Proposal: 2016-17 Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part X

[DrunkUncleDenis]

New thread!

Some last posts:

I said it before, and I'll say it again....Erik's NTC (10 team no trade list) kicks in this summer. The team needs to figure things out - and fast. We hit summer in no-mans land and Erik wants out, then it'll be another Spezza situation where Ottawa is handcuffed in any trade and get pennies on the dollar.

Management needs to figure things out, one way or another.

Jesus that's a lot for a 55-60 pts center. That's in essence 3 first round picks (don't kid yourself, Ceci could easily land a 1st round pick himself), + a decent defensive prospect and a 3rd.

Might as well just offer sheet one of Draisaitl or Johansen to get a top line center at that point. At least then you get the big center we want, and a younger guy that will have term (I'm assuming we'd offer more than the 2 years Duchene has remaining). My guess is both Edm and Nsh match what we offer, but the point is why go after someone that's good enough instead of after what we actually want/need.

Agreed. I think Duchene is seriously being overvalued if this is what people think he'll cost.

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[Tuna99]

I'm gonna say Ottawa puts Ryan on waivers by the end of January.

 

[TheNewEra]

I'm gonna say Ottawa puts Ryan on waivers by the end of January.

brilliant first post in the new thread

 

[SameeTheSniper]

Ryan is only playing like 14 minutes a game.

I think Doriom will get alot of calls soon on Ryan,50% retained

 

[SpezDispenser]

What can we get for Ryan realistically? What Phaneuf got? A B prospect and a bunch of rubbish?

We might be better off keeping him, but boy he looked like he didn't give a toss last night.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Ryan is only playing like 14 minutes a game.

I think Doriom will get alot of calls soon on Ryan,50% retained

So, 3.65 million to not have Ryan? The offers better be good.

 

[50 in 07]

I think you guys are undervaluing Ceci too much here.
How many 23 year olds can manage to play top-4 minutes in the league right now?
And he's been decent in his position, not bad as some of you so drastically make it out to be. Adam (freaking) Larsson was enough to grab Hall, who is a superior offensive player IMO then Duchene.

Hall-Larsson is not a good trade to use as a comparable for Ceci

It's widely agreed upon that Edmonton overpaid, not to mention Larsson is flat out better than Ceci. Expecting a similar return for Ceci is not realistic.

 

[Stylizer1]

What bad contract would you take back in a Ryan trade?

If you have to make a deal to get out from under that contract you most likely going eat some of the contract or take back bad value.

Ladd
Moulson
Stastny
Lucic
Nash

Not much to chose from. Of course it would most likely be something like the deal we made for Phaneuf but man, the whole keeps getting deeper.

 

[jason2020]

What can we get for Ryan realistically? What Phaneuf got? A B prospect and a bunch of rubbish?

We might be better off keeping him, but boy he looked like he didn't give a toss last night.

They would have to take a bad contract back so we would be no better off in terms of that.

 

[Aurilius]

Nash. But we'd have to add.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

When approaching Ryan trades, consider that all it takes is one GM to really value a player.

Look at what Nashville was offering for Spezza when he wouldn't waive his NTC (at least the 11th overall pick, murky details on whether Hornqvist was involved) compared to what we got for him (Chiasson+Paul+future 2nd). One GM was willing to pay significantly more than another for Spezza. It isn't like NSH said "Well DAL is only offer a 2nd so we'll offer a 2nd".

Don't mistake this as me saying Ryan's contract will be easy to move, but one thing to consider is that most GMs aren't looking 5 years down the line like most fans are on these boards. Aside from rebuilding teams, a majority of GMs tend to value improving their team now even if it has to come with a little bit of pain down the line because there is no guarantee that they'll even be employed by the team in 5 years. We've seen this with some of the UFA contracts given out. Combine this with an expansion draft coming up where more teams than every are going to have extra cap space via 70M being partially redistributed to the league via Vegas taking players, and I wouldn't see Ryan as an unmoveable player at this point. He isn't David Clarkson. He is much closer to a Dion Phaneuf type trade piece where there was interest in him from multiple teams if Toronto would retain some of his salary. Ottawa may have to retain slightly or take something back cap wise, but I think there might be a trade somewhere to be made with Ryan.

If there was a Ryan trade on the table with an unknown team as Benji said might have happened via his source (which he portrayed as questionable/grain of salt), with the Beauchemin rumour also coming up via the Ottawa Sun, maybe the two are related and the destination was Colorado. It would make sense that he wouldn't want to waive to go live that far away and play for what looks to be a hopeless floundering team. It also makes sense because Colorado has some contracts they would probably like to get rid of (Beauchemin or Soderberg) that would take off some of the burden of Ryan's 5 years remaining at 7.25M.

I don't know if I am seen as a "RYAN DEFENDER TM" on here because I wouldn't give Ryan away for nothing just to get out of his contract like some posters on here suggest, but if we could move him and come anywhere close to making our team equal to what it would have been with Ryan, or better in one way but worse in another, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If you have to make a deal to get out from under that contract you most likely going eat some of the contract or take back bad value.

Ladd
Moulson
Stastny
Lucic
Nash

Not much to chose from. Of course it would most likely be something like the deal we made for Phaneuf but man, the whole keeps getting deeper.

Stastny isn't really that bad of a contract considering he only has 1 year left after this one. I'd easily do a Stastny/Ryan swap purely because they are both still top 6 players, and Stastny's contract ends at the perfect time for us to give raises to a few other players.

Nash has a NTC and doesn't want to come to Canada.

Wouldn't take either of Ladd or Moulson for Ryan. With Ryan v Moulson, this is pretty much Ryan's first really bad year. As much as he was harped on in previous years, he was still one of our best forwards offensively. Moulson has been done for years. The only benefit of Moulson would be that it would clear some pretty significant money since he'd make 5M next year and then 3M. But at that point, why not expose Ryan and try to get Vegas to take him instead of paying a 3rd liner 8M over two years.

I don't see why EDM would move Lucic at this point.

Ladd's contract is much scarier than Ryan's contract.

My theory is that if Benji's source wasn't just pulling his leg or didn't get false information himself, and we were hearing Beuachemin rumours, maybe something like Ryan (1.25M) retained+Hammond (1.25M/1.5M next year) for Beauchemin (4.5M/4.5M next year)+Depth forward (Colborne? Grigorenko? Nieto?)+assets (a 2nd round pick or Pickard)

Hammond would negate Ottawa's retaining this year+next year, so that would work out to being Ottawa retaining 1M for the final 3 years of Ryan's contract which would be easy to digest. Beauchemin's contract ends in 2018 which is when Ottawa will need the cap/salary space to make things happen with Turris and Stone. He should also be able to contribute as a solid bottom pairing guy at least.

Pickard would probably be a bit optimistic as it seems like they might be going with him instead of Varlamov, but at the same time they'll have a tougher time getting value for Varlamov where as they are getting a top 6 forward in Ryan for him here. COL is really lacking at forward. They have loads of money coming off the books over the next few years with only a few raises coming up, but might not be the hottest free agent destination going forward with how they've floundered. So I could see how they might look at the Ryan situation here and think its a chance to buy low on a guy who they'd sign if he was a FA and wanted to come there. They really wouldn't be burdened by Ryan's contract @ 6M going forward if they expect him to play as a top 6 guy and are also dumping 2 years of Beauchemin off on Ottawa to help offset it.

 

[TheNewEra]

AJ Jakubec on TSN1200: "I know there's interest in Bobby Ryan around the league right now." #Sens

let the games begin

 

[jason2020]

What could we get for

Ryan
Lazar
Hammond

 

[BondraTime]

What could we get for

Ryan
Lazar
Hammond

About tree' fiddy

 

[BondraTime]

let the games begin

Genuinely blows my mind. If he were making 4.5 sure.

If the interest is "take 2.5 of his cap, and we'll give you P.A Parenteau and a 4th", maybe.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Here's my crazy idea for a Ryan trade:

To Vancouver:
Bobby Ryan
Mike Condon
Nick Paul

To Ottawa:
Jakob Markstrom
Luca Sbisa
Alex Burrows

I think Ryan would be great with the Sedins and would excel back out west.

Smith - Brassard - Stone
Hoffman - Turris - Dzingel
Burrows - Pageau - Lazar
Pyatt - Kelly - Neil

Methot - Karlsson
Phaneuf - Ceci
Sbisa - Borowiecki/Wideman

Markstrom
Hammond

Extras:
Anderson
MacArthur
Borowiecki/Wideman

 

[TheNewEra]

Genuinely blows my mind. If he were making 4.5 sure.

If the interest is "take 2.5 of his cap, and we'll give you P.A Parenteau and a 4th", maybe.

they are reporting interest and you have to figure that other teams know how the EUG is

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Genuinely blows my mind. If he were making 4.5 sure.

If the interest is "take 2.5 of his cap, and we'll give you P.A Parenteau and a 4th", maybe.

A Bobby Ryan trade would be very interesting because it will show how in or out of touch the average poster commenting on his trade value/probability of being able to be moved with his contract are. Myself included.

I'd be very surprised if Ottawa can move him without some sort of compromise. Whether the compromise is them taking back a less burdening contract to offset some of the cap, or whether it is them retaining a portion of his salary. I don't think we're talking about a huge amount of retaining, but something like 1.25M.

The way I interpret it is teams want to win. Most teams aside from the absolute worst know they'll lose something decent to Vegas. They also probably can figure out that this will upcoming off season will be a seller's market as a result of Vegas coming into the league, robbing a lot of teams of a decent or good player, and then having tens of millions of cap themselves to work with in the free agent market (not to mention the freed up cap on other teams via Vegas taking their guy). If you are a GM who is trying to make progress and a guy like Ryan who you think still has it in him to be a top 6 guy is available, and you aren't confident about the free agent market in the summer, I don't see why he wouldn't be appealing at 6M. When it comes down to it, I think teams would go after Ryan at 5 years 6M per this off season, and trading for him with a slight bit of salary retained would be the equivalent of doing that.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Here's my crazy idea for a Ryan trade:

To Vancouver:
Bobby Ryan
Mike Condon
Nick Paul

To Ottawa:
Jakob Markstrom
Luca Sbisa
Alex Burrows

I think Ryan would be great with the Sedins and would excel back out west.

Smith - Brassard - Stone
Hoffman - Turris - Dzingel
Burrows - Pageau - Lazar
Pyatt - Kelly - Neil

Methot - Karlsson
Phaneuf - Ceci
Sbisa - Borowiecki/Wideman

Markstrom
Hammond

Extras:
Anderson
MacArthur
Borowiecki/Wideman

I like the idea of Markstrom but Sbisa and Burrows are just terrible. Do not want.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

I like the idea of Markstrom but Sbisa and Burrows are just terrible. Do not want.

Burrows is a UFA after this year. He's been pretty good this year, actually. Sbisa is an overpaid #5 DMan, but we need to take on some salary if we're trading Ryan. Also, if/when we lose a D to Vegas, he would help with depth.

I agree, it's not an amazing trade, but it gives us 3 NHL players. I'd actually love to bring back Burrows on a cheap 4th line contract, but maybe that's just me Burrows - Lazar - Pyatt could be a good 4th line.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

To Philly:
Ryan
Boro
3rd

To Ottawa:
Read
Del Zotto
2nd

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

To Philly:
Ryan
Boro
3rd

To Ottawa:
Read
Del Zotto
2nd

Yes please!

Can't see Phily doing this, though, or even having interest in Ryan really. Maybe I'm wrong though!

 

[danielpalfredsson]

they are reporting interest and you have to figure that other teams know how the EUG is

My guess would be that interest means "if Ottawa retains we think we can buy low on a top 6 forward who we'd sign at 5 years x 6M if he were a free agent".

If by reading the tea leaves we can assume that Ryan is in fact being shopped around, I'd be very curious to know if Dorion is trading him to try and make the team better like he did with Zib for Brass, or if Ryan's play this season was the last straw and he is trading him with the motivation of getting out of the contract regardless of how little he can get for Ryan.

If winning in the short term is the priority, I don't think ditching Ryan "for nothing" to get out of his contract is the right move. But one thing that has to be noted is that Ryan wasn't a Dorion acquisition. Tim Murray was the assistant GM at the time. Dorion was in amateur scouting. Now, who knows if he had some sort of input with Murray, but we see this sort of thing all the time when new GMs take over. Teams can only have so many star players due to the salary cap (and budget), and Dorion may not want Ryan to be cemented as one of those guys long term, even if trading him now means we go without a replacement for a few years.

Ottawa doesn't necessarily need to clear cap space until 2018 when Turris and Stone among others will need new contracts. So unless someone internally comes in and steps up as a top 6 guy like Dzingel did previously, getting rid of Ryan now has the positive that we are much more likely to keep all of our current guys with raises, but the negative is there is that 1.5 season gap where we don't have a replacement for what Ryan should be bringing as we aren't a top tier FA destination.

edit: zib for brass might not be the best example as there were clear salary implications. But Dorion has claimed they weren't the primary issue for the trade and that Brass is better now. Hopefully "to make the team better" is straight forward enough even if you don't see eye to eye with the example.

 

[jason2020]

they are reporting interest and you have to figure that other teams know how the EUG is

Many teams have there own issues with there owners and know they would not be able to take 100% of Ryans contract.