is one of my favorite prospects, but if Fabbri is unable to handle the physicality and responsibility that comes with playing center, then Kyrou is even more unlikely to make that transition.

Im curious on how you got to that conclusion. He is able to create/ finish plays and is 6'0 to Fabs 5'10. Both played C previously, but from what I've seen(albeit a limited amount from Kyrou compared to Fabbri) he can create room with his body compared to the speed/agility Fabbri shows on the wings.

Fabbri would be perfect for center. Playing around the boards will wear him down, and center provides him more space to distribute the puck and drive the net. Fabbri should at least get a chance to play full-time center next year for an extended period of time.

I don't get where all the "center is a physical position" comes from, but I imagine someone will illuminate me. He can play defense, and he has the speed to play a 200 ft game.

Im open to giving him a chance, hell I want to give Vladi a chance at C. I do agree 15 is extremely creative and when he was with 91 he was creating opportunity every shift it seemed. But when you have NHL/almost NHL ready people that can/have/are play C I would rather push that over transitioning players 6'3-6'5 205 players that can be a net front presence to a wing. Like everyone here I love 15, but I don't agree that he is a better fit to play C over BBshv/TT/Sanford.

As for Center being a physical position, I think it can be at times. Yea TJ on the shows how you can be effective and smaller in size. But with the talent we have on the wings and the shot capability we have on D, we need bodies to get in front of that net and create chaos with deflections, screens and rebounds. I think Fabbri can get in for rebounds and some deflections, but if he tries posting up it will be more physically taxing on him than board battles.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Fabbri is "bigger" than Giroux, but maybe 1 inch smaller. Fabbri's still putting on muscle, and Giroux made playing at center work in an era that was more physical. I think Fabbri still has a shot of being a center for us, but it will likely hinge on how we transition. I can't help but think of this from the perspective of one that values quick transition and counter-attack. However, I think it is clear that Armstrong isn't as keen on switching to that style as we are.

I feel like we as a board have a pretty good handle on what works in this league and where this team should be going. It seems that Armstrong just disagrees with us, and that's why we are often off about what we should be looking for in return for our players. The vision alone makes me want to get rid of Armstrong early. #EastonForGM

 

[Oberyn]

Im curious on how you got to that conclusion. He is able to create/ finish plays and is 6'0 to Fabs 5'10. Both played C previously, but from what I've seen(albeit a limited amount from Kyrou compared to Fabbri) he can create room with his body compared to the speed/agility Fabbri shows on the wings.

I don't think Kyrou will be particularly effective at handling the defensive responsibilities of a center. He's also bigger than Fabbri but he doesn't have the grittiness that Fabbri possesses. Not that grit is a necessity to play center, but Kyrou will likely match up against players that are bigger than him and I do think he'll be outmatched in that regard.

 

[Stealth JD]

Any discussion about Kyrou at the NHL level is silly until we've at least seen him in an NHL training camp first. He doesn't look like a NHL'er to me in those videos. There's more to pro hockey than being a fast skater with good stick skills. I'd suspect he needs another 2-3 years of development before he's included in any Blues lineup.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

I don't think Kyrou will be particularly effective at handling the defensive responsibilities of a center. He's also bigger than Fabbri but he doesn't have the grittiness that Fabbri possesses. Not that grit is a necessity to play center, but Kyrou will likely match up against players that are bigger than him and I do think he'll be outmatched in that regard.

I agree that Fabbri plays a gritty game, and he may be able to transition to C, but i think it will change his game a lot. My Kyrou exposure is limited compared to Fabbri, but I dont personally see Kyrou being less effective at the C position.

Regardless I miss Fabbri

 

[TK 421]

The extent of my computer skills consists of finding my way here and shooting radioactive green bears on Oregon Trail (the 80's game where wagons always break and Susie gets typhoid with stunning regularity). So I can't post a link but check out the recap of Jake Walman's season so far at Dobber Prospects. Written this month though I think before his recent 2g2a output. Highlights are that he was tied for 1st in pts among NCAA defensemen on a 10th place team and is averaging 3.6 shots per game.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

The extent of my computer skills consists of finding my way here and shooting radioactive green bears on Oregon Trail (the 80's game where wagons always break and Susie gets typhoid with stunning regularity). So I can't post a link but check out the recap of Jake Walman's season so far at Dobber Prospects. Written this month though I think before his recent 2g2a output. Highlights are that he was tied for 1st in pts among NCAA defensemen on a 10th place team and is averaging 3.6 shots per game.

I prefered the "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego" game

or Odell Lake

...I never died from dysentery in them

 

[STL fan in MN]

The extent of my computer skills consists of finding my way here and shooting radioactive green bears on Oregon Trail (the 80's game where wagons always break and Susie gets typhoid with stunning regularity). So I can't post a link but check out the recap of Jake Walman's season so far at Dobber Prospects. Written this month though I think before his recent 2g2a output. Highlights are that he was tied for 1st in pts among NCAA defensemen on a 10th place team and is averaging 3.6 shots per game.

I've seen Walman play a couple of times this season. Perhaps not as dynamic as last season but he's playing monster minutes so it appears he's concentrating on his two-way game more as opposed to pushing the pace offensively. He seems to be playing all over as both times I've watched him, he's played both the left and right sides about evenly throughout the games - probably because he's being double shifted so it looks like they're putting him on whatever side is needed depending on who his partner is that particular shift.

He's not tied for 1st in pts among NCAA denesemen though. He's 1st on his team among d-men but only has the 19th most pts among NCAA d-men. The guy at Dobber probably could've worded that sentence better.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?season=2016&leagueid=NCAA&pos=Defensemen&leagueteam=&teamname=&nation=&nationname=&age=&prospects=

Here's a link to the Dobber blurb on him:

http://www.dobberprospects.com/jake-walman/

I expect Jake to turn pro this summer. Heck, maybe even soon depending on when the Friars season ends and could possibly finish the season with the Wolves like Parayko did a couple years ago but it'll depend on timing, need, etc.

I still project him as a good two-way 2nd pairing caliber d-man. Not quite the offensive sense Dunn has but he's got good offensive instincts and is a very good skater (although Dunn is better there too) but he's gotten a lot more solid defensively/positionally. I've always seen him as a bit of a safer bet than Dunn but then again, I didn't expect Dunn to do quite as well as he has as a AHL rookie this season. I'll be very interested to see how Walman performs in the AHL next season.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

The extent of my computer skills consists of finding my way here and shooting radioactive green bears on Oregon Trail (the 80's game where wagons always break and Susie gets typhoid with stunning regularity). So I can't post a link but check out the recap of Jake Walman's season so far at Dobber Prospects. Written this month though I think before his recent 2g2a output. Highlights are that he was tied for 1st in pts among NCAA defensemen on a 10th place team and is averaging 3.6 shots per game.

I just saw a card game version of Oregon trail, complete with pixelized text, for sale at Target. Nearly picked it up. But didn't want to get typhoid fever.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I'm really stoked about our defense prospects. Walman, Dunn, and Schmaltz are criminally underrated nationally. I think they'll all surprise in a similar fashion to Parayko (although to a much lesser extent), where fans outside of STL have no clue who they are until they're top 4 dmen on a great team at a great price.

I think Dunn will be a potential #2 ceiling with a top 4 basement, Schamltz will be a solid #4 at worst and a high-end #3 at best, and Walman will be a great #4 at worst and a low-end #1 at best. I'm sure there are many of you that think this is too lofty, but I've felt this way for a while now about these three. I'm expecting them to all be far closer to their basement than their ceiling, but that's mostly because I'm a Blues' fan and have zero optimism.

 

[TK 421]

Thanks for the correction IA, so tied for 1st in dman scoring on his own team and 19th in NCAA scoring for dmen.

Yeah I posted about him because all the talk recently has centered on Schmaltz and Dunn. Walman is a great prospect worthy of recognition and someone who could make an impact next year just as easily as Schmaltz or Dunn. Nice situation for a Blues team looking to start transitioning some young guys into the LD position over the next couple of seasons.

 

[Frenzy31]

I prefered the "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego" game

or Odell Lake

...I never died from dysentery in them

Now boys, everyone knows the best games were on the Macintosh - you know Leisure suite Larry and the land of the Lounge Lizzards, Kings Quest and Police Quest.......


Back on topic, JK - there are some that watch him on a regular basis and feel that skill wise he is ready. To me, I think he needs to work on the D side of the game significantly. Speed wise and skill wise, he may be ready, but not 200 foot game.

As he isn't able to go the AHL, I could see a 9 game call up next year depending on camp and who has a better camp, TT or JK.

I have always been a fan of Walman and Schmaltz. I think Schmaltz has done very well in the AHL and is ready. I didn't really understand where JR is coming from when he said he was floundering in his development. I have no idea of how he would get ice time considering we have AP, CP, and KS.... Not being able to break that line up has little to do with him and more to do with how stacked we were. Yes, Dunn has suprassed him on the PP, but not in the Dzone. There is reason Schmaltz was getting 1 unit time. Watch the highlights, he is pretty damn solid.

Walman may finally be feeling it a bit since his return from injury. That shoulder surgery took a lit to return to form - especially considering he likely came back to early and then got re-injured and had to have surgery.

But then again, I didn't think Blias's game would translate so take that for what it is worth.

 

[Mike Liut]

I'm really stoked about our defense prospects. Walman, Dunn, and Schmaltz are criminally underrated nationally. I think they'll all surprise in a similar fashion to Parayko (although to a much lesser extent), where fans outside of STL have no clue who they are until they're top 4 dmen on a great team at a great price.

I think Dunn will be a potential #2 ceiling with a top 4 basement, Schamltz will be a solid #4 at worst and a high-end #3 at best, and Walman will be a great #4 at worst and a low-end #1 at best. I'm sure there are many of you that think this is too lofty, but I've felt this way for a while now about these three. I'm expecting them to all be far closer to their basement than their ceiling, but that's mostly because I'm a Blues' fan and have zero optimism.

I completely agree. But then again, im a friggen homer. But really, I do agree. I'm also excited about the group and Parayko is just scratching the surface.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think we have a really nice prospect pool. Granted, most of probably 2nd liners (TT, Sanford, Kyrou, Barbs) and the D's are probably 2nd pairings (Dunn, Schmaltz, Walman), but that's nothing to sneeze at considering Tarasenko, Fabbri, Schwartz, Parayko, Petro, Ed are all still young. And we have 2 first rounders this year. We aren't in bad shape at all going forward. Just need for a couple contracts to be moved or expired.

 

[Alklha]

I'm really stoked about our defense prospects. Walman, Dunn, and Schmaltz are criminally underrated nationally. I think they'll all surprise in a similar fashion to Parayko (although to a much lesser extent), where fans outside of STL have no clue who they are until they're top 4 dmen on a great team at a great price.

I think Dunn will be a potential #2 ceiling with a top 4 basement, Schamltz will be a solid #4 at worst and a high-end #3 at best, and Walman will be a great #4 at worst and a low-end #1 at best. I'm sure there are many of you that think this is too lofty, but I've felt this way for a while now about these three. I'm expecting them to all be far closer to their basement than their ceiling, but that's mostly because I'm a Blues' fan and have zero optimism.

Draft status is basically everything until a player gets to the NHL, unless he lights up the WJC or KHL.

Walman seems underrated by everyone. Our NHL defensive depth, Dunn and Schmaltz seems to have made most of our own fanbase oblivious to him. I haven't seen enough of him to be as high on him as you are, but he certainly deserves a lot more recognition that he gets.

Dunn
Walman
Mikkola

Not a bad potential left side for our AHL team next season.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Philly gets the hype, but I'd put our defensive prospects up against almost anyone else's. Obviously you have Dunn, Schmaltz, and Walman, but the upside that Mikkola offers is huge as well. If Mikkola develops like he could, him and Parayko on the same pairing is mouth-watering.

 

[Robb_K]

Any discussion about Kyrou at the NHL level is silly until we've at least seen him in an NHL training camp first. He doesn't look like a NHL'er to me in those videos. There's more to pro hockey than being a fast skater with good stick skills. I'd suspect he needs another 2-3 years of development before he's included in any Blues lineup.

I agree with this. Fabbri is a LOT stronger than Kyrou, and plays a much chippier game. He can hold his own in puck battles and position battles with players bigger than he is. Kyrou needs to add a lot of strength and a fair amount more bulk. He needs to learn to read plays and position better on defence. He'll need to play in The AHL for some period (at least a half season) just to get used to the speed and hard hitting of the pro game. I'd say that Kyrou is a lot farther away than Thompson and Sanford, and certainly much farther away than Barbashev, who has basically already proved he belongs in The NHL.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

M.U.L.E. is the best PC game. With Wing Commander as a close second. It is known.

I like several of the Blues prospects, but it feels like in general our prospect pool is further away from helping make this team closer to being a contender. The failure of Rattie and Jaskin has hurt this year's team a lot. Allowing Brouwer to walk, we were supposed to approximate that role with Jaskin's growth. I see too many offensive prospects that are just as likely to miss, or allow the team to tread water without actually getting better (just replacing the departing pieces at the same level).

Barbashev's stint has been very encouraging.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

M.U.L.E. is the best PC game. With Wing Commander as a close second. It is known.

I like several of the Blues prospects, but it feels like in general our prospect pool is further away from helping make this team closer to being a contender. The failure of Rattie and Jaskin has hurt this year's team a lot. Allowing Brouwer to walk, we were supposed to approximate that role with Jaskin's growth. I see too many offensive prospects that are just as likely to miss, or allow the team to tread water without actually getting better (just replacing the departing pieces at the same level).

Barbashev's stint has been very encouraging.

I'd say that MPS resurgence is going to be something i watch the rest of the year. If he can turn into a Mid 6 player that will help ease the Jaskin/Rattie pain.

 

[KirkOut]

I'd say that MPS resurgence is going to be something i watch the rest of the year. If he can turn into a Mid 6 player that will help ease the Jaskin/Rattie pain.

what? he's having a resurgence? his "resurgence" is that he's playing well enough to be a 4th liner instead of being an AHL player or Europe-bound. He's never going to be a middle 6 player, unless you consider "playing on the 3rd line because other people are injured and we don't have any other options but he's probably gonna score 10 total points or less the entire season" to qualify as a middle 6 player

 

[Oberyn]

what? he's having a resurgence? his "resurgence" is that he's playing well enough to be a 4th liner instead of being an AHL player or Europe-bound. He's never going to be a middle 6 player, unless you consider "playing on the 3rd line because other people are injured and we don't have any other options but he's probably gonna score 10 total points or less the entire season" to qualify as a middle 6 player

I still remember that main board thread where that one Blues fan said Paajarvi was "close to potentially breaking out offensively"

 

[BangarangxRufio]

what? he's having a resurgence? his "resurgence" is that he's playing well enough to be a 4th liner instead of being an AHL player or Europe-bound. He's never going to be a middle 6 player, unless you consider "playing on the 3rd line because other people are injured and we don't have any other options but he's probably gonna score 10 total points or less the entire season" to qualify as a middle 6 player

I was simply stating that he is definitely playing better than he has, and that he is up for good now so it'll be interesting to see if he can keep improving or if its back to old MPS. Sorry for trying to find positives to this dookie season.