Prospect Info: 2015 Young Stars tourney

[TheRebuild]

I guess I will give my 2 cents on this matter as well.

I fully agree that there is no point in McDavid playing. He is well above this level. Nothing to be gained from him playing.

The issue is how the Oilers handled this. Do they benefit from people paying to watch this tournament? I know they aren't hosting it, but I am sure it is in their benefit for the tournament to make money. If 0 fans paid to see the games, would they be alright with that?

If they were going to only play him in 1 game, they should have said so. IMO, they left it all up in the air on purpose so that people would go and watch.

And Draisaitl has already played in 37 NHL games, AND is a year older than McDavid, yet apparently he's not above this level.

 

[McspOiler]

If Mcdavid doesn't play on Wednesday then he obviously got injured from the Vrtanen hit. I'm more on the side that they want Mcdavid to be ready to go for his hometown fans.

He will play no one will touch him. The golden bear game is a fund raiser for the university if anyone thinks the oil won't have a mandate sent to the golden bears saying don't touch Connor I don't know what to tell you...

 

[McDeepika]

I don't know how many of you follow basketball but there was a big uproar a few years back when the Spurs sat out their best players in a marquee regular season game in the middle of the season just to rest them.

How would you fans feel if the Oilers start sitting McDavid out of regular season games in the future? Let's say in a few years time, the Oilers are in 1st place in February and are playing their 5th game in 7 nights. I could easily argue that it makes more sense to rest McDavid since playoffs is what we really need him for. Would those of you who paid to be at that game be okay with that decision because it is for the greater cause?

 

[Digger12]

And Draisaitl has already played in 37 NHL games, AND is a year older than McDavid, yet apparently he's not above this level.

I guess it depends on how you define "well above this level"

If you go by what they've done on the ice, hard to say since McDavid's only played that one game, and with it being an 8-2 laugher it sounds like he got shut down just over halfway through the 3rd period. Not enough body of work to say.

If you go by the cold fact that one of these guys is a 100% certainty to be making the flight to St. Louis for game 1 (barring injury) and the other guy does not have a similar guarantee, then yes...he is "well above this level" in that respect.

 

[Fourier]

Taylor Hall was always going to be on the Oilers his rookie season. No evaluation at the prospects tourney was necessary. Yet he played anyway. McDavid was scheduled to play two games. What changed?

He got flattened early in game one.

Bus charters complete with hotel packages were sold with the tag line "See McDavid Live" as the selling point.

The decision to sit out the Winnipeg game is completely reactionary. The funny thing is the NHL team is largely a bag of marshmallows. Very little protection will be found there.

McDavid is game. He wants to play. That isn't the issue. Management doesn't want him to, which would be fine, if they left him in Edmonton. This tourney is actually a big deal in the Okanagan. Penticton does a fantastic job with this event. Most people booking hotels and buying tickets were doing so with the expectation of seeing McDavid.

Pulling him out of the games because he took a hard hit with his head down is pretty ridiculous. No matter how it is trying to be sold, that is what it is. Frankly the fans deserve better treatment than that.

I can't really disagree with most of what you wrote since I do not know one way or another how many games they wanted him to play. I suspect that 2 was the plan but they changed it to 1 for perhaps a variety of reasons. You think it is reactionary. Others see it as prudent. Truth is there are probably parts of both at play.

I also have no qualms about people who went to see McDavid feeling short changed. I'd probably feel that way as well. But I don't think that the Oilers really owed anything to anyone who bought a ticket or went to see him. This is not their tournament, they are a participant but do not as far as I know participate in the marketing of the games. And if there was no McDavid, Drasiatl may well have been the biggest draw at the tournament. The Oilers actually asked for special permission to have him play. So it's not like they left out everyone of their best.

In contrast they are marketing the game against the Bears and that game contributes to both their own charitable foundation as well as the U of A hockey program. I fully understand why the Bears game would take priority. Of course he could play both, but it seems they would rather not have him do so. I don't think it is either a surprising or an unreasonable decision. But admittedly this is an easy position for me to take since I did not fork out money to see him play.

 

[s7ark]

And Draisaitl has already played in 37 NHL games, AND is a year older than McDavid, yet apparently he's not above this level.

Drai is sitting out today because he has nothing to prove in this tournament. He chipped off some rust and got his legs going. Now he's ready for the Golden bears, TC and Joey Moss Cup.

The Oilers are using this tournament for what it is. A pre, pre warmup for the regular season. This camp gets the kids ready for TC, which gets them ready for the preseason games, which gets them ready for the season.

 

[Psychoil]

I don't know how many of you follow basketball but there was a big uproar a few years back when the Spurs sat out their best players in a marquee regular season game in the middle of the season just to rest them.

How would you fans feel if the Oilers start sitting McDavid out of regular season games in the future? Let's say in a few years time, the Oilers are in 1st place in February and are playing their 5th game in 7 nights. I could easily argue that it makes more sense to rest McDavid since playoffs is what we really need him for. Would those of you who paid to be at that game be okay with that decision because it is for the greater cause?

How about you try and sell that to mcdavid and if he buys it then I'll agree to it.

Nobody ever in the history of the nhe has done that except for the very end of the season

 

[Fourier]

I understand what people are saying I don't want Connor hurt either. However he should play increasing levels of competition. Are they now not gonna play him in many ore season games as well? They mean nothing also. Once u start babying players they won't build up the intensity as the games get harder. This tourney is child's play compared to the speed and intensity of the nhl. And before people say head hunting jerks making a name for them self give an example of that happening where a star player got head **** or cheap shot. Connor took a clean hit if he can't handle that then he should be going back to juniors.

This is a complete over reaction. As is your comment about not having him take warm-ups.

There is a huge difference between this tournament and the preseason, and a huge difference between the preseason and the regular season. Moreover, there will be plenty of people who bought tickets to see him play in the preseason who will be disappointed when he does not play, because like every player he will sit out some games.

You are also ignoring the fact that the spot he is not taking up goes to some other young guy who may not get many other chances to make an impression.

 

[McDeepika]

How about you try and sell that to mcdavid and if he buys it then I'll agree to it.

Nobody ever in the history of the nhe has done that except for the very end of the season

Because teams make a lot of money from regular season games, that is why. If it was all about winning, teams that were locks to make the playoffs would not be playing their stars all 82 games.

 

[Beerfish]

Winquist(sp??) tried to fight the guy the moment after, watch the highlights. McDavid happens to block them by moving between them and stops anything more from happening.

Yeah winquist, I thought he was playing with moroz and chase. Trying to fight by skating over and shoving is not the same as dripping the gloves right away and throwing them. Same lame excuses we as a team always give. The moment McDavid get decked the other 4 players on the ice should have been after the offender.

 

[Digger12]

How would you fans feel if the Oilers start sitting McDavid out of regular season games in the future? Let's say in a few years time, the Oilers are in 1st place in February and are playing their 5th game in 7 nights. I could easily argue that it makes more sense to rest McDavid since playoffs is what we really need him for. Would those of you who paid to be at that game be okay with that decision because it is for the greater cause?

Just my opinion, but I have a hard time seeing something like this as something that would be likely to happen because playoff races in the NHL tend to be tighter than in other leagues due to that single point being awarded for overtime/shootout losses.

If you go back a few years and look at how the standings were as of Feb 1, the difference between 1st and 8th in a Conference hovers somewhere around 8 to 13 points for the most part. Further, for teams that are near the top in a Conference it's not just about making the playoffs, it's about fighting for home ice advantage where it's usually a very tight thing between those top 4 teams in a Conference.

At that time of year, it's in a team's best interest to put your best lineup on the ice every night. You simply can't take for granted that you're going to be in the playoffs with room to spare, the margin for error is too slim for that kind of chicanery.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Yeah winquist, I thought he was playing with moroz and chase. Trying to fight by skating over and shoving is not the same as dripping the gloves right away and throwing them. Same lame excuses we as a team always give. The moment McDavid get decked the other 4 players on the ice should have been after the offender.

Yep cause that's a great thing to do. See a guy get hit and go start punching the guy in the face. That never happens in this league.

Virtanen refuses to drop the gloves at any point. He hid behind the ref and turtled. Forcing an unwilling guy to fight is a great way to get suspended and get a very bad rap in the league.

It was a clean hit and McDavid stopped any retaliation in the moment himself. Should Winquist of shoved McDsvid over and drop kicked Virtanen?

From that moment on he had a target on his back. If you wanted more go watch beer league cause that **** doesn't happen.

 

[Oilfan2]

Yeah winquist, I thought he was playing with moroz and chase. Trying to fight by skating over and shoving is not the same as dripping the gloves right away and throwing them. Same lame excuses we as a team always give. The moment McDavid get decked the other 4 players on the ice should have been after the offender.

Don't be silly. One has nothing to do with the other.

This is a tournament with a bunch of kids that most don't even know the other players and they're all vying to be the best they can be and show the hockey world they belong. Pretty much to each his own, in this case.

If this happens during 'real' hockey and his teammates ignore it, then sure, rail on them but for now you may as well be criticizing the cameraman for not giving us better views..for all the difference it makes.

 

[Konami McDavid]

Guys stop with the "he got pulled because he got hit" narrative on McDavid's early exit from the tournament. The hit wasn't even that hard. It was a good, solid, shoulder to chest hit that McDavid saw coming. Yah, his head was down at contact, but just before he looked at the puck his head was up and he saw Vertanen. I doubt he expected it to be as hard as it was but stop acting like the kid is glass. Honestly, the announcers made it sound much worse than it actually was.

I remember it being discussed on TSN1260 and other sources that McDavid was never going to play Saturday. It was never discussed whether or not he was expected to play Monday. None of us can say whether this decision was made prior to the tournament starting or after the first game.

Regarding the discussion about Hall playing all the games in the prospect tourney, lets remember that we did not have a full time AHL affiliate back then. This is important because the club has some tough decisions to make now that go beyond the Oilers roster. Decisions that they didn't have back then. There are a plethora of center prospects in our system and we need to choose who goes to Bakersfield and who goes back to junior, who moves to the wing, and who is. Playing McDavid does not make that decision any more transparent.

On a side note I am glad that he wont be playing Winnipeg. That team has too many big prospects who would love to make a name for themselves by taking out "The Next One", and they have a bottom 6 to fill out.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Winnipeg czme in with the best prospect group in the league apparently and have been embarrassed so far. This is their teams last chance to show anything. I'm excited to watch us spank then without McDavid and Drai

 

[nabob]

Yeah winquist, I thought he was playing with moroz and chase. Trying to fight by skating over and shoving is not the same as dripping the gloves right away and throwing them. Same lame excuses we as a team always give. The moment McDavid get decked the other 4 players on the ice should have been after the offender.

It was a perfectly clean, non malicious hit by the other teams most skilled player. Moroz hammered Virtanen the next shift, Nurse kocked him flat as well. Later in the game Moroz body slammed him to the ice a fed him a few shots.

If it was a dirty hit, or intent to injure in anyway then yeah, all 4 guys should have jumped him, but it wasnt, it was a very average hit on a play where McDavid knew he was going to be hit.

 

[Spawn]

Don't be silly. One has nothing to do with the other.

This is a tournament with a bunch of kids that most don't even know the other players and they're all vying to be the best they can be and show the hockey world they belong. Pretty much to each his own, in this case.

If this happens during 'real' hockey and his teammates ignore it, then sure, rail on them but for now you may as well be criticizing the cameraman for not giving us better views..for all the difference it makes.

Honestly I take issue even with the bolded. What happened? Virtanen threw a hit. It wasn't even a particularly big hit, nor was it malicious. McDavid got knocked over and immediately popped up and was 100% fine.

Hitting is a fundamental part of hockey. If you're a hockey player you expect to get hit. We gotta have guys throwing down every time McDavid gets popped one? It's absurd. And even if you do believe in that absurdity, outside of Bertuzzi-ing a guy, there wasn't much else the Oilers could do. Moroz went at Virtanen all night and so did Nurse, but Virtanen wouldn't fight so it ends there. There was not a single thing wrong with the response from any teammate on the ice at any point in the night. It's absurd that there are people in here using it as some sort of indictment against the organization.

 

[Soli]

Won't be able to throw a GDT together, someone else will have to.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Winnipeg czme in with the best prospect group in the league apparently and have been embarrassed so far. This is their teams last chance to show anything. I'm excited to watch us spank then without McDavid and Drai

Nurse is out too.

Rankin-Platzer-Sanford
Christoffer-Linaker-Bukarts
Slepy-Loiseau-Winquist
Roy-Soy-Chase

Waltz-Bear
Jones-Davis
Betker-Leveille

Laurikainen in net.

As per Wilkins.

Of those 19 players, only 6 are actually Oiler prospects. The rest are invites or on AHL deals.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Nurse is out too.

Rankin-Platzer-Sanford
Christoffer-Linaker-Bukarts
Slepy-Loiseau-Winquist
Roy-Soy-Chase

Waltz-Bear
Jones-Davis
Betker-Leveille

Laurikainen in net.

As per Wilkins.

Of those 19 players, only 6 are actually Oiler prospects. The rest are invites or on AHL deals.

I still see us winning this...kind of sad really. Hope a lot of the invites get some kind of deal. They look great. Glad Christoffer is on an ahl deal. He could turn out big for us.

 

[Digger12]

Nurse is out too.

Rankin-Platzer-Sanford
Christoffer-Linaker-Bukarts
Slepy-Loiseau-Winquist
Roy-Soy-Chase

Waltz-Bear
Jones-Davis
Betker-Leveille

Laurikainen in net.

As per Wilkins.

Of those 19 players, only 6 are actually Oiler prospects. The rest are invites or on AHL deals.

This is the equivalent of scrounging inside your couch cushions for pizza money.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

This is the equivalent of scrounging inside your couch cushions for pizza money.

I guess it's 7 including Laurikainen, but we didn't draft him.

 

[nabob]

Gazdic can announce such things all he wants, it won't stop anyone from taking shots at McDavid. The Oilers had bottom of the roster 5 minute a night enforcers throughout the rebuild, including guys like McIntyre who scared other players s***less. All it did was show that expecting obsolete enforcers, bottom pairing defensemen, and 4th liners to cover for the rest of the team is a strategy destined for failure in the modern NHL.

It's not just a matter of just bringing new people in either. This team has a terrible culture left over from the veteran core that collapse in the final years of Mactavish's tenure as coach. All those toxic attitudes and behaviors that sank those teams to the worst in the league, were passed onto a new generation of young players in the franchise by the veteran leaders that Tambo foolishly kept around. Players from rosters and locker rooms so rancid, that the people running the franchise thought the only way to dig themselves out of the mess was to tear everything down and do a scorched earth rebuild.

It's arguably going to be Mclellan's biggest task when he takes over, and it isn't something that is going to be changed by adding Gryba and Gazdic to the roster on a nightly basis. They need to get rid of the special status bull**** about everyone on the team not drafted in the top 5 existing to protect the precious and fragile wunderkids, and start pushing every player to understand that they have an obligation to stand up for each other instead of waiting for someone else to do it for them

I guess you're ignoring that the culture of the team has changed. They cleaned house this summer. Included with that house cleaning was an instilling of personal accountablility from the top of the organization down to guys on a PTO. The worst way to get positive change is to keep on talking about what didnt work in the past instead of what needs to be done now. You seem to be focusing on the past.

 

[McShogun99]

Nurse is out too.

Rankin-Platzer-Sanford
Christoffer-Linaker-Bukarts
Slepy-Loiseau-Winquist
Roy-Soy-Chase

Waltz-Bear
Jones-Davis
Betker-Leveille

Laurikainen in net.

As per Wilkins.

Of those 19 players, only 6 are actually Oiler prospects. The rest are invites or on AHL deals.

It would be so awesome if this lineup beats the Jets.

 

[McBooya42]

Yep cause that's a great thing to do. See a guy get hit and go start punching the guy in the face. That never happens in this league.

Virtanen refuses to drop the gloves at any point. He hid behind the ref and turtled. Forcing an unwilling guy to fight is a great way to get suspended and get a very bad rap in the league.

It was a clean hit and McDavid stopped any retaliation in the moment himself. Should Winquist of shoved McDsvid over and drop kicked Virtanen?

From that moment on he had a target on his back. If you wanted more go watch beer league cause that **** doesn't happen.

Excellent post, and bang on. +1