Proposal: 2015-2016 Season Trade Rumours & Proposals | Part VIII

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

We should never use Chiasson when comparing players because I think we can all agree he is just the worst.

I would look like a solid NHL player compared to Chiasson, and I'm slightly fat, have a damaged shoulder that will never fully heal from a hilariously nasty dislocation, and at 33 years of age I am passed my prime years.

Comparing him to Chiasson and the other bottom 6 guys here is the entire point. He's far better than most of them, yet sitting in the press box. This is the problem.

 

[topshelf15]

Comparing him to Chiasson and the other bottom 6 guys here is the entire point. He's far better than most of them, yet sitting in the press box. This is the problem.

How so?? he hasnt out produced them by much if at all ,and considering he is supposed to be an offensive player .This just makes him look worse

 

[God Says No]

Yep and these guys usually play against whom again ??He should be scoring at will against 3rd and 4th line players according to how talented he is to some around here .But isnt.....

So what are you expectations for a rookie winger playing bottom six?

Here's a fun stat. I'll list 3 players and their scoring totals for the first part of their career. They had similar starts to Prince. Now I'm not saying Prince will turn into the same type of players, but by your logic they should have been jettisoned.

Player A: 37 GP 4G 4A 8PTS - 0.2 PTS per game
Player B: 44 GP 3G 10A 13PTS - 0.3 PTS per game
Player C: 35 GP 7G 8A 15PTS - 0.4 PTS

Which players would you keep?

 

[BonkTastic]

I'm talking about on ice goals, not personal goals.

but as for what site, I'm using Hockeyanalysis.

Ah, ok. That explains why the stats I was looking at were so different, haha.

Thanks.

 

[Daffy]

Still haven't seen the quotes anywhere from Garrioch on Zibanejad

 

[operasen]

The eye test says Dzingel over Prince for me. Bigger, faster, more dynamic puck movement.

If Prince could be a part of a package this week, I'm okay with it. Dzingel and Puempel are next up.

Prince can play RW but has not been tried there. Bench Chiasson.

He has a great following in the Buffalo area - can we still get a 2nd from them?

 

[Scrub*]

Prince not playing has nothing to do with Chiasson. He's a left winger so we scratch Paul, Smith, or Dzingel to give him playing time. As soon as one of those 3 have a bad game Prince will come back in, or an injury.

 

[Zorf]

He's been on the ice for 20 goal for, which is 6 less than Turris in 12 fewer games. 1 less than Smith in 17 fewer games. (Chiasson Stats Removed). 3 more than Lazar in 11 fewer games.

The fact is, the offense is there. You can move the goalposts all you want, but he's provided that aspect of the game in the mins he's been given.

Even though these stats pump up his 3 goals in 2 games, it is his faults in other aspects of the game that make him a disposable player.

Ok, the team scores a bit when he's on the ice. But how much of the team scoring is due to him in particular?

I don't think that this alone overcomes his liabilities in other areas. If it did, he wouldn't be eating nachos in the pressbox all the time.


Advanced stats, or no stats at all, this is a results oriented business, and if you are not bringing what the coaches and management think is needed to get the results, then you get to eat nachos instead. Prince is eating nachos, and I for one am not missing whatever it was he brought to the ice.

I think it's worth the risk to put him on waivers back to Bingo and have him develop the balls out of his game because he's not doing much development right now. So in a sense, that would be better asset management.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Prince not playing has nothing to do with Chiasson. He's a left winger so we scratch Paul, Smith, or Dzingel to give him playing time. As soon as one of those 3 have a bad game Prince will come back in, or an injury.

I'll take any of those guys on their off wing over chiasson.

 

[topshelf15]

So what are you expectations for a rookie winger playing bottom six?

Here's a fun stat. I'll list 3 players and their scoring totals for the first part of their career. They had similar starts to Prince. Now I'm not saying Prince will turn into the same type of players, but by your logic they should have been jettisoned.

Player A: 37 GP 4G 4A 8PTS - 0.2 PTS per game
Player B: 44 GP 3G 10A 13PTS - 0.3 PTS per game
Player C: 35 GP 7G 8A 15PTS - 0.4 PTS

Which players would you keep?

How about we answer the question i posed first ??Prince has a grand total of 3 goals ,two of which came in the same game .For an offensive player that has played in a sheltered bottom 6 role against other teams bottom 6 players .How come he still only has three goals ??

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

How so?? he hasnt out produced them by much if at all ,and considering he is supposed to be an offensive player .This just makes him look worse

Except that this has been completely disproven over the past few pages.

 

[Zorf]

Comparing him to Chiasson and the other bottom 6 guys here is the entire point. He's far better than most of them, yet sitting in the press box. This is the problem.

C'mon man. You're going that far? Really?

You just lost me entirely.

Far better.

Haha.


Wait, have you been trolling us this entire time? If yes, then cudos to you, my good sir!

 

[Scrub*]

I'll take any of those guys on their off wing over chiasson.

Am sure most people would but wouldn't realize how difficult it is for any of those 3 to play their offside in their own zone or on breakouts. Not every player can play their offside well like Ovechkin.

 

[God Says No]

The eye test says Dzingel over Prince for me. Bigger, faster, more dynamic puck movement.

You do realize that Dzingel officially is bigger by one inch and 5 pounds. Maybe that one inch is really important to you, but it doesn't matter to me.

Prince not playing has nothing to do with Chiasson. He's a left winger so we scratch Paul, Smith, or Dzingel to give him playing time. As soon as one of those 3 have a bad game Prince will come back in, or an injury.

As stated already, Prince can play RW as he's played mostly there in the AHL. And he might have to if/when MacArthur comes back.

Even though these stats pump up his 3 goals in 2 games, it is his faults in other aspects of the game that make him a disposable player.

Ok, the team scores a bit when he's on the ice. But how much of the team scoring is due to him in particular?

He made the 4th line actually productive. That's an accomplishment not even Greening could do. What I've been impressed with is his puck retrieval. There were numerous times where he won the puck and hence the 4th line kept possession.

I don't think that this alone overcomes his liabilities in other areas. If it did, he wouldn't be eating nachos in the pressbox all the time.


Advanced stats, or no stats at all, this is a results oriented business, and if you are not bringing what the coaches and management think is needed to get the results, then you get to eat nachos instead. Prince is eating nachos, and I for one am not missing whatever it was he brought to the ice.

I think it's worth the risk to put him on waivers back to Bingo and have him develop the balls out of his game because he's not doing much development right now. So in a sense, that would be better asset management.

Nothing to do with advanced stats. He's in the press box because he's not DC's boy. There's something that rubs DC the wrong way about Prince. It was the same story with Hoffman. It's being repeated with Prince.

Can someone explain to me how Prince is a defensive liability? I just don't see it. If he's a defensive liability then Lazar, Neil and Chiasson are absolute pylons.

 

[topshelf15]

Except that this has been completely disproven over the past few pages.

No it hasnt at all ,he is in a sheltered role in the bottom 6 but cant outpace the guy,s he is supposed to be better than .Neil is a bottom 6 guy for the same reason Chia is one they arent good enough to play in the top 6 .This is pretty much the same with every other team in the league ,so Prince whom you say is better offensively, cant produce more that a goal more than Neil playing in the exact same role ??

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Am sure most people would but wouldn't realize how difficult it is for any of those 3 to play their offside in their own zone or on breakouts. Not every player can play their offside well like Ovechkin.

Well chiasson has enough trouble playing his strong side

 

[God Says No]

How about we answer the question i posed first ??Prince has a grand total of 3 goals ,two of which came in the same game .For an offensive player that has played in a sheltered bottom 6 role against other teams bottom 6 players .How come he still only has three goals ??

That question was already answered, by yourself. He's not really a sniper so his goal totals will not be high, he's a rookie and still adjusting to the league, and his actual point totals are not bad per the minutes he's playing.

Now answer my question. Which player do you keep and which player do you expose to waivers?

 

[Zorf]

Except that this has been completely disproven over the past few pages.

No it hasn't. The team scores when he's on the ice. This in no way details how much of an influence he has had in the team scoring.

For a guy with 3 goals and 9 assists, I don't think I would go so far as to say that he is an offensive catalyst in any sense of the word.

It's probably more likely that he's on the ice providing little in terms of value while Karlsson skates the puck up the ice and the team scores a goal. Oh, but that was all due to the dynamic offensive prowess that Prince brings...which none of us can see with our eyes while we watch the game...but a stat says it is there, so I guess we should play Price more than Turris.

 

[topshelf15]

You do realize that Dzingel officially is bigger by one inch and 5 pounds. Maybe that one inch is really important to you, but it doesn't matter to me.



As stated already, Prince can play RW as he's played mostly there in the AHL. And he might have to if/when MacArthur comes back.



He made the 4th line actually productive. That's an accomplishment not even Greening could do. What I've been impressed with is his puck retrieval. There were numerous times where he won the puck and hence the 4th line kept possession.



Nothing to do with advanced stats. He's in the press box because he's not DC's boy. There's something that rubs DC the wrong way about Prince. It was the same story with Hoffman. It's being repeated with Prince.

Can someone explain to me how Prince is a defensive liability? I just don't see it. If he's a defensive liability then Lazar, Neil and Chiasson are absolute pylons.

Doesnt win board battles ,loses his man .Isnt hard at all on the forcheck or backcheck ,just because he is viewed as an offensive guy doesnt excuse him from his duties .That everybody else has to do

 

[Micklebot]

How many where of those goals where in the top 6 and how many were in the sheltered bottom 6.Give me the QOC stats on those goals ,because if he has those types of numbers playing in the top 6 .He wouldnt be in the pressbox right now would he ??

So goals from the bottom 6 don't count as much as goals from the top 6?

I for one will take goals no matter where they come from.

For what it's worth,

Center|GF/60|TOI
Turris|1.71|70:02
Zibanejad|4.31|111:15
Not Turris/Zib|2.42|247:41

In a limited sample, his line struggled with Turris as the center, thrived with Zibanejad as the center, and were above average in the bottom 6 (away from Turris/Zib, it would rank 6th or 5th among forwards depending on if you include Michalek or not)

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Doesnt win board battles ,loses his man .Isnt hard at all on the forcheck or backcheck ,just because he is viewed as an offensive guy doesnt excuse him from his duties .That everybody else has to do

Prince has never mailed in a back check. The guy is never gliding around. Also. He's a rookie. You're right though. No selke for him this year.

 

[Zorf]

That question was already answered, by yourself. He's not really a sniper so his goal totals will not be high, he's a rookie and still adjusting to the league, and his actual point totals are not bad per the minutes he's playing.

Now answer my question. Which player do you keep and which player do you expose to waivers?

You expose Prince to waivers. It's no huge loss if he gets claimed, and if he clears, which he probably would, then he can develop some more in Bingo, playing very meaningful minutes, and come back a better player.

There is risk in losing him, but if that happens, it's not really a big deal because it's painfully obvious that he is easily replaced.

So assume some risk to make him a better player. I think that's better asset management than having him sit in a pressbox for the rest of the season.

 

[topshelf15]

That question was already answered, by yourself. He's not really a sniper so his goal totals will not be high, he's a rookie and still adjusting to the league, and his actual point totals are not bad per the minutes he's playing.

Now answer my question. Which player do you keep and which player do you expose to waivers?

He cant be a one dimensional player as he is now either,a pass happy player .That plays a soft all around permeter game is where he is at right now,and after playing 200+ ahl/nhl games you would think he would have figured out some of this stuff by now .But hasnt so he sits and will be replaced

 

[topshelf15]

Prince has never mailed in a back check. The guy is never gliding around. Also. He's a rookie. You're right though. No selke for him this year.

But he does the exact same thing on offense, skates fast accomplishes nothing

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He cant be a one dimensional player as he is now either,a pass happy player .That plays a soft all around permeter game is where he is at right now,and after playing 200+ ahl/nhl games you would think he would have figured out some of this stuff by now .But hasnt so he sits and will be replaced

Weren't 66% of goals scored this year (lol) scored by going to the net? Which he aparrently doesn't do. Cuz he's a soft perimeter player.