King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
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Prospect Info: 2015 Draft Thread
- Thread starter Ziggy Stardust
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SCARFACE909
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2012
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Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I think he's still looking for that next Keith Primeau like forward, sure, it didn't necessarily work out with Zultek or Karlsson or Steckel or Boyle, but one day...
kingsfan28
Its A Kingspiracy !
Taylor never would've traded up as long as Al Murray was in his ear.
Taylor:" Zach Parise is still there, we can move up and grab him,"
Murray: "Parise is too small,he'll never make it. Brian Boyle is 6-8" and will dominate like Lindros"
Taylor "Are you sure?"
Murray:"Positive!"
Bettman: "We have a trade to announce.NJ trades the 22nd pick via St.Louis, and the 68th to EDM for the 17th pick"
Bettman: "With the 17th pick, NJ selects Zach Parise."
Taylor: "What do they know that we don't?"
Taylor and Murray sit in silence not sure what to do and call a timeout.
Tampa has been drafting very well since Al took over.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008385.html
Look at their record from 2011 on.
The development under that regime was horrible. Quick would have busted if DL didn't make the changes he did.
Manchester was a zoo and I am sure scouting was way under funded
kingsfan28
Its A Kingspiracy !
I'm guessing it has more to due with Stevie Y being the GM and what he learned in Detroit than Al Murray and his eye for talent. We all saw first hand how bad a judge of talent he had.
417th
Pacifist Division
Wow Button says we take Konecny at 13 leaving Barzal to the B's. I just can't see that happening. IF Barzal fell to #13 I have to believe that he would be a great fit for us and is the better of the two.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
From the time Dave Taylor became GM with his first draft in 1997 to his last draft in 2005, the Kings selected only 10 players outside of the 1st round who appeared in 200+ NHL games.
That is 10 players out of 9 years of drafts, and 76 picks outside of the 1st round.
Those 10 players are:
Joe Corvo
Frantisek Kaberle
Brian McGrattan
George Parros
Andreas Lilja
Lubomir Visnovsky
Michael Cammalleri
Cristobal Huet
Aaron Rome
Jonathan Quick
That's not a very good success rate, and only two of those guys on that list who panned out were 2nd round selections, Cammalleri and Lilja.
The old regime was dreadful in finding talent in round 2 and barely had any success of finding NHL talent beyond the 1st round (and their success in the 1st round wasn't all that great either).
That is 10 players out of 9 years of drafts, and 76 picks outside of the 1st round.
Those 10 players are:
Joe Corvo
Frantisek Kaberle
Brian McGrattan
George Parros
Andreas Lilja
Lubomir Visnovsky
Michael Cammalleri
Cristobal Huet
Aaron Rome
Jonathan Quick
That's not a very good success rate, and only two of those guys on that list who panned out were 2nd round selections, Cammalleri and Lilja.
The old regime was dreadful in finding talent in round 2 and barely had any success of finding NHL talent beyond the 1st round (and their success in the 1st round wasn't all that great either).
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
While I'm loath to defend Dave Taylor's draft record, that's not a bad rate.
People refer to Detroit as a great drafting team. In those same years you cited -1997 to 2005- they made 75 selections and just 12 made the 200+ NHL game mark. So one less pick and two more players. Not earth-shatteringly better than LA.
Beyond the first round, and definitely beyond the 2nd round, the odds of a guy playing 200+ games is quite low, I think under 10 per cent if I'm recalling the math correctly.
DL had his draft failures, primarily producing almost no elite players, but producing foot soldiers wasn't really it.
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
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I actually think the Yotes are going to trade out of the three spot. They don't seem high on anyone after the top two picks.
Emerz
#1 PLD Fanboy
http://www.capebretonpost.com/Sport...’s-going-to-be-a-huge-week-in-my-life/1
Little article with Svechnikov talking about the Kings in the local paper today.
The elder Svechnikov said he’s been in contact with several NHL teams, but had more involved meetings with the Los Angeles Kings, Toronto Maple Leafs and the Winnipeg Jets.
“I really like the Los Angeles Kings,” said Svechnikov, who will attend Russia’s national junior team camp this July.
“I’ve been thinking about Los Angeles, but you never know. I want to go there, but it’s a draft.”
Little article with Svechnikov talking about the Kings in the local paper today.
The elder Svechnikov said he’s been in contact with several NHL teams, but had more involved meetings with the Los Angeles Kings, Toronto Maple Leafs and the Winnipeg Jets.
“I really like the Los Angeles Kings,” said Svechnikov, who will attend Russia’s national junior team camp this July.
“I’ve been thinking about Los Angeles, but you never know. I want to go there, but it’s a draft.”
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
DL and crew have done great at drafting Russians who actually want to come to NA and play, so if they are in on Svechnikov, that likely shows he has little interest in returning to Russia.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Peter James Bond II
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Button is crazy. Boeser at #9? Konecny at #33? I don't see Barzal dropping that far and seems like a certain top 10.
He broke his kneecap in November...would have possibly scored 100 pts on the year, if not had that misfortune. He led Team Canada in scoring at both the U18 and Ivan Hlinka tournament. Pretty impressive. The buzz is, that he will go higher.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=33989
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=186310
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Reaper45
Registered User
We usually hear more stuff like this pre draft. I remember when I thought for sure the Kings were going to draft Tatar after having tons of meetings with him. Sometimes I feel like it's just a ruse.
LAKings88
First round fodder
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
One thing to note in how draft lists are formed, there is generally four 'periods' for teams making their list.
The first would be the years before the player is even draft eligible. This is mostly for making notes about guys and not really serious scouting, outside of the guys like McDavid, Eichel, etc. that have been on the radar for a long time. Most kids will be looked at more to take brief notes on their skating, size, etc. just to have something to compare to in terms of gauging their improvement during their actual draft year. Scouts will also start talking to kids, often as early as 15, more the gauge his demeanor, sometimes those discussions go to the parent/home life, though often a good working relationship with junior clubs fills that in. For the high end ones, they might meet with their family or the player here as well, like the Kings did with Drew apparently one year before he was drafted.
The second period is the start of the season, this is when there is a broad heavy scouting of draft eligible players. If you are draft eligible, you are getting watched. Usually lasts into about Christmas. After this, teams semi-formalize a list of players they like and don't like and then the teams start to fine tune who they are looking at and plan scouting trips accordingly.
The third period is when teams really fine tune their lists, spending more time focusing on guys they liked and trying to pick out flaws in their game. Lots of focus on talking to coaches, GM's of junior clubs, etc. Get as much info on a guy who is likely to be a draft choice of yours as possible. You find out everything from his fitness regime and social life to his Call of Duty rankings.
The four period is typically the playoffs, possibly the World Cup for guys like Eichel, etc. This is where you may also spend some time watching guys who didn't get picked up earlier on your scouting reports, guys who you may have wrote off earlier but are getting attention in scouting circles elsewhere, etc.
For Barzal, that early injury may have fallen when some teams where fine tuning their list during that second period. That is a critical period, arguably the most critical. If you start lower on a list there it can be nearly impossible to get back up it. Keep in mind most teams only have a limit scouting staff and usually at most 3-4 scouts in each region, so rededicating them to watch some who they had sort of bypassed previously isn't so easily done, especially in a large region like the WHL. Barzal is also in Seattle, so it's a bit out of the loop unlike a more centralized location like Calgary which also has NHL clubs flying in and out off and even the teams GM could potentially sneak off to watch a kid play.
I recall when I was working with McKeens this exact issue coming up in 2001 regarding Marek Svatos. The kid had issues with his visa I believe and then got hurt, so he was totally bypassed by everyone. The fact he was passed over in the previous draft hurt as well. So when he finally hit the ice and then started scoring at a point per game it wasn't until that fourth period when he really started to creep onto draft lists. Hence he ended up being such a low selection (227th overall) that that selection doesn't even exist anymore at the draft. Kid went on to post a few really good seasons in the NHl though, including 32 and 26 goal seasons.
It would make sense with Barzal. He started off on a lot of rankings in the 15-20 spot and has slowly been creeping his way back up ever since, so for him to fall out of the top 10 wouldn't be a stretch in my eyes. I could see him being on the board potentially when LA picks even.
Not a ruse, just Tatar was likely higher on Detroit's list than LA's. He went end of round two, LA could have had him ranked right there as well but keep in mind LA picked at 35 (which was likely to high for Tatar at the time) and then not again until pick 84. I'd be shocked if Tatar wasn't on the Kings list and likely well above pick 84.
Peter James Bond II
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Great post! Thank you for the insight and time you took on that!
What about the combine / tests / interviews? I am sure that
changes the final list..some or most teams now even have a
person who has psychological credentials, sit in on the interviews,
to give their assessment on the psych / character makeup of the
prospect.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
Suprised I still read the Kings should draft a goalie in round 1 or 2 when he is the BPA.
This has been discussed to death.
Look for how little the Kings traded Bernier and that's only one reason. Plenty of other reasons.
You pick a goalie in round 3 or later.
This has been discussed to death.
Look for how little the Kings traded Bernier and that's only one reason. Plenty of other reasons.
You pick a goalie in round 3 or later.
Peter James Bond II
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damacles1156
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If you want a potential starter for when Quick eventually slows down due to age *which will happen sooner rather than later).
You pick that Goalie round 1 or 2. The vast majority of high end starters in the NHL at (Any) position, were picked round 1 or 2.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
The combine and interviews are valued different by every team. Some value them a lot, some don't.
Me personally, I think they do hold some value, but more for the standouts/lowlights. I read an article a week or so ago about the guys that did well and not so well at the combine and one stood out for me. The goalie, Wellwood. It was noted he didn't seem to impressed to even be there if I recall the article right. A bit of a red flag for me. This is your (likely) first chance to meet a large group of what will be your future bosses and you give a flat interview. That's concerning. As a 18-year-old meeting several different NHL teams upper brass (most prospects don't interview with all teams at the combine and the week leading up to the draft due to sheer violume of players and teams), not to mention some of those teams have former NHL players and stars in their upper brass, you'd think you'd be like a kid in a candy store, not looking uninterested.
In general though, i don't put much stock in either. Like I said, if a kid rocks an interview or blows the doors off everyone else at one or more drills, you note it, but if your staff has been doing its work you should already know if the kid has character flaws or is bad in the locker room, you should already know if he works out regular or is a couch potato. Referencing back to that visit DL had with Drew when he was 17, the Kings told him he needs to get in shape. They had done their homework, they knew he had commitment issues relating to the eating right, possibly to hitting the gym as well. They didn't need the formal interview or the combine to figure it out.
Not sure I buy into having a psychological specialist there, that seems a bit much. We are after all talking about 18-year-old kids, you really want to know if they have a good work ethic, are coachable, are good in the locker room and, if appicable, try to gauge if they will want to come to North America, under what conditions, etc.
And Quick is 30 this year and it took Bernier five seasons to even make the NHL as a regular backup. I have no issues with drafting Quick's replacement already, for every Lunqvist and Broduer there is a Niklas Backstrom and Cam Ward.
Also, at the time Bernier didn't fetch a bad return. Frattin was coming off an injury plagued but decent season, Scrivens was an ideal backup, they also got a 2nd and part of the salary was consumed by the Leafs. When you factor in Bernier also played three seasons and parts of two others with the Kings it's hard to say LA didn't get value for the pick they used on Bernier.
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