Speculation: 2015 - 2016 New York Rangers Roster Building Thread Part XVIII Mod Warning Post #1

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Bleed Ranger Blue

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Jul 18, 2006
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You wouldn't argue that an emergence of Skjei would allow Staal to be traded?

You mean the kid with 23 AHL games under his belt? Lets cross that bridge if/when we get there.

That said, I think Skjei's eventual emergence has just as much to do with paying Yandle potentially $6.5-7M yearly as it does with potentially trading Staal. The notion that Yandle is definitely going to get signed is anything for a foregone conclusion.
 

BarbaraAlphanse

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You mean the kid with 23 AHL games under his belt? Lets cross that bridge if/when we get there.

That said, I think Skjei's eventual emergence has just as much to do with paying Yandle potentially $6.5-7M yearly as it does with potentially trading Staal. The notion that Yandle is definitely going to get signed is anything for a foregone conclusion.

Yes. The question was posed as a hypothetical rather than something I am taking for granted.

As for Yandle/Staal debate, who makes more sense to keep? Someone who fits this system and offers something that no one else on the roster can, or someone who struggles to fit the system and offers something 3 other players can do: Girardi, Klein, McDonagh.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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I would take one cup and go through a rebuild than be a perpetual contender who just quite doesn't have enough to do it. ....
Agree I would rather that too.
However, that is not the given.

The ? is if say Yandle is put on the market and returns substantial assets do those assets help ENOUGH for that year he is dealt AS WELL AS IN ADDITION TO THE SUCCEEDING YEARS?

If they don't we should keep Yandle, and not let him go for less.
But if they do, esp since there is cap, and Skjei to fit in, it makes sense to move him, 'cause our chances are just as good in the short term and better after that.

I don't see Staal losing all that many minutes. I expect he'll come in around 20 minutes next year. Barring injury to Staal--Skjei is not going to come out of his first training camp replacing Marc in the lineup. Not going to happen unless Staal gets hurts.
I see Skjei forcing the issue, but I don't think he stays until something breaks with either Staal or Yandle or both and there is space for him. Cup of coffee? Sure. But they will also want him to get enough minutes I agree.

But my gut says when they do call, he'll be ready to come up and stay.

Your geography is a bit off. People think just because someone is born and raised in Ontario that they have to be close to Toronto, Ottawa or Buffalo--by far the closest NHL destinations to Staal's hometown Thunder Bay Ontario would be Minneapolis and Winnipeg. Ontario is a huge ****ing province and if you come from Windsor (a pretty big Canadian city) for instance all you have to do is cross a bridge and you're in Detroit.
Thank you, I stand corrected.
So the Sens could be in the picture, but really if he is pulling to 'go home' as Tracy Ulman would say, then its Minny and Winni!
Will try to remember that!
 

haveandare

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Jul 2, 2009
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You do realize that this snide back and forth started because the poster you quoted came along and said "LOL this defense isn't overrated, move along" right?

Yes. I've posted snarky argumentative stuff too. The issue is that the primary tone of an awful lot of days, threads, arguments, posters etc. are like that. People getting frustrated sometimes is fine and normal, but it's unfortunate when you find that there are huge chunks of the forum that have become primarily unhelpful and hostile.

My thoughts on the defense aren't necessarily at either end of the spectrum. I think they're good, but not top tier. Maybe in the bottom half of the top ten in the league. They have solid depth, they have no guys that are uncomfortable playing NHL D by any means. The main issue is that Girardi or Staal should be the shutdown half of a middle pair, neither should be top or bottom pair ideally. Because there are two of them there's a redundancy in that single position and really a void in the top right position that Girardi is doing his best to fill, but simply isn't cut out to do well. To become a top, top defense, they need to rid themselves of one of those players IMO, preferably in a trade for a player with more of a two way game, even if that means being less of a PK staple or being a slightly worse in zone defender. They need someone who can, at the very least, not hold McD back at all. From there, they can tinker with what they have in the NHL now, what they could hopefully get in return for Staal or G, and with prospects knocking on the door and make a really top defense.
 

eco's bones

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Jul 21, 2005
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Agree I would rather that too.
However, that is not the given.

The ? is if say Yandle is put on the market and returns substantial assets do those assets help ENOUGH for that year he is dealt AS WELL AS IN ADDITION TO THE SUCCEEDING YEARS?

If they don't we should keep Yandle, and not let him go for less.
But if they do, esp since there is cap, and Skjei to fit in, it makes sense to move him, 'cause our chances are just as good in the short term and better after that.



I see Skjei forcing the issue, but I don't think he stays until something breaks with either Staal or Yandle or both and there is space for him. Cup of coffee? Sure. But they will also want him to get enough minutes I agree.

But my gut says when they do call, he'll be ready to come up and stay.


Thank you, I stand corrected.
So the Sens could be in the picture, but really if he is pulling to 'go home' as Tracy Ulman would say, then its Minny and Winni!
Will try to remember that!

One of the reasons I know Bern is a couple years ago we had to take our daughter out to Minneapolis--she had to take a summer course at Minnesota U. to finish her geology degree. My wife and I actually thought about going all the way up to Thunder Bay on the way back. It's in a really unique location. The thing is we wanted to get back home in 2--or 3 three days at the most and we would have been driving forever. I was looking at that and my wife was already to go--and I had to say hey I don't think it's a good idea.

Here are the road miles from Thunder Bay to the nearest NHL cities.

1. Minneapolis--343
2. Winnipeg--439
3. Chicago--656
4. Detroit--782
5. Toronto--867
6. Buffalo--946

To me it's worth looking at on a map. As I said it's a unique location. Anyway we decided not to do that. We caught a ferry instead in Milwaukee that took us across Lake Michigan.
 

Bleed Ranger Blue

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Jul 18, 2006
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Yes. The question was posed as a hypothetical rather than something I am taking for granted.

As for Yandle/Staal debate, who makes more sense to keep? Someone who fits this system and offers something that no one else on the roster can, or someone who struggles to fit the system and offers something 3 other players can do: Girardi, Klein, McDonagh.

Depends on Yandle's price. What if hes looking for $7M+? Because if thats the case, especially if he hasn't shown improvement in his own end, I'd take Staal.
 

RGY

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Jul 18, 2005
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Yes. I've posted snarky argumentative stuff too. The issue is that the primary tone of an awful lot of days, threads, arguments, posters etc. are like that. People getting frustrated sometimes is fine and normal, but it's unfortunate when you find that there are huge chunks of the forum that have become primarily unhelpful and hostile.

My thoughts on the defense aren't necessarily at either end of the spectrum. I think they're good, but not top tier. Maybe in the bottom half of the top ten in the league. They have solid depth, they have no guys that are uncomfortable playing NHL D by any means. The main issue is that Girardi or Staal should be the shutdown half of a middle pair, neither should be top or bottom pair ideally. Because there are two of them there's a redundancy in that single position and really a void in the top right position that Girardi is doing his best to fill, but simply isn't cut out to do well. To become a top, top defense, they need to rid themselves of one of those players IMO, preferably in a trade for a player with more of a two way game, even if that means being less of a PK staple or being a slightly worse in zone defender. They need someone who can, at the very least, not hold McD back at all. From there, they can tinker with what they have in the NHL now, what they could hopefully get in return for Staal or G, and with prospects knocking on the door and make a really top defense.
Thank you. My sentiments exactly. Imo an ideal world Girardi is a top 4 defenseman not logging the heavy minutes he has been. But this isnt an ideal world. You can make whatever arguments you like about G but the Rangers chose to re-sign him. They felt at the time he was an important piece of the defense. Contrary they felt Callahan was asking for too much for a guy who has had his fair share of injuries because of the game he plays with the average production he provides at RW. The point is they were able to replace Callahan in a trade with Marty. I dont know what you get for Girardi. Not to mention he had played with Mac so much at top pair minutes that you simply cannot assume whoever your brought in would develop the same chemistry that late in the season while being expected to play those minutes. There were no prospects in the system ready to be promoted. Staal had been so banged up the year before they probably didnt want to bump him up either. I know everyone will say Stralman but the Rangers leadership whether it be AV or whoever did not see him in that role. They made a choice. They chose to pay G and from there went on an SCF run. Next year they go to game 7 of the ECF. Again G has flaws. He absolutely does. He is better suited for the second pair. But the tone that people take page after page just demolishes the guy. He doesnt miss games which is incredible for the game he plays. He plays tough. He is extremely well liked in that lockerroom. Does he completely shutdown Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin? No but who does? I certainly dont see him being overwhelmed out there not after several years against them. Yes its a "roster building" thread but for the start of the 15-16 season the roster is pretty set with the exception of a camp invite and a guy like Lindberg looking to make the jump. Maybe at some point Skjei pushes for a spot. Maybe they move Klein. Maybe they can somehow mover Boyle instead. Maybe they move G or Staal but with the current structure of their contracts it doesnt seem likely given NMCs. So where do we stand? Do we continue to talk in circles about the same topic over and over again. Or do we move on and talk about something else. Finally put the other one to rest or at least on hold until we hear something from a rangers source or another media source claiming the rangers might move G/Staal/Klein/etc? I think its more productive to talk about camp. Its roughly a month away.
 

Mac n Gs

Gorton plz
Jan 17, 2014
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What do people think a fair AAV for Yandle would be on his next contract? I'm pretty sure he's at $5.625M now (I know 50% is being retained by the Yotes), but how much more will he want? I'd be ok giving him in the high $6M-low $7M range. I guess it all depends on Skjei proving his worth and showing that he'd be capable of handling 3rd pairing NHL minutes at some point around midseason.
 

Doctyl

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Jan 25, 2011
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What do people think a fair AAV for Yandle would be on his next contract? I'm pretty sure he's at $5.625M now (I know 50% is being retained by the Yotes), but how much more will he want? I'd be ok giving him in the high $6M-low $7M range. I guess it all depends on Skjei proving his worth and showing that he'd be capable of handling 3rd pairing NHL minutes at some point around midseason.

Fair? Probably around $7M. Very few dmen in the league have the offensive ability he does.
 

RGY

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Hopefully 6.25-6.5. Still a good raise for him at his age. Will be his last big contract but maybe he doesnt demand as much as everyone thinks he will because he is comfortable with his situation here. Only other place I think he'd want to play is Boston. But given their current state he may want to stick with this organization and continue to compete during the prime years he has left
 

Ola

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Apr 10, 2004
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Forget about re-signing Yandle if his role is playing him in sheltered situations and on the PP. The trade is over and done with. Ride him and let him leave as a free agent. The Rangers have Skjei at $925,000 to be their 3rd pair D. Yandle has a $5.75M salary for this season. $5.25M cap hit. Skjei will not need much time in the AHL before he is ready NHL. He has already played two months of pro hockey. Those are two more months than McDonagh played when he turned pro in 2010.

When does Staal's NMC turn into a limited NTC? Could be an option to move him down the road. I hear you on Skjei, but at the same time, McD wasn't ready to play D for a contender his rookie year. We weren't good and McD scrambled to get by.
 

hi

Sell sell sell
May 23, 2008
7,416
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Girardi at $5,500,000 (20 points)

Yes please

Staal at $5,700,000 (20 points)

Yes please


Yandle at $7,000,000+ (45+ points)

Hell no

HFNYR in a nutshell
 

Tawnos

A guy with a bass
Sep 10, 2004
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Since this is a roster building thread, I'd pose this: in a salary cap world, something is always going to be sacrificed. If you believe the Rangers D is 6-10, and accounting for the goaltender we have, is it really practical to have a top-5 D? Keep in mind that such an improvement at D, at the age ours is, will be more expensive.

The best approach, to me, is to maintain a balance between investment in the forwards and investment in the defense. If you spend more on D, you lose something up front. In a way, that's what we are seeing right now, with Klein remaining a Ranger and Hagelin being shipped out.

Personally, I consider the Rangers D to be in the conversation for top 5 Ds. That isn't so much of a reflection of how I feel about the Rangers as not really seeing 5 groups that are better 1-6.

The point is that this is a continuous balancing act that's been going on for 10 years. The more money Hank makes, the more challenging the balancing act. It's worth the challenge, IMO, but the fact remains that decisions have to be made.
 

Charlie Conway

Oxford Comma
Nov 2, 2013
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When does Staal's NMC turn into a limited NTC? Could be an option to move him down the road. I hear you on Skjei, but at the same time, McD wasn't ready to play D for a contender his rookie year. We weren't good and McD scrambled to get by.

Roughly July 1, 2018, I think. First 3 years (15-16, 16-17, 17-18) are NMC. The last 3 years are modified NTC.

It's a good problem to have if McI and Skjei both do well. We'll need a replacement for Boyle next year, and while it's possible Klein can take his minutes, we would still want a PMD for the right side and the PP. McI won't be that guy, so things will get interesting...might require some creative moves next off-season.
 

Charlie Conway

Oxford Comma
Nov 2, 2013
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Since this is a roster building thread, I'd pose this: in a salary cap world, something is always going to be sacrificed. If you believe the Rangers D is 6-10, and accounting for the goaltender we have, is it really practical to have a top-5 D? Keep in mind that such an improvement at D, at the age ours is, will be more expensive.

The best approach, to me, is to maintain a balance between investment in the forwards and investment in the defense. If you spend more on D, you lose something up front. In a way, that's what we are seeing right now, with Klein remaining a Ranger and Hagelin being shipped out.

Personally, I consider the Rangers D to be in the conversation for top 5 Ds. That isn't so much of a reflection of how I feel about the Rangers as not really seeing 5 groups that are better 1-6.

The point is that this is a continuous balancing act that's been going on for 10 years. The more money Hank makes, the more challenging the balancing act. It's worth the challenge, IMO, but the fact remains that decisions have to be made.

I'm trying to think of 5 better D-groups. I would say Nashville is up there. Chicago would be, but their 4-6 slots are lacking. Calgary has built a solid group. Sharks have a pretty good group.

A lot of teams have great top 4 groups, but they end up lacking in the 5 and 6 slots. They might spend less on goaltending ,but they have far more invested in their forwards.


Anyway, I agree with the overall point. If you rely too much on your forward group, you end up in a Chicago situation where your defense is slowly moved bit by bit. If you focus too much on the defense, you need some work up front.
 

Machinehead

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Jan 21, 2011
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I've been watching a lot of last years games lately. And when we got Yandle our D looks great. I just don't understand the constant bashing of our D. Do people on this board have Alzheimers or something?

The Tampa series wasn't that long ago.

And before I hear "BUT WE GOT SHUTOUT TWEISSS," defense corps contribute greatly to offense.

The term "defenseman" is a load of ****.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
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Yeah what about the series before that one? Our D got hurt end of story.

I thought they were good against the Caps in the first 5 games except against Ovechkin who is unstoppable. The Caps would have been out early if not for Holtby putting up a .970.

Tampa was a disaster, but of course there were injuries. I just think offense from our top 4 is major issue and will continue to be if Yandle doesn't get minutes.

Also I'm sorry to those posters who want all of our defenseman playing like Karlsson. But that's not how it works. This isn't NHL15 GM mode.

Not all of them, but having two guys in our top 4 that are infants with the puck is hurting us. Yandle could fix this. By being in our top 4.
 

Tawnos

A guy with a bass
Sep 10, 2004
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The Tampa series wasn't that long ago.

And before I hear "BUT WE GOT SHUTOUT TWEISSS," defense corps contribute greatly to offense.

The term "defenseman" is a load of ****.

I pretty much think the Tampa series is very typical with what happens with this Rangers defense. They play a few games against a high-powered offense and get run over. As time goes on, they learn, adapt and figure out how to deal with it. Game 1 is rarely representative of a series. The Bolts scored 12 goals in games 2 and 3. The Rangers had a GAA of 2.00 in the final 4 games of the series.

I remember a time when Crosby and Ovechkin gave the Rangers fits.

I agree that the D needs to contribute to the offense. Is it any shock that the Rangers got shut out in 2 of 3 games where their D corps was crippled? I do think Yandle needs a bigger role this year. I'd like to see the Rangers with a definitive 1st pair and then a 2A/2B situation for the next 4.
 
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I thought they were good against the Caps in the first 5 games except against Ovechkin who is unstoppable. The Caps would have been out early if not for Holtby putting up a .970.

Tampa was a disaster, but of course there were injuries. I just think offense from our top 4 is major issue and will continue to be if Yandle doesn't get minutes.



Not all of them, but having two guys in our top 4 that are infants with the puck is hurting us. Yandle could fix this. By being in our top 4.

I agree to a extent. Which is why I'm fine with trading Girardi. But we need to keep Staal if we do trade Girardi. Staal is the better player and younger.

Is Mcl a lefty? Move G bump up boyle and Yandle and put Mcl or skjei with Klein.
McD-Boyle
Staal-Yandle
Mcl/Skjei-Klein
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
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I agree to a extent. Which is why I'm fine with trading Girardi. But we need to keep Staal if we do trade Girardi. Staal is the better player and younger.

Is Mcl a lefty? Move G bump up boyle and Yandle and put Mcl or skjei with Klein.
McD-Boyle
Staal-Yandle
Mcl/Skjei-Klein

I'm fully behind this lineup
 
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