WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part III)

[1Gold Standard]

Although talented, this team is dependent on 18's + a 17 year old, if memory serves, in Gauthier, in what has been, traditionally, a tourney dominated by 19 year olds...

Historically, such young teams haven't fared well in this tourney.

Like somebody said, TC could go off the rails rather quickly, considering the pool they're in, and considering they get the Yanks right off the hop.

your memory doesn't serve you well. Julien Gauthier? He's 18. The only 2 17 olds at camp were cut yesterday.

And while I don't subscribe to the theory that this tournament is the exclusive domain of 19 year old players, I wouldn't send a team of predominantly 18 year old players. It is a skill tournament and all things being equal, I'd take the better skilled 18 year old over the 19 year old player every time. If a U20 team has 5-7 18 year olds, that's about right imo. any more than that and I start to worry.

 

[Index]

McCann is better than Virtanen, not as physical or fast, but better.

Which is why I don't think he will go to Finland.

 

[nelsojc]

Although talented, this team is dependent on 18's + a 17 year old, if memory serves, in Gauthier, in what has been, traditionally, a tourney dominated by 19 year olds...

Historically, such young teams haven't fared well in this tourney.

Like somebody said, TC could go off the rails rather quickly, considering the pool they're in, and considering they get the Yanks right off the hop.

This team will be a mix of 18 and 19 years olds...nobody is 17 (Gauthier is 18). The back-end will be anchored by players who are mostly 19....they will be fine.

 

[Scotty B]

your memory doesn't serve you well. Julien Gauthier? He's 18. The only 2 17 olds at camp were cut yesterday.

And while I don't subscribe to the theory that this tournament is the exclusive domain of 19 year old players, I wouldn't send a team of predominantly 18 year old players. It is a skill tournament and all things being equal, I'd take the better skilled 18 year old over the 19 year old player every time. If a U20 team has 5-7 18 year olds, that's about right imo. any more than that and I start to worry.

Hmmm...Guessin that Gauthier turned 18 fairly recently...

As for the rest? I didn't say it was the exclusive domain of 19year olds, but it is widely referred to as a 19 year old tourney for a reason.

That said... we've had 17's play real well for TC in the past, and even the odd 16 year old ( from memory Spezza, Jay-Bo, Crosby, Lindros, Gretzky )

The projected superstars like JT and McD, as underagers, are no brainers. BUT I recall a less touted Evander Kane, for example, as a 17 year old in 2009 being a big part of a solid line + scoring a big goal* ( in the semis vs the Russians ). Ditto Crouse last year...

We can still win with a young lineup, it just tends to be a more dicey proposition. Again they may readily go off the rails...

Edit: Maybe my memory , once again is faulty, Kane might have set up the goal, big goal either way...

 

[JackSlater]

If McCann were to be loaned out for the WJC, he'd be playing Center somewhere in the top-9 for sure. But i think the bolded is why that's probably a moot point. He's an NHL calibre player, and the Canucks don't really have much else to fill his role at center for them with Sutter out for some time still.

Like Irfan said a while back, before the Virtanen decision was even officially made:



Seems extremely unlikely that they'd be officially announcing the Virtanen decision and not have a pretty strong inkling that they're keeping McCann. If he were getting sent to this, i'm sure they'd have just announced both items at the same time.


Excited to see Virtanen there in any case. His speed should be great for the big ice, and he'll bring some good size to an otherwise fairly smallish forward group. Should be fun.

Regardless of what a reporter claims, Benning is still clearly at least considering sending McCann. I highly doubt that he is sent given Vancouver's current lineup, but Benning has gone out of his way to not rule McCann out yet.

your memory doesn't serve you well. Julien Gauthier? He's 18. The only 2 17 olds at camp were cut yesterday.

And while I don't subscribe to the theory that this tournament is the exclusive domain of 19 year old players, I wouldn't send a team of predominantly 18 year old players. It is a skill tournament and all things being equal, I'd take the better skilled 18 year old over the 19 year old player every time. If a U20 team has 5-7 18 year olds, that's about right imo. any more than that and I start to worry.

The age of the players is pretty irrelevant. The 18 year olds are particularly strong this year, and that's a good thing. I don't think there's much evidence of young Canadian teams struggling any more than older but less talented teams. The 2009 team did well lead by 18 year old versions of Tavares, Hodgson and Eberle. Key contributions from 18 year old Myers, Pietrangelo and 17 year old Ellis too.

 

[janesy12]

Virtanen is a big help. This team will be fine, plenty of skill.
Excited to see what the Crouse Strome Marner line can do, if they stay together.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Hmmm...Guessin that Gauthier turned 18 fairly recently...

As for the rest? I didn't say it was the exclusive domain of 19year olds, but it is widely referred to as a 19 year old tourney for a reason.

That said... we've had 17's play real well for TC in the past, and even the odd 16 year old ( from memory Spezza, Jay-Bo, Crosby, Lindros, Gretzky )

The projected superstars like JT and McD, as underagers, are no brainers. BUT I recall a less touted Evander Kane, for example, as a 17 year old in 2009 being a big part of a solid line + scoring a big goal* ( in the semis vs the Russians ). Ditto Crouse last year...

We can still win with a young lineup, it just tends to be a more dicey proposition. Again they may readily go off the rails...

Edit: Maybe my memory , once again is faulty, Kane might have set up the goal, big goal either way...

That phrase gets overused by Hockey Canada and the TSN talking heads.

5-7 underagers (18 years old) is right where we should be. There will be years that are exceptions of course. (last year) 1995 birth year was/is/will be a strong group of elite level talent + depth.

 

[Scotty B]

Regardless of what a reporter claims, Benning is still clearly at least considering sending McCann. I highly doubt that he is sent given Vancouver's current lineup, but Benning has gone out of his way to not rule McCann out yet.



The age of the players is pretty irrelevant. The 18 year olds are particularly strong this year, and that's a good thing. I don't think there's much evidence of young Canadian teams struggling any more than older but less talented teams. The 2009 team did well lead by 18 year old versions of Tavares, Hodgson and Eberle. Key contributions from 18 year old Myers, Pietrangelo and 17 year old Ellis too.

If memory serves ...Petro didn't play on that 2009 team. PK did, and TC employed a kinda high risk umbrella style pp, which worked to the tune of 21 goals in 42 pp attempts, an unheard of 50 percent success rate! Ellis was usually all alone straddling the blue, with PK playing a kinda rover which suited him to a T!

PS: From memory, Esposito and the aforementioned Kane were also notables on that 2009 team. Espo scored a Big Goal vs Russian, plus did a lot to discombobulate Markstrom in the finals. I recall PK scoring our first goal in the GMG, pretty sure it came on the PP with PK in Markstrom's kitchen!

The next year Petro ( again with Ellis ) tried to emulate PK's role on the pp, BUT the more hesitant/less comfortable Petro was no PK and just couldn't pull that high risk rover thingy off ...In 2010, The Yanks ate our PP alive, scoring killer sh goals!

 

[Atomos2]

Getting Virtanen is a bonus. but he was number 3 on my tournament wish list, I'd prefer Fabbri or McCann. I'm sure with the tournament being in Finland and Virtanen's Finnish roots was a factor in his decision to suit up once again. Good for him. If the team plays up to its potential and we get solid goaltending, then we should see Canada play for the only medal that matters.

Still holding out hope for Fabbri until the NHL roster freeze on the 19th. St. Louis can't be much of a contender if their season rests on the shoulders of a 19 year old.

And not surprised that Dal Colle was cut (correct decision) and Chychrun (also correct decision).

It's so weird how things change. A year ago, Virtanen was picked right after Dal Colle, now a year later, Team Canada is begging to get Virtanen on the team while Dal Colle is one of their first cuts.

 

[Proust*]

It's so weird how things change. A year ago, Virtanen was picked right after Dal Colle, now a year later, Team Canada is begging to get Virtanen on the team while Dal Colle is one of their first cuts.

And both appear to have gone way higher than they should have in the draft.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

I prefer Barzal to McCann IMO as 3rd line center. Or they will put McCann on the left side. He's already done it before.

No. McCann is bascially the Canucks 3rd or 2nd line center on any given night in the NHL... Do you honestly think he'd move to wing in a junior tournament?

 

[Love]

The only solution for Dal Colle is to trade him to the Canucks for cheap so he can play with Cole Cassels again. I think he misses him.

 

[RedHot]

I thought Hicketts was bad last year.... Weak defensively and meh offensively.

 

[JackSlater]

If memory serves ...Petro didn't play on that 2009 team. PK did, and TC employed a kinda high risk umbrella style pp, which worked to the tune of 21 goals in 42 pp attempts, an unheard of 50 percent success rate! Ellis was usually all alone straddling the blue, with PK playing a kinda rover which suited him to a T!

PS: From memory, Esposito and the aforementioned Kane were also notables on that 2009 team. Espo scored a Big Goal vs Russian, plus did a lot to discombobulate Markstrom in the finals. I recall PK scoring our first goal in the GMG, pretty sure it came on the PP with PK in Markstrom's kitchen!

The next year Petro ( again with Ellis ) tried to emulate PK's role on the pp, BUT the more hesitant/less comfortable Petro was no PK and just couldn't pull that high risk rover thingy off ...In 2010, The Yanks ate our PP alive, scoring killer sh goals!

This is all over the place. Pietrangelo was on the 2009 team and was a very solid contributor. He was also by far the best defenceman in the 2010 tournament, and better than Subban was in 2009, so I don't know what your last point is. Kane was a bit player on the 2009 team, late addition and mostly played 13th forward.

I thought Hicketts was bad last year.... Weak defensively and meh offensively.

I agree, outside of his one great stretch pass. He's going to be a big part of this team though with his coach from junior coaching the team.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I thought Hicketts was bad last year.... Weak defensively and meh offensively.

I was not impressed with him, either. But since his junior coach is head coach of team canada, look for him to be used on heavy rotation.

 

[Breakers]

I thought Hicketts was bad last year.... Weak defensively and meh offensively.

He was definitely the weakest link defensively last year

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Perlini - Strome - Marner
Konecny - McCann - Virtanen
Crouse - Stephens - Point
Beauvillier - Barzal - Hawrlyuk/Gauthier

There are pieces that can be moved around a bit but I think the potential is there for three very good scoring lines and one great matchup line that can also produce (Crouse - Stephens - Point).

 

[xIsle]

Perlini - Strome - Marner
Konecny - McCann - Virtanen
Crouse - Stephens - Point
Beauvillier - Barzal - Hawrlyuk/Gauthier

There are pieces that can be moved around a bit but I think the potential is there for three very good scoring lines and one great matchup line that can also produce (Crouse - Stephens - Point).

I don't like your line up. Point on the 3rd line? Beauvillier and Barzal on the 4th??

 

[Scotty B]

Jake Slater:

This is all over the place. Pietrangelo was on the 2009 team and was a very solid contributor. He was also by far the best defenceman in the 2010 tournament, and better than Subban was in 2009, so I don't know what your last point is. Kane was a bit player on the 2009 team, late addition and mostly played 13th forward.

I was speaking strictly from memory, BUT I finally relented and checked the roster and ur right Petro was on that team. But if ur saying he was more effective in 2010, than PK was in 2009, I would argue that he certainly wasn't , leastways not on the pp.

PK and Ellis ( my most salient pt ) were very effective together on the pp in 2009. Indeed that pp was probably the greatest, in terms of scoring efficiency, in the history of this tourney! Ellis and Petro ( who took over PK's role as rover, in 2010 not so much ), again our 2010 pp not only didn't score at anywhere near the same clip...They got torched REPEATEDLY by the Yanks to the tune of SH goals. If u call that being more effective...I certainly DON'T!

As for the rest? Kane was only 17 in 2009, yet he came up big in the semis vs Russia, either scoring or else setting up a goal ( can't recall which ) and again this was reminiscent of what 17 year old Crouse accomplished last year with Ritchie and F. Gauthier ( he might have accomplished more, BUT Gauthier couldn't score on a soccer net! )...Let's recall too that both Kane 2009 + Crouse 2015 were longshots to make the team, initially

 

[1Gold Standard]

This is all over the place. Pietrangelo was on the 2009 team and was a very solid contributor. He was also by far the best defenceman in the 2010 tournament, and better than Subban was in 2009, so I don't know what your last point is. Kane was a bit player on the 2009 team, late addition and mostly played 13th forward.



I agree, outside of his one great stretch pass. He's going to be a big part of this team though with his coach from junior coaching the team.

Kane was originally cut from that team. brought back to replace an injured player. Dana Tyrell iirc.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

How in the World is an 18 year old an underager? These threads get funnier by the year.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

No. McCann is bascially the Canucks 3rd or 2nd line center on any given night in the NHL... Do you honestly think he'd move to wing in a junior tournament?

Is he McDavid? He's just a regular player, there's nothing exceptional of him. He does what the team needs, and if Barzal is superior or whoever he moves to wing. And to be the 2nd or third line centre of the canucks is nothing special, let's be honest here, other players on this team would have more success then him in that spot.

 

[Halfy]

McDavid has thrown everybody off. He fundamentally changed the way we look at junior hockey players. Just because we don't have a player on the team who has 2.6 PPG doesn NOT mean we have a bad team. For example, some people here are saying we really don't have any stud players on our team this year. That is ridiculous. Dylan Strome was a third overall pick (who is a good comparison to Reinhart) and Mitch Marner is ripping up the OHL Patrick Kane style. That doesn't even mention Point, Barzal, Konecny, Beauvillier, Virtanen etc.

 

[xIsle]

Maybe my memory serves me wrong, but what I remember from 2010 is that Hamonic-Scandella was the 1st pairing for team Canada. Both were doing really well until Hamonic got hurt in the semi-final against Switzerland. And that hurts Canada a lot for the final against U.S.A.

I think Pietrangelo was their most talented D and had a good tourny but I don't remember him having that "great" of a tourny.

 

[1Gold Standard]

How in the World is an 18 year old an underager? These threads get funnier by the year.

by virtue of the fact that an 18 year old has another year of eligibility remaining before he ages out, therefore by definition, underage. It's that simple.