Speculation: 2015 - 2016 Roster Talk (Part IV): Darby Hendrickson Edition

[Jakey53]

Stone is 25, with 2.5 full NHL seasons under his belt. This year needs to be "in the lineup or Get The Eff Out" for him. No carousels.

There's no way that DM's plan was:
OEL - XXX
Grossman - Stone
Dahlbeck - Michalek
Gormley - Murphy
because that's insane. We can't afford that, and we can't afford to waste two good young players like Murphy and Gormley in order to play a more expensive vet.

If there's a way to package Stone or Murphy (and it should be Stone) and another piece to get a big-time first pairing D, cool, do it. Adding ANOTHER NHL defensive piece without moving at least one of Gormley, Murphy and Stone would be awful asset management. I don't want to rundblad (using that as a verb) Connor Murphy.

What are you talking about, Stone played 81 games last year. He is our most physical Dman, and can block shots. Why is everyone so anxious to trade Stone?

 

[Jakey53]

Honestly, given what's out there, I'm good with our RD situation. I'd love to add a young top pairing guy but it's not a need right now. Let Stone anchor that spot this year, and try again next year when we are closer to truly competing. We have to remember that we are likely 2-3 years out from not lucking into a playoff spot and actually earning it. No need to add a piece like Vat (though nice, I think he's not going to be a true top pairing guy). At this point, I'd wait to the TDL and move Boedker for a great d prospect and a pick. Maybe Gormley can establish some value and maybe help to get a top 6 RW. I'm not touching the roster until the TDL if I'm GMDM, let some kids in and see what happens.

I'm with you. Haste makes waste.

 

[Jakey53]

I'd rather not. Trading Stone or Murphy is counter productive. We need the RHD to be young enough for the long-term solution. We need Murphy and Stone to carousel in and out of the line-up for this year, until Michalek hops on the carousel next season, and one moves off into the permanent spot.

No, we need Stone and Murphy in the line up, period. I can see Murphy maybe sit a few, but not many.

 

[rt]

I also feel Stone is being undervalued, here. Same with Murphy. Why trade these guys for players who won't top out any better, but are a couple of years older and more expensive?

 

[Jakey53]

I would go *******, I love risto. It would probably cost a lot though.

They traded Zadorov, they are not going to trade Risto.

 

[rt]

No, we need Stone and Murphy in the line up, period. I can see Murphy maybe sit a few, but not many.

Well, luckily for Murphy we have Michalek who isn't likely to remain healthy for a full season.

We agree on this Jake. Neither one of us wants to go out and get "another" RHD. Only a significant upgrade on Stone/Murphy will be worth it. And even then, I don't want to give up either Stone or Murphy to get him. We need those two AND that upgrade on our blueline. It's Michalek who is jamming up the works.

 

[XX]

Stone has probably peaked. I don't see him as anything more than a decent 2nd pairing guy. Murphy has the skating to be more but he needs coaching for that.

All of the names mentioned are an upgrade on Stone. I'd happily throw him into any RHD deal.

 

[rt]

Stone has probably peaked. I don't see him as anything more than a decent 2nd pairing guy. Murphy has the skating to be more but he needs coaching for that.

All of the names mentioned are an upgrade on Stone. I'd happily throw him into any RHD deal.

That's something we'd regret as soon as Michalek is injured. Especially in the 2nd year of Michalek's deal when he is even further broken down.

 

[Jakey53]

I doubt Z ends up on our 1st pairing, it's more likely Stone or Murphy.

I think Z will be all over the line up this year, depending on games situations.

 

[Jakey53]

I also feel Stone is being undervalued, here. Same with Murphy. Why trade these guys for players who won't top out any better, but are a couple of years older and more expensive?

You got that right. Let's slow down on the trade talks, they are getting silly again.

 

[CC96]

Maloney said that he's interested in a experienced scoring winger, and a top right handed defenseman to play with OEL, but only if the price is reasonable.

He went on to say, that if he can't find a quality deal, he may just stand pat with the roster we have right now.

 

[Jakey53]

Stone has probably peaked. I don't see him as anything more than a decent 2nd pairing guy. Murphy has the skating to be more but he needs coaching for that.

All of the names mentioned are an upgrade on Stone. I'd happily throw him into any RHD deal.

I don't think Stone has peaked at all. I think this year he is going to be a physical force to be reckoned with. A 2nd pairing could be his upside, but a physical, shot blocking Dman are very valuable.

 

[cobra427]

You got that right. Let's slow down on the trade talks, they are getting silly again.

Perhaps, but DM has said several times that he is looking for a PMD. He can't be looking for a second or third pairing guy. I think we all agree to stand pat unless it is a sizable upgrade over stone and Murphy.

 

[jacobhockey13]

I think Stone is a bit overrated. He nothing more than a 6 or 7 defenseman to me. Too many giveaways/dumb plays with not a lot of elite skill to counter it. Two years ago he scored a lot but to me it was just a lot of puck luck deviating from the mean. I'd love to be wrong, but I think he has topped out.

Murphy on the other hand, I love. So much room to grow (literally and figuratively) and he looks like he can be a solid 2 or 3.

 

[zerekstar]

I don't think Stone has peaked at all. I think this year he is going to be a physical force to be reckoned with. A 2nd pairing could be his upside, but a physical, shot blocking Dman are very valuable.

I agree. Stone has improved each season. But I like him as a second pairing guy and not a partner for OEL. However, if that's how it works out, that's ok too.

 

[Jakey53]

That's something we'd regret as soon as Michalek is injured. Especially in the 2nd year of Michalek's deal when he is even further broken down.

Last year Z was broken down and slow. You may as well pencil him in as our eighth Dman because he will miss a good amount of time anyway. I think Stone and Murphy are more valuable to this team than most realize, especially with Gormley having not proven squat.

 

[Jakey53]

Perhaps, but DM has said several times that he is looking for a PMD. He can't be looking for a second or third pairing guy. I think we all agree to stand pat unless it is a sizable upgrade over stone and Murphy.

He also said he wanted a #1C for the last two years. Wanting one is one thing, but finding one is quite another. I don't see anything wrong with a second pairing PMD at all, I just think we should wait and see if Murphy and Stone can take another step first.

 

[DesertDawg]

WANT a Oliver-Ekman-Adam-Larrson pairing.

In that situation I believe moving Stone would be worthwhile. Again it has to be a clear upgrade that is also around the same age of Murphy or Stone. NJ needs wingers. I think Boeds and Stone could get it done, maybe add a 2nd.

Edit: I think very highly of Wideman and would love to add. But the age aspect hurts with him. The whole signing Z before figuring out your top RHD situation was very dumb.

I would love a Larsson and Larsson pairing also, but no way I would pay that much. The most would be a Boedker for Larsson trade, which I see as fair. I also think Wideman would fit in on a 2nd pairing (5x5) and top PP. It seems Maloney makes an impulse signing every year.

Maloney said that he's interested in a experienced scoring winger, and a top right handed defenseman to play with OEL, but only if the price is reasonable.

He went on to say, that if he can't find a quality deal, he may just stand pat with the roster we have right now.

IMO, that's the short answer. He never really elaborates.

 

[Jakey53]

Well, luckily for Murphy we have Michalek who isn't likely to remain healthy for a full season.

We agree on this Jake. Neither one of us wants to go out and get "another" RHD. Only a significant upgrade on Stone/Murphy will be worth it. And even then, I don't want to give up either Stone or Murphy to get him. We need those two AND that upgrade on our blueline. It's Michalek who is jamming up the works.

Yeah, Michalek.

 

[RemoAZ]

The Z signing and Grossman pickup were classic Tippett. Play old, slow vets over talented youth every time. This killed us last season and will do the same this year. Why not take the $7 mill you are paying those two and pay a star? Package the youth you don't want to play along with picks you will never give a shot to for a really good player. This half way **** drives me crazy. Either move the kids for guys that can actually help us become a contender or play them. Holding them down while playing some of these average at best guys top line minutes does nothing for us now or in the future.

The worst part is Stone, Murphy and Gormley look like they are improving. If they bring in another vet D, which I fully expect they will, two of those three become the 7th and 8th guys. That's just stupid when Grossman and Z are getting minutes ahead of them. How does that help you become a cup contender now or in the future?

 

[ck26]

What are you talking about, Stone played 81 games last year. He is our most physical Dman, and can block shots. Why is everyone so anxious to trade Stone?

I'm not, I think Stone is better ... if an expensive team is looking to shed a high-end, expensive, veteran defenseman, I think Stone is the return they want (passable top 4 guy) as opposed to Murphy, who is still a few years away from that. Maybe. Stone + Boedker + something type package.

But fundamentally I'm speculating about what an unspecified team might want in return for an unspecified defenseman, soooo ... yeah.

 

[rt]

The Z signing and Grossman pickup were classic Tippett. Play old, slow vets over talented youth every time. This killed us last season and will do the same this year. Why not take the $7 mill you are paying those two and pay a star? Package the youth you don't want to play along with picks you will never give a shot to for a really good player. This half way **** drives me crazy. Either move the kids for guys that can actually help us become a contender or play them. Holding them down while playing some of these average at best guys top line minutes does nothing for us now or in the future.

The worst part is Stone, Murphy and Gormley look like they are improving. If they bring in another vet D, which I fully expect they will, two of those three become the 7th and 8th guys. That's just stupid when Grossman and Z are getting minutes ahead of them. How does that help you become a cup contender now or in the future?

Grossmann is on a one year so I'm okay there. Our D was way too green last season. It hurt us a lot. Too green and too light in the ass. We needed heavy, cagey, veteran blueliners. I'm cool with Grossmann because he's got just one year left. I would be cool with Michalek, too, if he had just one year. Even so, he will miss time in each of the next two seasons. He'll cycle in and out of the line up. It's not the worst thing.

We were carried to the WCF much on the backs of Aucoin, Morris, Roszival, and Klesla.

 

[XX]

We were carried to the WCF much on the backs of Aucoin, Morris, Roszival, and Klesla.

Good players that still had gas left in the tank. Grossmann hasn't been good in awhile, and the Coyotes can't shelter him to maximize his role. Z is slowing down rapidly, and is as soft as they come.

 

[cobra427]

Good players that still had gas left in the tank. Grossmann hasn't been good in awhile, and the Coyotes can't shelter him to maximize his role. Z is slowing down rapidly, and is as soft as they come.

AA was past his prime, Klesla was a throw away in a trade as I recall, Rozy was a middling D, Dmo was considered above average. Going into the year, we weren't considered top 10 on D.

Grossman/Z could represent 2 of those guys. With OEL/Z/Grossman, we know what we will get out of them. We don't know what we will get out of Murphy/Stone but they could both help us a lot if they improve. I can see Tip/DM wanting half the D core to be guys they can count on and know what they are getting.

 

[Mosby]

I like Michael Stone. I think he saw significant growth last season. Two years ago, I was frustrated with his play because he had a tendency to take a lot of stupid stick penalties – obstruction and such. He’s learned to play smarter. But how much growth is left? He’s already a Top 4 guy, but I don’t think he has the hockey IQ to become a top-pairing guy.

Both Stone and Murphy are RFAs next year. I wonder who the organization values more? Offensive games are pretty equal. Both physical, Stone a little more, but Murphy plays a little smarter. Arguably equal defensively. I’d pick Murphy over Stone, but it’s extremely close. Also like the idea of pairing Murphy with Grossmann. Nice sense of balance there.

I like Larsson from NJ, but the Devils are still below the cap floor, so unless his arbitration demands are completely absurd, there is no reason for the Devils to move him (besides, we don’t want him if his salary is through the roof). It’ll be interesting to see what the Devils do. The new GM, Shero, hasn’t really done anything yet from what I recall. Kyle Palmieri and John Moore isn’t much of an off-season for your first year on the job. New Jersey actually makes an interesting trade partner as they have one of the worst prospect pools in the league, especially at forward, where we’re fairly stocked. Alas, I don’t see Larsson being available, so we’d have to look elsewhere for that top-pairing RHD.

Re: Michalek. The key will be reduced minutes. Hopefully third-pairing minutes closer to 15 than low 20s will mitigate injury risk.