Proposal: 2015 Offseason Trade Rumours & Proposals | Part V |Brace Yourselves, Draft is Coming

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't buy the notion that one of our players is going to get offersheet'd

Especially since it stems from Hockeybuzz

 

[HSF]

Man i love BM ,says he wants a top6 forward a high draft and a prospect for one of his goalies.Doesnt say which one though.Then tweets that the return may be a bit less than what he hoped for.

Where did Murray say he wants a top 6 forward and a pick for a goalie straight up?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Where did Murray say he wants a top 6 forward and a pick for a goalie straight up?

He never said anything like that as far as I know. The reported asking price was a potential top 6 forward and a pick in the top 2 rounds (likely a 2nd).

For whatever reason Garrioch dropped the 'potential' part in one of his articles and reported that Murray was looking for a top 6 forward and a pick in exchange for one of the goalies, and people went nuts.

 

[Busboy]

Where did Murray say he wants a top 6 forward and a pick for a goalie straight up?

On NHL.com Murray says he expects to lose the trade and that he'll likely get less than what he hoped for.

He also says he feels like whether he trades Lehner or Anderson people will still look back in a few years and say his move was dumb.

I think we're going to get a 2nd and a 4th from BUF for Lehner.

That could set up a deal:

18th OVA + Ott 2nd + Dal 2nd + 2nd (BUF deal)

For

3rd OVA from Phoenix

 

[Benjamin]

On NHL.com Murray says he expects to lose the trade and that he'll likely get less than what he hoped for.

He also says he feels like whether he trades Lehner or Anderson people will still look back in a few years and say his move was dumb.

I think we're going to get a 2nd and a 4th from BUF for Lehner.

That could set up a deal:

18th OVA + Ott 2nd + Dal 2nd + 2nd (BUF deal)

For

3rd OVA from Phoenix

3rd overall will cost pieces you don't want to trade. Like Zibanejad or Ceci.

 

[Hale The Villain]

As long as we can get a 2nd round pick + a player/prospect (doesn't have to be a particularly good one) for Lehner and Greening, I'll be happy.

If Murray ships out Lehner for anything less just to get rid of Greening's contract, then he will have failed as a general manager.

 

[agent2421]

I'm expecting a bad trade from Murray. I don't even understand what the point is for releasing a statement saying he's expecting to lose it ... great way to up the value. Atleast go into the draft with an open mind and see what's out there.

Why is the market for goalies so poor?

 

[Iamok]

Every year you lot wish for the moon only to be severely underwhelmed. You think you'd have learned by now...

I'm expecting a bad trade from Murray. I don't even understand what the point is for releasing a statement saying he's expecting to lose it ... great way to up the value. Atleast go into the draft with an open mind and see what's out there.

Why is the market for goalies so poor?

Because there are plenty of goal-tenders available, and not as many teams in need of one. Supply, demand and what-not.

 

[BonkTastic]

If Murray ships out Lehner for anything less just to get rid of Greening's contract, then he will have failed as a general manager.

So you will blame a flooded goalie market on Murray? And the fact that historically, goalies almost never ever EVER fetch anything even close to full value?

That doesn't sound fair at all. I mean, Murray doesn't have a flawless trade record or anything, but there is a lot of context involved in making this kind of trade.

 

[BonkTastic]

Because there are plenty of goal-tenders available, and not as many teams in need of one. Supply, demand and what-not.

Yep.

The only time you ever see goalies go for anything close to full value is when a specific team is desperate, and the market us unusualy thin with available goaltenders. .. but teams are rarely desperate for goalies because there is usually a flooded market of them. It's almost always a buyer's market.

 

[The Jangle Meister*]

were not getting 3rd overall lol

BM just needs to get a quality piece back in the goalie trade, hopefully one that can play next season.

 

[Benjamin]

So you will blame a flooded goalie market on Murray? And the fact that historically, goalies almost never ever EVER fetch anything even close to full value?

That doesn't sound fair at all. I mean, Murray doesn't have a flawless trade record or anything, but there is a lot of context involved in making this kind of trade.

Murray put himself in a bad market.

 

[Micklebot]

So you will blame a flooded goalie market on Murray? And the fact that historically, goalies almost never ever EVER fetch anything even close to full value?

That doesn't sound fair at all. I mean, Murray doesn't have a flawless trade record or anything, but there is a lot of context involved in making this kind of trade.

To be fair, he put himself in the position. We signed O'Connor and Hammond knowing full well that we'd have to move a goalie, and that there would be guys like Talbot, Lack/Markstrom, Dubnyk, Niemi, ect potentially on the market.

Granted, we'd probably be hearing a lot of "I can't beleive he let Hammond walk" had he acted differently.

 

[BonkTastic]

Murray put himself in a bad market.

He was going to be lambasted regardless of what he did.

He'll hear it from the pro-Andy part of the fanbase if Anderson gets moved, he'll hear it from the pro-Lehner part of the fanbase if he trades Lehner, and he would have heard it from the pro-Hamburglar part of the fanbase if he hadn't re-signed Hammond. There isn't an option out there that doesn't have part of the fanbase angry at him regardless of what decision he makes, and the only reason he's even in the position he was in in the first place was because we unexpectedly had "too many good goalies".


So he put himself in a bad market... how, exactly? By having too many goalies? I don't understand this argument. I mean, it would certainly be more convenient if we had 3 goalies during a period where the rest of the league is being stingy at the position, but Murray can't control the market.

 

[Micklebot]

Yep.

The only time you ever see goalies go for anything close to full value is when a specific team is desperate, and the market us unusualy thin with available goaltenders. .. but teams are rarely desperate for goalies because there is usually a flooded market of them. It's almost always a buyer's market.

Funny how it was never a buyers market when we went through years of Lalime, Emery, Gerber, Auld and Leclaire.

 

[BK201]

**** if it's only a third why even bother just waive Hammond and stay the course.

At this point it just sounds bleak as ****.

 

[Benjamin]

He was going to be lambasted regardless of what he did.

He'll hear it from the pro-Andy part of the fanbase if Anderson gets moved, he'll hear it from the pro-Lehner part of the fanbase if he trades Lehner, and he would have heard it from the pro-Hamburglar part of the fanbase if he hadn't re-signed Hammond. There isn't an option out there that doesn't have part of the fanbase angry at him regardless of what decision he makes, and the only reason he's even in the position he was in in the first place was because we unexpectedly had "too many good goalies".


So he put himself in a bad market... how, exactly? By having too many goalies? I don't understand this argument. I mean, it would certainly be more convenient if we had 3 goalies during a period where the rest of the league is being stingy at the position, but Murray can't control the market.

Just don't sign Hammond. Pretty simple.

 

[BonkTastic]

Funny how it was never a buyers market when we went through years of Lalime, Emery, Gerber, Auld and Leclaire.

There was always good goalies available back then. It was always a buyer's market.

Lalime - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.

Emery - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.

Gerber - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.

Auld - he was never supposed to be anything more than an average backup during his stints in Ottawa. We got what we paid for.

Leclaire - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.


There is a consistent pattern to Ottawa's past goalie failures: an organizational refusal to pay top market dollars for a top market goalie, and an inability to forecast goalies at the pro level.

 

[BonkTastic]

Just don't sign Hammond. Pretty simple.

Pretty simple to YOU, because you're a pro-Andy/Lehner guy.


I can guarantee that a massive part of the casual fanbase would be irate at Murray if he's let Hammond walk after all of the Hamburglar craze last season.

To a pro-Hammond guy (which I'm sure there are tons of in Ottawa after our stretch run last season), they would probably say "Just trade Lehner. Pretty simple".

 

[Micklebot]

There was always good goalies available back then. It was always a buyer's market.

Lalime - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.

Emery - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.

Gerber - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.

Auld - he was never supposed to be anything more than an average backup during his stints in Ottawa. We got what we paid for.

Leclaire - we thought we had "the guy". We didn't get a better one because we didn't want to pay for an established elite guy, plus we made an error in talent assessment.


There is a consistent pattern to Ottawa's past goalie failures: an organizational refusal to pay top market dollars for a top market goalie, and an inability to forecast goalies at the pro level.

So what you're saying is we were the StL blues?

 

[Busboy]

**** if it's only a third why even bother just waive Hammond and stay the course.

At this point it just sounds bleak as ****.

I agree with this. I wouldn't mind seeing Hammond waived if Lehner impresses in camp although I'm sure Murray would be worried about it being a distraction through summer and training camp.

But to me, this is the worst case scenario and it's still a pretty great place to be. All the *****ing about Murray putting himself in this position is just strange. He put us in a position where he have depth every in the org except in the top 6 and top 4.

We have two holes to fill (top 6 forward and top 4 d) with plenty of prospects and young players trending upwards. We're in a damn good spot right now which is why Murray is comfortable speaking with the media openly. We're not desperate and we're not being forced into anything, we've got something other teams want and we've made our needs public knowledge.

 

[Super Cake]

Pretty simple to YOU, because you're a pro-Andy/Lehner guy.


I can guarantee that a massive part of the casual fanbase would be irate at Murray if he's let Hammond walk after all of the Hamburglar craze last season.

To a pro-Hammond guy (which I'm sure there are tons of in Ottawa after our stretch run last season), they would probably say "Just trade Lehner. Pretty simple".

I specifically am not really pro Lehner, pro Hammond or pro Anderson. I am pro Ottawa Senators, meaning i want what is best for the team.

I just don't know if trading one of Anderson or Lehner is what is best for the team. Whatever though. Murray makes the decisions and i will keep on watching like i always do, but i will be a little bit worried of going into next season with a Hammond-Lehner tandem.

 

[Benjamin]

Pretty simple to YOU, because you're a pro-Andy/Lehner guy.


I can guarantee that a massive part of the casual fanbase would be irate at Murray if he's let Hammond walk after all of the Hamburglar craze last season.

To a pro-Hammond guy (which I'm sure there are tons of in Ottawa after our stretch run last season), they would probably say "Just trade Lehner. Pretty simple".

If this is true than he's a terrible GM for making moves based on fan reaction.

Couldn't he prep the Hammond fans for disappointment like he's doing with Anderson/Lehner?

I don't think what you're saying is true at all.

 

[Rodzilla]

I love Murray really, but now I read this thread and I'm hungover as **** and need to whine a bit.

Murray at first in the Sun interview said he'd want to sweeten the pot in the goalie trade to get what he wants. After he said a potential top 6 because he'd throw a bad contract in the mix, and now you're saying he told NHL he will lose the trade or something like that.

Jesus come on, the worst is he'll ship out a 23 years old goalie who with 50 starts or more by this age he's in the same stats category than guys like Price Varlamov etc.


Not saying he'll be Price of course but come on Anderson has 3 years left in him as a good goalie and that is if he stays healthy. After that we'll be left with Hammond O'Connor and Hogberg potentially. Jumping to conclusions here but that's terrible asset management. That and the few bad contracts he's given up lately and we're handcuffed, by ourselves ....


I still hold out hope because he made some good trades too but come on man, saying he'll lose the trade. Okay market is full of goalies but if that's the case then waive Hammond ...

 

[BonkTastic]

If this is true than he's a terrible GM for making moves based on fan reaction.

I didn't say he was making moves based on fan reaction.

I'm saying your assessment of what a "pretty simple" decision consists of isn't legion amongst Sens fans. It's simple to YOU, because it is in line with your personal assessment of the team. To another fan, what is "pretty simple" to you is crazy to them. I'm talking about fan perspectives here.

Also - Murray's perspective might not be the same as yours... and in fairness, he has access to a crap-ton more variables than you or I do.