Prospect Info: 2016-17 Flyers Prospects - Top 20 SKATERS, #1

Striiker

Earthquake Survivor
Jun 2, 2013
89,735
155,839
Pennsylvania
Looks like I'm in even smaller company this year. :laugh:

Provorov is great, but I went with Sanheim because he's got another level or two when the puck is on his stick. He gets to the high percentage areas of the ice with a lot more ease than any defenseman his age. It is incredibly hard to score in today's game and as we saw when Gostisbehere came up, guys who can create their own offense have immense value to a team. While Provorov is more advanced in other areas of the game, I have more confidence in Sanheim closing the gap in those areas than I do in Provorov learning to making plays like these:

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https://gfycat.com/SeparateShowyGaur
https://gfycat.com/AridWhisperedBrocketdeer
https://gfycat.com/ValidYawningIndianhare
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https://gfycat.com/LankyOccasionalIslandwhistler
https://gfycat.com/MilkyPowerfulBeagle
https://gfycat.com/FeminineWeeklyDikkops
https://gfycat.com/TightPerfectCassowary
https://gfycat.com/PaleFreeImperialeagle
https://gfycat.com/EvilEvilClownanemonefish
https://gfycat.com/MagnificentViciousAlbertosaurus
https://gfycat.com/FlusteredBrokenGroundbeetle

You can really see why he was barely used at the WJC, what kind of team would ever need that kind of offensive skill? You definitely don't want that kind of play on your powerplay, better to use him for d-zone faceoffs and just cycle in inferior players on the powerplay.

Also, Perlini sucks.

Also also, **** Lowry.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,167
86,565
Every junior player has to adjust their game when they jump to the pro level- even Provorov. I think that goes without saying. Should we discredit Mitch Marner's junior highlights and production since he won't be able to dangle through defenders at the rate he does in the OHL? Of course not. How about Gostisbehere? NHL defenders were still falling for that head fake game after game. Or how about the spin-o-rama? 'He won't be able to do that in the NHL!' Well he did. I also remember people saying McDavid would struggle because all he did was score around the crease in junior and he wouldn't be able to get there much in the NHL. He did. These are transferable skills.

My concern with Provorov is he gets checked one-on-one at the junior level. It's easy to say Sanheim, won't be able to do the things he did in the WHL in the NHL, but what about a player that can't get by defenders at the junior level? What's going to happen at the highest level of hockey? That's not to say he can't still be a great player, but I prefer a guy that can create his own offense. He doesn't have to rely on others to get him the puck in high percentage areas.

And I hope that doesn't come off as a slight to Provorov. I think he's great and I've said since the beginning of the year we have the 2 best defenseman in the CHL. I have no issue with people thinking he's the best prospect. He has an impressive resume and he's as safe as they come. We are lucky to have both guys.
 

whitstifier

Honor Black Excellence in Hockey
Mar 19, 2013
5,826
1,363
And I'm considering dropping Sanheim a couple spots this year, because there's an inkling of concern that I have that his skills won't translate, and/or he'll end up closer to his floor than his ceiling. I may put Konecny and Rubtsov over him.

What is Sanheim's floor? Justin Schultz?
 

Cootsfanclub

For Oskar!
Mar 29, 2013
7,795
4,473
Provorov, but I think Sanheim will end up being the better defenseman.

Prov
Sanheim
TK
Morin
Germ
Myers
Laberge
NAK
Lindblom
Allison

My top 10
 

BackWithaVengeance

Registered User
Jan 19, 2008
2,442
711
Germany
Every junior player has to adjust their game when they jump to the pro level- even Provorov. I think that goes without saying. Should we discredit Mitch Marner's junior highlights and production since he won't be able to dangle through defenders at the rate he does in the OHL? Of course not. How about Gostisbehere? NHL defenders were still falling for that head fake game after game. Or how about the spin-o-rama? 'He won't be able to do that in the NHL!' Well he did. I also remember people saying McDavid would struggle because all he did was score around the crease in junior and he wouldn't be able to get there much in the NHL. He did. These are transferable skills.

My concern with Provorov is he gets checked one-on-one at the junior level. It's easy to say Sanheim, won't be able to do the things he did in the WHL in the NHL, but what about a player that can't get by defenders at the junior level? What's going to happen at the highest level of hockey? That's not to say he can't still be a great player, but I prefer a guy that can create his own offense. He doesn't have to rely on others to get him the puck in high percentage areas.

And I hope that doesn't come off as a slight to Provorov. I think he's great and I've said since the beginning of the year we have the 2 best defenseman in the CHL. I have no issue with people thinking he's the best prospect. He has an impressive resume and he's as safe as they come. We are lucky to have both guys.

I love how we feel sorry for one prospect when we say something better for another one and are afraid to discredit the first one :laugh:

At the end, they are both Flyers property. Some exciting times in the future. Hextall and Co. did an amazing job refilling the prospect pool.
 

Random Forest

Registered User
May 12, 2010
14,452
994
Every junior player has to adjust their game when they jump to the pro level- even Provorov. I think that goes without saying. Should we discredit Mitch Marner's junior highlights and production since he won't be able to dangle through defenders at the rate he does in the OHL? Of course not. How about Gostisbehere? NHL defenders were still falling for that head fake game after game. Or how about the spin-o-rama? 'He won't be able to do that in the NHL!' Well he did. I also remember people saying McDavid would struggle because all he did was score around the crease in junior and he wouldn't be able to get there much in the NHL. He did. These are transferable skills.
Obviously every player has to adjust, but if you break down how and why Provorov and Sanheim are successful at the junior level, you reach drastically different reasons for both.

Again, my concern is with the fact that Sanheim's offensive success is largely derived from his ability to exploit poor gaps and slow decision making of junior opponents-- ie, things that are distinctly available at the junior level but not the pros. When a speedy 6'4 defender with hands like Sanheim's comes barreling down on a 17 year old WHL defender, Sanheim's going to make him look silly more often than not. Junior players don't know how to defend against a player with that skill set, and you can see it in those clips or any time you watch a Hitmen game.

Provorov's offensive success doesn't come from any particular exploitation of junior level weaknesses in his opponents. Yeah, he reads the game at an exceptional level, but so does Sanheim. Instead, Provorov's success comes from a relatively simple and efficient place. His assists come from savvy breakout passes and simple looks in the offensive zone. His goals come from quick shovel shots from the point. In other words, these are plays that are available frequently in the NHL.

Regarding Gostisbehere, I mean, the things he did in the NHL really aren't all that similar to those clips of Sanheim. The spin-o-rama isn't exactly a new invention... like I said, Sanheim's got a truly unique skill set. Gostisbehere is fantastic, but he isn't a player that the NHL hasn't seen before. Sanheim is a different beast entirely. I mean, to be honest, this is just as much an argument for Sanheim as it is against him. My point isn't that Sanheim is anything less than awesome... just that his skill set is truly unique, and no one can be sure how it will adapt. Whereas with players like Provorov and Gostisbehere, I think it was a lot easier to project.

Ultimately, our difference is that you have little doubt that Sanheim's skill set will translate. I'm just less certain. Totally respect where you're coming from-- you've obviously seen more of Sanheim than anyone.

My concern with Provorov is he gets checked one-on-one at the junior level. It's easy to say Sanheim, won't be able to do the things he did in the WHL in the NHL, but what about a player that can't get by defenders at the junior level? What's going to happen at the highest level of hockey? That's not to say he can't still be a great player, but I prefer a guy that can create his own offense. He doesn't have to rely on others to get him the puck in high percentage areas.

And I hope that doesn't come off as a slight to Provorov. I think he's great and I've said since the beginning of the year we have the 2 best defenseman in the CHL. I have no issue with people thinking he's the best prospect. He has an impressive resume and he's as safe as they come. We are lucky to have both guys.
But Provorov doesn't try to beat defenders or lug the puck from end to end or play keep away in the offensive zone. Like I said above, he makes simple, efficient plays and reads. I've said before, where Sanheim is an offensive "generator"... Provorov is more of an offensive "facilitator", so I definitely agree that Provorov's offense will be much more dependent on his teammates. Remember, I'm not arguing that Provorov will be better offensively-- only that his skills are easier to project. His ability to make those simple and efficient plays isn't going to go anywhere when he jumps from juniors to pros. Sanheim's ability to lug the puck, beat defenders, and play keep away is a little more questionable.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,781
105,367
I don't think it's crazy at all, or even necessarily a minority opinion, to say Sanheim has the highest ceiling in the organization.

Even though I do think Provorov offers the best combination of certainty and ceiling, my expectations are probably lower than most around here for him. I do hope that he's afforded the patience he's going to need making the likely huge bump in competition next year.
 

briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
1,051
174
My thing with Sanheim is that I just have no idea how to evaluate how those skills will translate. How many prospects have the type of skill set that allows them to routinely make plays like that? I mean, you don't even see Karlsson or Doughty make those kinds of plays too often. Maybe Burns... but it's why we've struggled to come up with a comparable player for him all these years.

He does a great job of capitalizing on what his opponents give him to work with. I've always wondered how his game will adjust when opponents in the NHL give him far less. There's no doubt he has the skill to do things that no other defender his age can do, but he won't be able to make those plays with the same regularity in the NHL, so he is going to need to adapt a bit. That's not to be negative at all either. His skill set is just so unique that it makes it so difficult to project at the NHL level.

I'm definitely not betting against a 6'4 defender who can make plays like that though. I have little doubt that he'll be a valuable NHLer. Just in the context of a comparison with Provorov, this is what leads me to definitively have Provorov ahead for now.

Starting the season in Lehigh Valley will do a lot to reveal the answers to these questions.

I voted Provorov but I think Sanheim has the higher ceiling. Doesn't really make a difference. Provorov and Sanheim are both amazing prospects - #1 and #2.

I hope we hold onto both of them and would not part with any of them even for a great young forward. With Ghost that gives an amazing core and we would still have Gudas, Morin, Myers, Friedman, Hagg, etc...
 

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,430
10,461
I like Sanheim. I have a ton of faith in him. But you just can't vote against Provorov at this point. He is too good.
 

Striiker

Earthquake Survivor
Jun 2, 2013
89,735
155,839
Pennsylvania
Isn't it nice to have two prospects who are so damn good we have trouble picking one over the other?

The thing I like best is how unique they all are. Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, Ghost, and Myers are all super unique in their skill sets and will hopefully compliment each other perfectly.
 

onlylordsvsmorebp

HEAVYHOCKEY ENTHUSIAST
Dec 27, 2011
6,244
6,717
VAN ISLE CANADA
Isn't it nice to have two prospects who are so damn good we have trouble picking one over the other?

The thing I like best is how unique they all are. Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, Ghost, and Myers are all super unique in their skill sets and will hopefully compliment each other perfectly.

"now i didnt say that prospect A wasnt going to be great, which he is....just think that prospect B might be even greater and/or his insane levels of greatness might be easier to project" :laugh:
 

Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,193
First off, I'm voting for Sanheim. As I have for 3 years now. :nod:

I think this kid has a really good chance at being a special NHL player. His skill-set is ridiculous. Sanheim has upside you just don't see.

Obviously, everyone drools all over Provorov. I get why. He's an NHL ready teenage defenseman with no apparent holes. He's going to be really, really good. He's safer and more projectable than Sanheim. But for me, Sanheim is the guy. I don't have the concerns or doubts others have. IMO, he is a late bloomer who just needs time, experience, and opportunity. If you give him that, he will figure it and put it all together. For me, Sanheim has a very real chance of being too special and too dynamic to pass on.

EDIT: Ha, I just voted and looked at the current results. Apparently only 3 other people voted for Sahheim. Last year he had a lot more support than this. I'm not sure what changed. :dunno:

Provorov, but I think Sanheim will end up being the better defenseman.

But isn't the poll, who is the better prospect? It isn't who is the better player today. If you really think Sanheim ends up the better player vote for him.

For example, I have Myers over Konecny. Konecny is probably the better player right now, but if I could only have one in our prospect pool between the two with all else equal, I take Myers. I thought that's the whole point of this.
 
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46zone

Pass me the soft pretzels
Feb 5, 2007
2,662
730
Philadelphia
Went Provorov, but you can make a case for Sanheim.

My top 10:

1. Provorov
2. Sanheim
3. Konecny
4. Morin
5. Rubtsov
6. Myers
7. Lindblom
8. Laberge
9. Aube-Kubel
10. Allison
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,619
16,426
My list:

1. Provorov
2. Konecny
3. Sanheim

What a top 3. I go Provorov #1 just because of his overall game and hockey sense. Konecny I'm a monster fan of; I think he's underrated. Sanheim's skating and talent are off the charts; I only rate him a hair below Provorov and Konecny because in addition to their high skill levels they have a tenaciousness and assertiveness to their games that Sanheim doesn't quite have.

4. Rubtsov
5. Laberge
6. Lindblom
7. Myers
8. Morin (not as high on him as others are, but certainly has the potential to jump)
9. Aube-Kubel
10. Hagg
 

Jray42

Registered User
May 10, 2009
9,194
5,547
Philadelphia
My spur of the moment, not set in stone top 10

Provorov
Sanheim
Konecny
Morin
Rubtsov
Myers
Laberge
Aube-Kubel
Lindblom
Allison

Ask me again tomorrow and my list will probably change
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,619
16,426
Seems like there's a lot of agreement on the tiers of 1-3 and 4-9, just with shuffling of order.
 

Hockeypete49

How you like me now!
Mar 22, 2009
6,914
417
South Jersey
Anyone who did not select Provorov #1 I have to wonder about you:laugh:. This young man not only is our best prospect he could very well be our future Captain when G hangs them up.(Years to come). The next poll I am voting for Konecny then Sanheim.
 

whitstifier

Honor Black Excellence in Hockey
Mar 19, 2013
5,826
1,363
And I'm considering dropping Sanheim a couple spots this year, because there's an inkling of concern that I have that his skills won't translate, and/or he'll end up closer to his floor than his ceiling. I may put Konecny and Rubtsov over him.

Anyone who did not select Provorov #1 I have to wonder about you:laugh:. This young man not only is our best prospect he could very well be our future Captain when G hangs them up.(Years to come). The next poll I am voting for Konecny then Sanheim.

It's not really anything to laugh at. Provorov was pretty polished for his draft class. He has the pedigree of a high draft pick. Sanheim was a "project" when he was picked, but he's only improved since then. Closer than you make it seem. There's logic to ranking Provorov higher now as he's more NHL ready, but in the longterm it's close
 

Cootsfanclub

For Oskar!
Mar 29, 2013
7,795
4,473
But isn't the poll, who is the better prospect? It isn't who is the better player today. If you really think Sanheim ends up the better player vote for him.

For example, I have Myers over Konecny. Konecny is probably the better player right now, but if I could only have one in our prospect pool between the two with all else equal, I take Myers. I thought that's the whole point of this.

I do think Provorov is a better prospect and the best in the system which is why I voted for him. Sanheim has the higher risk, I think he'll hit, but based on his risk I didn't vote for him.
 

Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,193
Anyone who did not select Provorov #1 I have to wonder about you:laugh:. This young man not only is our best prospect he could very well be our future Captain when G hangs them up.(Years to come). The next poll I am voting for Konecny then Sanheim.

Provorov didn't even get an 'A' in Brandon, and they have a 'C', and 3 'A's. So I'm not sure why he's our future captain. He actually seems like a very reserved, soft spoken guy.

Of our top prospects, Morin easily seems the most outgoing and personable. Allison might not be far behind.

Not a prospect, but Ghost seems like the most likely candidate as a future captain.
 

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,430
10,461
Does Sanheim really have a higher potential than Provorov? I think Provorov might have a slightly lower offensive ceiling but as a defensive player I don't think Sanheim has the potential to be a shutdown defender. While Provorov could easily be a shutdown defender and still put up 50 points. I can't imagine Sanheim being better than that.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,855
86,249
Nova Scotia
Does Sanheim really have a higher potential than Provorov? I think Provorov might have a slightly lower offensive ceiling but as a defensive player I don't think Sanheim has the potential to be a shutdown defender. While Provorov could easily be a shutdown defender and still put up 50 points. I can't imagine Sanheim being better than that.

No, but Sanheim could be a 60-70 point Dman....and Provy doesn't have the potential to be that IMO.

I am just happy we have them both! Then add in the offense of Ghost. And the size and meanness of Morin. Then Myers. And....

So happy we have hope on the way. And then next years draft we will start adding more D as all it pipelines are filled up. I expect a much more balanced draft next year.
 

Striiker

Earthquake Survivor
Jun 2, 2013
89,735
155,839
Pennsylvania
Provorov didn't even get an 'A' in Brandon, and they have a 'C', and 3 'A's. So I'm not sure why he's our future captain. He actually seems like a very reserved, soft spoken guy.

Of our top prospects, Morin easily seems the most outgoing and personable. Allison might not be far behind.

Not a prospect, but Ghost seems like the most likely candidate as a future captain.

I'd also toss Konecnys name in that ring.
 

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