Proposal: 2016-17 Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part XII

[ekarlsson65]

I'm not in the Eriksson for Ryan boat. But an interesting facet of trading Ryan for Eriksson is that if we do the swap on July 2nd (Eriksson's signing date is July 1st) Eriksson's cost to Ottawa next season would only be 1M as 7M of his 8M salary will be paid out on July 1st as a signing bonus. His real money AAV to Ottawa would be 4.1M over 5 years which is still overpaid if he is "done" but saves Ottawa over 3 million dollars a season.

Ryan has signing bonuses as well, but his signing date was in October or November, so I don't think he gets his signing bonus until that date. So Van would pay Ryan's as well in that scenario.

Ok, and that's nice and dandy and all, but VAN is going to want something good in return for paying all those fees.

Ryan, Logan Brown, and Lazar for Eriksson??

 

[BatherSeason]

Ridiculous.

So because he has struggled to produce offense while tasked with the difficult job of shutting down the best opposing offensive forwards, he is no longer a two way dman?

He had 10 goals and 26 points with barely any PP time last year, and was pretty much PPG in juniors (I know that accounts for a lot less when evaluating him).

He hasn't suddenly forgot how to produce offense. In fact, he does so every night. It's a mix between bad luck and difficult matchups that have brought down his production this year.

This isn't a "ridiculous" statement.

You said that Ceci was a "two way d-man", yet he has only 1 goal and 8 assists this season while averaging over 20 minutes a game, doesn't seem to "offensive" to me.

What I meant was that if another team can give him top PP minutes and believe that he can produce and we can get some value out of him, you do it. He will never be a top 2 guy here with EK here and even though he is getting "tough" minutes, he is struggling with those minutes.

If a top offensive player (Jonathan Drouin, Landeskog, Duchene, etc.)becomes available and the price is Cody Ceci, you pull the trigger. No questions asked.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This isn't a "ridiculous" statement.

You said that Ceci was a "two way d-man", yet he has only 1 goal and 8 assists this season while averaging over 20 minutes a game, doesn't seem to "offensive" to me.

What I meant was that if another team can give him top PP minutes and believe that he can produce and we can get some value out of him, you do it. He will never be a top 2 guy here with EK here and even though he is getting "tough" minutes, he is struggling with those minutes.

If a top offensive player (Jonathan Drouin, Landeskog, Duchene, etc.)becomes available and the price is Cody Ceci, you pull the trigger. No questions asked.

I think even pro cecis would do those deals straight up. They're scared of the add though. Which is understandable.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Ok, and that's nice and dandy and all, but VAN is going to want something good in return for paying all those fees.

Ryan, Logan Brown, and Lazar for Eriksson??

They are trading a player who epicly failed on their team and is signed for another 5 years for a player with a similar cap hit who has put up very consistent point totals on the Senators prior to this year. The benefit to Vancouver would be getting a fresh start with a player they like better.

Obviously, if they don't like Ryan better, they don't do the trade. It's as simple as that. Right now, Bobby Ryan is the better player than Eriksson.

The Sens have no reason to package a guy like Logan Brown, Colin White, Thomas Chabot with Ryan. As much as people on this section rag on Ryan, he's not David Clarkson. He's still on pace for 20 goals during this disaster of a year. When we're talking about blue chip first rounders, ditching the opportunity to have them for 3-6 years on their ELCs+post ELC RFA bridge deals combined isn't worth getting rid of Bobby Ryan. So packaging a major blue chip player like that to get that sort of trade done makes no sense. If the Sens are packaging Logan Brown with Bobby Ryan to get out of his hit, I'd imagine it'd be to Vegas not to Vancouver where they are taking back Eriksson.

Trading Bobby Ryan only makes sense if it accomplishes something. I see a lot of Bobby Ryan proposals here that put the Sens in either a lateral or a worse scenario. Ryan for Eriksson straight up without Vancouver paying his bonus is a worse situation for Ottawa than just keeping Ryan.

edit: You have to keep in mind, bonuses don't apply to the cap when paid by the other team. I have no idea why it works this way as it seems to work against the purpose of the salary cap. But if VAN were to trade Eriksson on July 2nd for Ryan, despite paying Eriksson 7M, they'd lose his entire cap hit to Ottawa in the trade. Same deal happened with Brassard. The Rangers traded him after his signing date to Ottawa, meaning the Rangers paid his signing bonus, but his cap hit stayed the same. I don't believe Eriksson is better than Ryan right now. Ottawa's incentive would be to shed an average of roughly 3.4M in real money over 5 years. Eriksson and Ryan's cap hits are very close, but as we know cap hits aren't entirely relevant to a budget team. VANs incentive is to hit the reset button and get Ryan who with a similar cap hit to Eriksson might give them more right now. Whether they as a cap team would be willing to pay an extra 7M in real money to make what (in this scenario) would be seen as an upgrade.....no idea. If they don't see Ryan as an upgrade, they don't make the trade in the first place.

 

[Six Assets]

Ryan, Logan Brown, and Lazar for Eriksson??

wtf.

 

[Micklebot]

This isn't a "ridiculous" statement.

You said that Ceci was a "two way d-man", yet he has only 1 goal and 8 assists this season while averaging over 20 minutes a game, doesn't seem to "offensive" to me.

So, it kind of depends on how you define 2-way dman. Clearly, he's not providing offense in his current role, but I think his current role is more that of a shutdown dman. When given a more mixed role over the last 2 seasons, he did produce offense.

For me, I don't think of a 2-way dman as somebody who produces offense while facing the toughest opposition and deployment, to me that's getting into elite dman territory, which nobody should expect Ceci to be.

I feel as though we are playing Ceci like Volchenkov and expecting him to produce like Mezaros, when as a player, his skill set lies in between the two.

I've said it before, but I really thought with Methot, Phaneuf and Karlsson, the burden would be far less on Ceci, but here we are. At this point, the question is whether or not facing adversity at this stage in his career will help or hurt him long term. Maybe putting him in the toughest situations now will help him become more confident when his deployment is dialed back a notch, or maybe it will break whatever confidence he has. time will tell I suppose. I will say that imo if people put guys like Michael Stone under the same microscope as they have done for ceci, nobody would want him here. It seems like when Ceci delays with the puck, people will call it hesitation, where as if somebody else does it, it's patience.

 

[GWNR]

Ryan, Logan Brown, and Lazar for Eriksson??

God this is bad.

 

[Bileur]

Ok, and that's nice and dandy and all, but VAN is going to want something good in return for paying all those fees.

Ryan, Logan Brown, and Lazar for Eriksson??

Brutal.

 

[edguy]

Ok, and that's nice and dandy and all, but VAN is going to want something good in return for paying all those fees.

Ryan, Logan Brown, and Lazar for Eriksson??

You have a brown to much there.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

In his defense I don't think he was suggesting we should do Lazar+Brown+Ryan for Eriksson. I think he was suggesting that my idea of VAN and OTT swapping Eriksson and Ryan was absurd because he thinks VAN would want a huge asset like Brown+Lazar in order to justify spending 7M in real cash on Eriksson's bonus.

I don't think he is exactly wrong that VAN might want something extra. But if they like Ryan, I don't think that extra will be Logan Brown because there's no way Ottawa would be stupid enough to give up Logan Brown unless it is a scenario where a team like Vegas is taking Ryan clean. If they don't like Ryan, there is no trade anyways.

Mainly, I just think Eriksson's bonus being such a huge part of his salary creates an interesting trade situation that works around the advantages and disadvantages of VAN being a cap team and OTT being a budget team. I'm not exactly advocating we make a Ryan for Eriksson swap after his bonus is paid, I am merely pointing what I think is a very interesting out of the box element of that possible trade proposal.

 

[SixthSens]

An HF partner posted his trade predictions on the Trade Board...

He has us trading Lazar, our 1st and 3rd for Jannik Hansen and Jake Virtanen.

I don't think I would be happy with that trade. If we trade our 1st, I would like someone younger than 30.

Ideally we just stay the course and not make a panic trade in light of recent events.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

An HF partner posted his trade predictions on the Trade Board...

He has us trading Lazar, our 1st and 3rd for Jannik Hansen and Jake Virtanen.

I don't think I would be happy with that trade. If we trade our 1st, I would like someone younger than 30.

I think it will take a late 1st early 2nd to get Hansen.

take out the 3rd and I think its fair.

 

[Knave]

Virtanen is only 20... is he any good or is he basically a winger version of Lazar?

 

[SAK11]

An HF partner posted his trade predictions on the Trade Board...

He has us trading Lazar, our 1st and 3rd for Jannik Hansen and Jake Virtanen.

I don't think I would be happy with that trade. If we trade our 1st, I would like someone younger than 30.

Imagine how exciting the draft would be for Ottawa without a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 7th. It's a weak draft but wow.

 

[Liver King]

who cares about picks this year honestly.

Brown/White/Chabot/Dahlen/Chlapik/Englund/Jaros/Paul/Perron

we got guys coming... our 1st & 3rd should be available for players that can help us now

 

[SAK11]

Virtanen is only 20... is he any good or is he basically a winger version of Lazar?

Already put in bust territory by a lot of people. Came to Vancouver camp out of shape, has poor hockey sense/intelligence, and plays stupid too often with the bad penalties and poor choices with the puck. Doesn't have much going on as a playmaker/ puck handler. But he skates well, has good size, can throw his body around and scored a lot in his draft year.

In the NHL he has 7 goals in 65 total games, 0 in 10 games this year. In the AHL he has 5 goals in 41 games.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I must be the only one starting to see real progress in Ceci. I'm not saying I wouldn't move him for a top 6 winger, but still...

 

[ekarlsson65]

God this is bad.

So what does VAN gain by adding Ryan's cap hit/salary for 5 more seasons and paying 6 million of Loui's salary in year 1?

I'll wait....

I also want to add OTT sent the Leafs their best prospect F at the time (Lindberg plus a 2nd) in order to have them take on the cap hits of Greening, Michalek, and Cowen while adding Phaneuf. So if you have a better proposal for what price VAN is willing to pay for all of Ryan's contract and Eriksson's year 1 bonus, would love to read it

 

[edguy]

I must be the only one starting to see real progress in Ceci. I'm not saying I wouldn't move him for a top 6 winger, but still...

You're not alone on this one.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

So what does VAN gain by adding Ryan's cap hit/salary for 5 more seasons and paying 6 million of Loui's salary in year 1?

I'll wait....

I also want to add OTT sent the Leafs their best prospect F at the time (Lindberg plus a 2nd) in order to have them take on the cap hits of Greening, Michalek, and Cowen while adding Phaneuf. So if you have a better proposal for what price VAN is willing to pay for all of Ryan's contract and Eriksson's year 1 bonus, would love to read it

Wait?? WUT?!??!

So just over 1 year ago Lindberg was our best forward prospect. Over White? Chlapik? Perron? Paul? Puempel? Gagne? Dzingel?

Ummm... No.

Lindberg was always just a throw in who might squeeze in 100-200 games on somebody's (LV anyone?) 4th line. That's it.

 

[Daffy]

So what does VAN gain by adding Ryan's cap hit/salary for 5 more seasons and paying 6 million of Loui's salary in year 1?

I'll wait....

I also want to add OTT sent the Leafs their best prospect F at the time (Lindberg plus a 2nd) in order to have them take on the cap hits of Greening, Michalek, and Cowen while adding Phaneuf. So if you have a better proposal for what price VAN is willing to pay for all of Ryan's contract and Eriksson's year 1 bonus, would love to read it

It was an awful proposal. Moving on...

 

[ekarlsson65]

It was an awful proposal. Moving on...

So you don't have a response? An idea for a proposal?

Moving on because you have nothing to add? Fair enough

 

[ekarlsson65]

Wait?? WUT?!??!

So just over 1 year ago Lindberg was our best forward prospect. Over White? Chlapik? Perron? Paul? Puempel? Gagne? Dzingel?

Ummm... No.

Lindberg was always just a throw in who might squeeze in 100-200 games on somebody's (LV anyone?) 4th line. That's it.

Maybe I stretched that out a bit, but was he not our most promising forward in Bingo last season with Dzingel??

Puempel isn't good, he's a bust 1st round pick who has a role as a bottom 6 player, Paul is not good either.

 

[Daffy]

So you don't have a response? An idea for a proposal?

Moving on because you have nothing to add? Fair enough

Moving on because it isn't even worth a counter. Yes let's just throw in our top draft pick last year for Loui freaking Eriksson lol

 

[Micklebot]

So what does VAN gain by adding Ryan's cap hit/salary for 5 more seasons and paying 6 million of Loui's salary in year 1?

I'll wait....

I also want to add OTT sent the Leafs their best prospect F at the time (Lindberg plus a 2nd) in order to have them take on the cap hits of Greening, Michalek, and Cowen while adding Phaneuf. So if you have a better proposal for what price VAN is willing to pay for all of Ryan's contract and Eriksson's year 1 bonus, would love to read it

Lindberg has never been Ottawa's best prospect at F... White for one was way ahead of him, you could argue between Chlapik, maybe Paul as well, heck, even Perron who was lighting it up. Lindberg was/is a b level prospect.


Anyways,

You're basically saying the difference between 6 mil + Eriksson for 5 years at 6 mil per cap hit and Ryan at 7.25 per is Brown and Lazar (for what it's worth, I suspect Ryan's bonus is actually payable at the start of the NHL FY in July not the anniversary of him signing, so it's in part a moot point anyways).

So lets say we value Ryan and Eriksson as players equally to keep it simple; we're then left with 6 mil, plus 1.25 x 5 = 12.25 dollars to balance. You're suggesting Brown + Lazar equals 12.25 mil (front loaded across 5 years). I'm not saying it's wrong, however, I'm not sure we could use that money (for example via free agency) to replace what those two players are reasonable expected to become.