Proposal: 2015-2016 Season Trade Rumours & Proposals | Part VIII

[Burrowsaurus]

But he does the exact same thing on offense, skates fast accomplishes nothing

Except for accomplishing a high points per 60 as well as generating shots? Yes. "Accomplishes nothing".

 

[Ouroboros]

You guys could save a lot of one another's time by just admitting that there is no possible stat or observation that could ever change your mind about Prince. Or any other player really. I've never seen it happen.

 

[Micklebot]

No it hasn't. The team scores when he's on the ice. This in no way details how much of an influence he has had in the team scoring.

For a guy with 3 goals and 9 assists, I don't think I would go so far as to say that he is an offensive catalyst in any sense of the word.

It's probably more likely that he's on the ice providing little in terms of value while Karlsson skates the puck up the ice and the team scores a goal. Oh, but that was all due to the dynamic offensive prowess that Prince brings...which none of us can see with our eyes while we watch the game...but a stat says it is there, so I guess we should play Price more than Turris.

Interesting that you bring up Karlsson...

Player (100+ mins played)|GF/60 without Karlsson
Prince|2.4
Hoffman|2.34
Everybody else|<2.0

 

[topshelf15]

So goals from the bottom 6 don't count as much as goals from the top 6?

I for one will take goals no matter where they come from.

For what it's worth,

Center|GF/60|TOI
Turris|1.71|70:02
Zibanejad|4.31|111:15
Not Turris/Zib|2.42|247:41

In a limited sample, his line struggled with Turris as the center, thrived with Zibanejad as the center, and were above average in the bottom 6 (away from Turris/Zib, it would rank 6th or 5th among forwards depending on if you include Michalek or not)

Enough spin doctoring ,for a supposedly skilled offensive player with these stats you keep bringing up .Why has he failed to produce more than 3 goals while playing against weaker competition ??He is supposed to be so much better offensively than his linemates ,but cant show it against the exact same competition they are facing

 

[topshelf15]

Except for accomplishing a high points per 60 as well as generating shots? Yes. "Accomplishes nothing".

Or sorry 3 goals while playing against other teams bottom 6 players. makes you stud offensive player because some incomplete stat says soGod i hope Neil and his 2 goals against that very same competition doesnt make him ask for more money now

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

No it hasn't. The team scores when he's on the ice. This in no way details how much of an influence he has had in the team scoring.

For a guy with 3 goals and 9 assists, I don't think I would go so far as to say that he is an offensive catalyst in any sense of the word.

It's probably more likely that he's on the ice providing little in terms of value while Karlsson skates the puck up the ice and the team scores a goal. Oh, but that was all due to the dynamic offensive prowess that Prince brings...which none of us can see with our eyes while we watch the game...but a stat says it is there, so I guess we should play Price more than Turris.

Are you able to make an argument that he doesn't drive offense when he's on the ice?

He shoots more than his bottom 6 peers, he puts up more points than his bottom 6 peers and his possession numbers are better than his bottom 6 peers. What's the argument against him? 3 goals? From a playmaker playing with Chris Neil (7 assists) and Zack Smith (5 assists). He's not burying those sweet feeds from Neil, Smith, Mccormick and Lazar?

He's done all anyone could expect from in his role. He gets no PP time while guys like Lazar, Chiasson and Smith do. What can one reasonably expect?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Enough spin doctoring ,for a supposedly skilled offensive player with these stats you keep bringing up .Why has he failed to produce more than 3 goals while playing against weaker competition ??He is supposed to be so much better offensively than his linemates ,but cant show it against the exact same competition they are facing

Uh he regularly shows he's better than that weak opposition. Tough to rack up points when you are receiving and sending passes from and to Chris Neil. Again. Rookie. Not many rookies light the world on fire offensively. Don't we have a guy struggling massively. He's a sophomore now? Don't a lot of you still believe in him? Why not Prince?

 

[God Says No]

Or sorry 3 goals while playing against other teams bottom 6 players. makes you stud offensive player because some incomplete stat says soGod i hope Neil and his 2 goals against that very same competition doesnt make him ask for more money now

I'm still waiting on my answer which player you expose to waivers. A, B or C. Or maybe all of them?

 

[Micklebot]

Enough spin doctoring ,for a supposedly skilled offensive player with these stats you keep bringing up .Why has he failed to produce more than 3 goals while playing against weaker competition ??He is supposed to be so much better offensively than his linemates ,but cant show it against the exact same competition they are facing

It's pretty amusing to be accused of spin doctoring by you of all people here.

Here's a quick list of some guys with less Goals per 60 (not on ice goals, but actual goals)

ROR
Strome
Joe Thornton
Stastny
Ribiero
Backes
Grigorenko
Moulson
Tanguay
H.Sedin
Getzlaf
Koivu
Ennis

Maybe, just maybe, goals isn't the be all and end all stat for a playmaker.

 

[Shanny]

Are you able to make an argument that he doesn't drive offense when he's on the ice?

He shoots more than his bottom 6 peers, he puts up more points than his bottom 6 peers and his possession numbers are better than his bottom 6 peers. What's the argument against him? 3 goals? From a playmaker playing with Chris Neil (7 assists) and Zack Smith (5 assists). He's not burying those sweet feeds from Neil, Smith, Mccormick and Lazar?

He's done all anyone could expect from in his role. He gets no PP time while guys like Lazar, Chiasson and Smith do. What can one reasonably expect?

Don't forget the offensive right wing dynamo Mark Borowiecki was his line mate for a few games as well thus far this season.

 

[Zorf]

Are you able to make an argument that he doesn't drive offense when he's on the ice?

He shoots more than his bottom 6 peers, he puts up more points than his bottom 6 peers and his possession numbers are better than his bottom 6 peers. What's the argument against him? 3 goals? From a playmaker playing with Chris Neil (7 assists) and Zack Smith (5 assists). He's not burying those sweet feeds from Neil, Smith, Mccormick and Lazar?

He's done all anyone could expect from in his role. He gets no PP time while guys like Lazar, Chiasson and Smith do. What can one reasonably expect?

I think one can reasonably expect that he do something to take that extra ice time away from the players you listed. Your entire argument is that he's bringing more offense, but you are failing to recognize that this single aspect is obviously not enough. Kid needs to bring more because he's on the fast track to being forgotten.

There's a reason he's a healthy scratch and chalking it up to being in Cameron's dog house is weak.

 

[topshelf15]

Uh he regularly shows he's better than that weak opposition. Tough to rack up points when you are receiving and sending passes from and to Chris Neil. Again. Rookie. Not many rookies light the world on fire offensively. Don't we have a guy struggling massively. He's a sophomore now? Don't a lot of you still believe in him? Why not Prince?

But he is usually lined up against other team, Neil types of players and cant produce .3 goals isnt enough for him to get a sniff at the top 6 ,and his defensive game needs work .Hense instead of limiting the team to having to shelter him.They have been looking for other options ,which in Prince,s case doesnt mean good news for him .And his time to crack the roster is dwindling

 

[The Lewler]

Someone propose a trade.

 

[topshelf15]

I'm still waiting on my answer which player you expose to waivers. A, B or C. Or maybe all of them?

As soon as i get mine

 

[topshelf15]

It's pretty amusing to be accused of spin doctoring by you of all people here.

Here's a quick list of some guys with less Goals per 60 (not on ice goals, but actual goals)

ROR
Strome
Joe Thornton
Stastny
Ribiero
Backes
Grigorenko
Moulson
Tanguay
H.Sedin
Getzlaf
Koivu
Ennis

Maybe, just maybe, goals isn't the be all and end all stat for a playmaker.

Still havent answered my original question pertaining your original stat ladden post to me .What is Prince ,sQOC ,offensive zone starts ?? How many of those impressive stats came with him playing against bottom 6 guys as opposed to top 6 guys .You are telling half truths here

 

[Burrowsaurus]

But he is usually lined up against other team, Neil types of players and cant produce .3 goals isnt enough for him to get a sniff at the top 6 ,and his defensive game needs work .Hense instead of limiting the team to having to shelter him.They have been looking for other options ,which in Prince,s case doesnt mean good news for him .And his time to crack the roster is dwindling

No other player has gotten Neil to play that well in the past like 5 years

No one has gotten the smith-Neil tandem to play that well in the past like 5 years. Also Neil is usually the worst player on the ice. So he playing against guys better than Chris Neil. Unless Prince is playing against chiasson or boro

 

[DJB]

Zibanejad to Tampa for Drouin and a 2016 first round pick or Sens 2017 first rounder for Drouin.

I would be fine with either but won't give more than that.

 

[topshelf15]

No other player has gotten Neil to play that well in the past like 5 years

No one has gotten the smith-Neil tandem to play that well in the past like 5 years. Also Neil is usually the worst player on the ice. So he playing against guys better than Chris Neil. Just saying.

Yep which is why he is on the 4th line ,so again why does Prince only have one more goal than he does playing against the same weaker competition again??This him being a playmaker first doesnt cut it ,he should be able to outskill most .And score more shouldnt he??

 

[Peptic Balcers]

Someone propose a trade.

Bump

 

[BonkTastic]

Someone propose a trade.

Alex Chiasson and a 3rd rounder for Mike McCarron.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yep which is why he is on the 4th line ,so again why does Prince only have one more goal than he does playing against the same weaker competition again??This him being a playmaker first doesnt cut it ,he should be able to outskill most .And score more shouldnt he??

Give me 10 rookies that regularly outskilled opponents and scored at a ridiculous high clip. Why are your expectations so high for Prince? He's a rookie. Who produces at a relatively high rate for how much ice time he has.

 

[Shanny]

Yep which is why he is on the 4th line ,so again why does Prince only have one more goal than he does playing against the same weaker competition again??This him being a playmaker first doesnt cut it ,he should be able to outskill most .And score more shouldnt he??

Because Prince has played 18 less games this season then Neil

 

[topshelf15]

Give me 10 rookies that regularly outskilled opponents and scored at a ridiculous high clip. Why are your expectations so high for Prince? He's a rookie. Who produces at a relatively high rate for how much ice time he has.

Funny ,we hear all the time about Lazar lack of offense.But he has scored more against tougher competition .But if we critic an older player with far more pro experience ,that scores less against weaker competition .I have set the bar too high

 

[God Says No]

As soon as i get mine

I already did. Just scroll up.

I give up. It's obvious you are ignoring everything that doesn't match your view.

Alex Chiasson and a 3rd rounder for Mike McCarron.

MTL hangs up. He's their only prospect who is taller than 6 feet. That's worth to them like a top 5 pick.

 

[Micklebot]

Still havent answered my original question pertaining your original stat ladden post to me .What is Prince ,sQOC ,offensive zone starts ?? How many of those impressive stats came with him playing against bottom 6 guys as opposed to top 6 guys .You are telling half truths here

With Zibanejad, 56.7 OZ start %.
With Turris, 34.3 OZ start %

combined With Turris or Zibanejad, 50.04 OZ starts, 3.31 GF/60, 58.8 GF%
Away from them; 49.0 OZ start %. 2.42 GF/60, 52.6 GF%

QOC isn't available in with or without you stats.

At the end of the day though, if he's victimizing the oppositions bottom 6 guys, who cares? It's good news either way.

The problem here is you started from the premise that he isn't producting offensively, which has been proven inaccurate. You suggested he doesn't shoot the puck, again inaccurate both indivdually and in terms of his lines shot generation.

Every time you are pointed out to be incorrect, you move the goalposts.