Proposal: 2015-2016 Season Trade Rumours & Proposals | Part XI

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Just on the topic of Cobern for a second, isn't he bordering on a 3rd pairing D with Tampa at this point, playing less minutes than just about everyone besides Nesterov and playing against weaker competing than any other D there?

Why would anyone think he's better than Phaneuf?

Crippling bias.

 

[topshelf15]

True. He has more value to us because he's a local boy. If his name was Andrej Meszaros from Slovakia, nobody would care is he was traded.

Ceci isnt replaceable ,jesus guys .We have a an already solid and growing 22 year old two way defender.That just scored 10 goals behind the best OFD on the planet ,you people need to stop and think before you get too caught up in what a player has done for a few playoff games.

This exact type of thinking got us Colin Greening last time

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Drouin for Ceci??

IMO it would have taken much more than that to get Drouin then and especially now.

Ceci, White and a 1st would be closer.

The thing to me is that there are much deeper teams than the Sens that could greater afford a package of a young D that can play, a good prospect and a high end pick.

Love Drouin , he is a very good/ excellent /elite piece, but he's one piece.

 

[PatrickEaves]

Idk, people were pretty upset when we moved Meszaros.

There was also a time when Mez looked like he would be a legit future top pairing guy.

I'll always remember the 40+ minutes he and Pothier gave us when all of Redden, Phillips, Chara and Volchenkov were injured.

 

[topshelf15]

IMO it would have taken much more than that to get Drouin then and especially now.

Ceci, White and a 1st would be closer.

The thing to me is that there are much deeper teams than the Sens that could greater afford a package of a young D that can play, a good prospect and a high end pick.

Love Drouin , he is a very good/ excellent /elite piece, but he's one piece.

Funny thing ,in almost every deal mentioned for a young forward. The first piece we hear they want is Ceci .That alone should tell this fanbase something,others see him as a good you dman .But we dont??

 

[PatrickEaves]

Funny thing ,in almost every deal mentioned for a young forward. The first piece we hear they want is Ceci .That alone should tell this fanbase something,others see him as a good you dman .But we dont??

To play devil's advocate, if you wanted a defenseman from the Sens, who else would you ask for instead of Ceci?

You aren't getting Karlsson, because there's no way you'll be willing to part with what's needed to get him, and everyone else on the the defense is kinda bleh as a trade piece to trade for.

 

[Micklebot]

To play devil's advocate, if you wanted a defenseman from the Sens, who else would you ask for instead of Ceci?

You aren't getting Karlsson, because there's no way you'll be willing to part with what's needed to get him, and everyone else on the the defense is kinda bleh as a trade piece to trade for.

Chabot? If it has to be a roster piece, Methot+?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Funny thing ,in almost every deal mentioned for a young forward. The first piece we hear they want is Ceci .That alone should tell this fanbase something,others see him as a good you dman .But we dont??

Not sure we can say "We don't". I for one really like Ceci. I know there are plenty of others as that do as well.

 

[topshelf15]

To play devil's advocate, if you wanted a defenseman from the Sens, who else would you ask for instead of Ceci?

You aren't getting Karlsson, because there's no way you'll be willing to part with what's needed to get him, and everyone else on the the defense is kinda bleh as a trade piece to trade for.

Yep, but claiming nonsensical things like there is one just like him in every draft ,or we should have traded him because Drouin is having a solid start to his playoffs ,is very shortsighted

 

[topshelf15]

Not sure we can say "We don't". I for one really like Ceci. I know there are plenty of others as that do as well.

I like Drouin also ,but i can understand why BM.Wasnt interested in Drouin or some other forward at the cost of him.We have had many issues this season ,i dont count Ceci as one of them

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

He's still making 7M a year. Sure, we're saving money until the end of next season but we're still going to be tied up with his huge contract after that.

Should've just bought out Cowen and or Greening and signed a FA.

7MM in cap hit, $4.2 in actual salary. The salary is what really matters, not this artificial calculation called cap hit. This is true for any team but particularly for this team that has no money and lots of cap space.

But for your second point, lets say you bought out Greening, Cowen and Michalek.
You save 1/3 of salary owed which means it costs about $8MM more to go that route (save $4MM of $12MM, or $1.6 a season over 5 years)

Then you sign an equivalent FA. Add in the $8MM difference above, that means you could sign a player for $2.6MM for it to cost the same as Phaneuf is costing us. Which gets you garbage these days.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Idk, people were pretty upset when we moved Meszaros.

still mad

 

[topshelf15]

7MM in cap hit, $4.2 in actual salary. The salary is what really matters, not this artificial calculation called cap hit. This is true for any team but particularly for this team that has no money and lots of cap space.

But for your second point, lets say you bought out Greening, Cowen and Michalek.
You save 1/3 of salary owed which means it costs about $8MM more to go that route (save $4MM of $12MM, or $1.6 a season over 5 years)

Then you sign an equivalent FA. Add in the $8MM difference above, that means you could sign a player for $2.6MM for it to cost the same as Phaneuf is costing us. Which gets you garbage these days.

We arent looking to add a F/A,anything,they just simply cost far too much .We have some good young nhl depth, with some interesting prospects.That should be able for us to add through trade rather than the latter.Having Phaneuf doesnt hurt us ,we have enough contracts coming off the books whenever bigger pieces need their contracts

 

[Micklebot]

He's still making 7M a year. Sure, we're saving money until the end of next season but we're still going to be tied up with his huge contract after that.

Should've just bought out Cowen and or Greening and signed a FA.

If you include Michalek's salary minus the replacement player, we are saving about 4 mil in real dollars next year by having Phaneuf help the team rather than Cowen hurt the team while Michalek nurses a broken whatever he ends up hurting and Greening plays in Bingo.

Its the season after that which costs us 7 mil for Phaneuf's service after which his salary continues to decline.

In fact, buying out Greening and Cowen would have had us paying them a salary for twice as long (but only a portion of it). So, buying them out would have cost us 3.6 mil for the right to not have them grace our ice for two seasons.

So, can you get a UFA D that provides as much as Phaneuf does, for essentially nothing next season (~3.2 for converting Michalek to Dzingel or other prospect, and the buyout cost of Greening and Cowen at 3.6 totaling), and then ~3.4 the season after? Probably not. In 2018-19, when the buyouts would be clear, we'd be comparing 6.5 in salary to available UFA, at which point you can probably find better value, same goes for 19-20. At 5.5 in 20-21 I think it'll be dependant on how Phaneuf's body is holding up.

 

[topshelf15]

If you include Michalek's salary minus the replacement player, we are saving about 4 mil in real dollars next year by having Phaneuf help the team rather than Cowen hurt the team while Michalek nurses a broken whatever he ends up hurting and Greening plays in Bingo.

Its the season after that which costs us 7 mil for Phaneuf's service after which his salary continues to decline.

In fact, buying out Greening and Cowen would have had us paying them a salary for twice as long (but only a portion of it). So, buying them out would have cost us 3.6 mil for the right to not have them grace our ice for two seasons.

So, can you get a UFA D that provides as much as Phaneuf does, for essentially nothing next season (~3.2 for converting Michalek to Dzingel or other prospect, and the buyout cost of Greening and Cowen at 3.6 totaling), and then ~3.4 the season after? Probably not. In 2018-19, when the buyouts would be clear, we'd be comparing 6.5 in salary to available UFA, at which point you can probably find better value, same goes for 19-20. At 5.5 in 20-21 I think it'll be dependant on how Phaneuf's body is holding up.

Thats the beauty of it really ,by him having a diminishing dollar amount we could hold back alot of his actual cap hit .And move him with freindlier cap deal

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

still mad

Haha, so that's the thread scheduled for 2018

 

[Senateurs]

Idk, people were pretty upset when we moved Meszaros.

He wasn't traded for a player like Drouin. I think we got Kuba, Picard out of that deal.

Ceci isnt replaceable ,jesus guys .We have a an already solid and growing 22 year old two way defender.That just scored 10 goals behind the best OFD on the planet ,you people need to stop and think before you get too caught up in what a player has done for a few playoff games.

This exact type of thinking got us Colin Greening last time

I understand your point about Greening. He was hot for a week and got a very good deal out of it. It may have something to do with playing with Pageau. Everybody seems to be looking good when playing with him. Ask Condra how he likes his new contract.

On the other hand, Drouin has been dominant at every level he played. There is just no point of comparing the two players here.

Which brings me to Ceci. I love Ceci, but for a player like Drouin, I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

 

[BatherSeason]

Yep, but claiming nonsensical things like there is one just like him in every draft ,or we should have traded him because Drouin is having a solid start to his playoffs ,is very shortsighted

Isn't it shortsighted to truly believe that Ceci solidifies our top 4 when he really has only shown a few months of decent hockey??

Just playing devil's advocate here. You gotta give something up to get something. In one breath we all admit that we need some depth on our left side. In order to get the "cost-controlled" left-winger, we need to give up someone. Karlsson is not going anywhere, so that leaves 4 other D. Nobody wants any of them.

I think people are taking any thoughts of trading Cody Ceci way too personally. If I or anyone else is suggesting trading Ceci for Drouin, then it should serve as a compliment to Cody Ceci that he is even mentioned in the same breath.

Who else do we give up in any trade that won't leave us with a void?? We trade Zbad for a LWer, who replaces him. Same with Hoff. The reality is, we don't have the depth to trade any of our players to fill a void. As bad as our D is, Claesson can step in and the difference between Ceci/Claesson isn't as big of a hole as swapping Zbad with Lazar for example.

 

[BonkTastic]

still mad

Dude was out of the league as a 29 year old, and we ended up with the better players over the life of the deal.

We won the trade.



FUN FACT: Matt Puempel can be traced all the way back to the Meszaros trade, so you can argue that the trade is still paying dividends even today.

(we traded Meszaros for a package including San Jose's 1st rounder, which we traded for a package including Mike Comrie Chris Campoli, who we traded for Chicago's 2011 2nd rounder, which we traded to move up in the draft to take Puempel.)

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

Dude was out of the league as a 29 year old, and we ended up with the better players over the life of the deal.

We won the trade.



FUN FACT: Matt Puempel can be traced all the way back to the Meszaros trade, so you can argue that the trade is still paying dividends even today.

(we traded Meszaros for a package including San Jose's 1st rounder, which we traded for a package including Mike Comrie, who we traded for Chicago's 2011 2nd rounder, which we traded to move up in the draft to take Puempel.)

Pretty sure you are confusing the pieces involved. Comrie was part of that package, but Campoli was the guy dealt for Chi 2nd.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I would've done Ceci for Drouin if that was what Stevie Y wanted

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

As bad as our D is, Claesson can step in and the difference between Ceci/Claesson isn't as big of a hole as swapping Zbad with Lazar for example.

I doubt there's a bigger fan of Freddie Claesson on this board than I, but I really don't agree with this. It's so much easier to hide the flaws of a forward and insulate them than a defenseman. Not to mention, Ceci is a RD and Claesson is a LD. There's imo a big gap between a real top 4 D who can produce and play against top competition and a guy who can play spot duty.

If you have Lazar playing between Ryan and Hoffman instead of Zibanejad for example, the drop off won't be that significant compared to demanding Claesson play 20+ and take many D zone starts against top 6 forwards (on his off side).

Not to mention we have Pageau. This would be more like Lazar becoming our 3rd C vs Wideman or Claesson (more likely Wideman) becoming a staple on the top 4.

While some players are just better than others, at some point you have to factor in their positions and values based on where they play in your line up. Top 4 RD is really important. I'd say like top 6 or 7 most important guy on your team on your average team.

 

[BondraTime]

Drouin is easily the better asset than Ceci.

Ceci is needed in Ottawa.

I personally would have jumped at that, though it's very understandable why we didn't.

I'd kill to see them overload on Karlsson on the PP and giving Drouin the half wall with Stone and Hoffman.

 

[Sensinitis]

looking at team needs Ceci > Drouin imo

If you have a draft Drouin goes first obviously, but given our team I take Ceci.

We can find a player similar to Drouin by other means, maybe not as good but good enough for us to compete.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Pretty sure you are confusing the pieces involved. Comrie was part of that package, but Campoli was the guy dealt for Chi 2nd.

It was a late first for Comrie (rental)+Campoli (young RFA defender).

Campoli didn't pan out with Ottawa and was flipped for a second that was about 20 spots back of the first they originally gave up. Meaning, Ottawa gave up something like 20 draft spots for a few years of Campoli and Comrie as a rental.

Later, the 2nd they got for Campoli was used to trade up for Puempel, so he does trace back to that original trade, but it was Campoli who was flipped not Comrie. Which he probably meant.