2015-16 Schedule Released

[Theoriginalalex]

Question: Would most of you still be hating against the Pacific teams if they were playing the same amount of games as the rest of the league? I have to agree that playing a different amount of games is ridiculous, but I have the feeling that the hate (or whatever you want to call it) would be there regardless. And at that point, it would just be whining about travel.

I would have no problem with them if they played 76. Owners have the right to move their teams wherever they want (ok, there is the Norfolk issue), and I think being a true coast-to-coast league is a good thing.

 

[axecrew]

Question: Would most of you still be hating against the Pacific teams if they were playing the same amount of games as the rest of the league? I have to agree that playing a different amount of games is ridiculous, but I have the feeling that the hate (or whatever you want to call it) would be there regardless. And at that point, it would just be whining about travel.

I'm not sure there's a great deal of "hate" towards those teams as much as it's toward the whole hostage taking concerning the amount of games and the league's bowing down to them. I personally would've liked to see them make a go of it by themselves and see just how far they got with a 5 team "league" and unsanctioned officials...maybe their perspective would've been a little more clear after that happened.

My disgust is with the AHL in general and it's inability to create what I would say was an equal footprint for all teams and not just it's chosen few.
It touts itself as the top developmental league for the NHL but yet it seldom if ever replicates the NHL. There are no 2 hours bus rides in the middle of the night in the NHL where you are home in bed by 1 am...but yet the majority of the teams in the east this is exactly what their schedule is like every year. Development of a hockey player is not just a physical on the ice transformation and enhancement of their skills, but it is also a mental adjustment to being in the NHL. Let's face it....if you have the physical tools to you will play in the NHL, but how many times have you seen a seemingly NHL talented player bust out and fail due to a lack of maturity at the NHL level? Why is that?
I understand the need for owners in the AHL to keep expenses in line and the desire to "make money" but at what cost to the players mental development? How do you expect a young player to be able to adjust and flourish in a situation if they never have a chance to experience it as they develop? How often has a team on the west coast had to fly out after a game to a city in the central for a game the next night? The only way to be prepared for something like that is thru experience and you can't get that experience sitting on a bus for a couple of hours and then going to bed next to your wife or girlfriend.
Nobody says the AHL should replicate the NHL schedule where you see everyone in at least a 1/1 setting, but there is a way to do it similar to what the NFL does with it's schedule and if you take 1 home and 1 away game away from your division teams you can make it work just fine...so you see your division team 5 home and 5 away instead of 6 each...big deal. And I really think the owners looking to "make money" would be surprised at the attendance figure for a team they never play.
I realize the average fan could care less if the game they are going to is the 6th time Providence has played Syracuse at home this year...but for the core fans it does matter as evident by a lot of the comments on here....and these owners need to remember that the average fan is not guaranteed, they may only come to 1 game a year...it's your core fans...the season ticketholders that are guaranteed revenue. So why would you alienate them???

 

[tigervixxxen]

The casual fan should care if a team is playing an inordinate amount of games vs any one team. Maybe THEY don't see that other team 10x but the team they cheer for does and it effects quality of play.

Who really gets screwed are the Texas teams. They have to play in a division with the California teams so they can't "take a stand" and refuse to play them but they have to air travel to every single other opponent outside of eachother. The east teams complain about going west and vice versa but how about the teams that have to travel both directions? Oh and on top of that they have to compete in a division with the rested California teams who even have to have playoffs determined by points percentage (if you want to play fewer games fine but at least be willing to give up possible points but no...) AND on top of that can have a 4th playoff spot in their division taken away if one of the Central division teams ends up with more points because they are in an "advantaged" division because they only have 7 teams in their division. I already know it's an extreme uphill battle to make the playoffs. So I'd rather say screw competition and just scrimmage like the California teams want to apparently do.

 

[Hurricane Ron]

A number of issues are at play in this schedule, not the least of which is that 5 teams play 68 games, 25 play 76. As was pointed out, a 76 game "balanced" schedule for the West isn't impossible, and would appear to be fairly easy to do.

Years ago, before leagues expanded beyond the same time zone, schedules were balanced, with perhaps more games for the closest team geographically, but typically not more than 6 games a year, than were played against the rest of the teams in the league.

Not sure why GMs/owners don't insist on some sort of similar scheduling, at least for teams within a division/conference, to insure that the "best" teams qualify for the playoffs.

Schedules like this make me long for the days when the AHL, CHL and WHL operated as the "next level" below the NHL ... and there weren't complaints about travel, schedules, etc. It was the same for everyone in each league!

But yes, I realize its 2015 and not 1970.

 

[axecrew]

A number of issues are at play in this schedule, not the least of which is that 5 teams play 68 games, 25 play 76. As was pointed out, a 76 game "balanced" schedule for the West isn't impossible, and would appear to be fairly easy to do.

Years ago, before leagues expanded beyond the same time zone, schedules were balanced, with perhaps more games for the closest team geographically, but typically not more than 6 games a year, than were played against the rest of the teams in the league.

Not sure why GMs/owners don't insist on some sort of similar scheduling, at least for teams within a division/conference, to insure that the "best" teams qualify for the playoffs.

Schedules like this make me long for the days when the AHL, CHL and WHL operated as the "next level" below the NHL ... and there weren't complaints about travel, schedules, etc. It was the same for everyone in each league!

But yes, I realize its 2015 and not 1970.

Because they don't care about the best teams making the playoffs anymore...it's all about money.....both making it and saving it.

 

[Nightsquad]

Question: Would most of you still be hating against the Pacific teams if they were playing the same amount of games as the rest of the league? I have to agree that playing a different amount of games is ridiculous, but I have the feeling that the hate (or whatever you want to call it) would be there regardless. And at that point, it would just be whining about travel.

Not at all, I think the Pacific Division is a very good thing for the western based NHL clubs. I am quite suprised it didnt happen a few years or two sooner. For anyone to direct anger towards the western movement of the AHL is petty and ignorant. While I understand the anger from Manchester, Worcester, Norfolk, and Adirondack die hards in the grand scheme of things its a win for the NHL teams and reinforces the AHL's position as that of the league responsible for development of NHL talent.

At the end of the day the AHL, through no fault of Dave Andrews had to make a very tough choice. That tough choice sacrficied a few fans only. Manchester was no Hershey, it really is not a make or break city for the league. Adirondack while historic for sure is very limited in fan capacity, future growth, and really is stuck in the same general market as the Albany NY area and has nearby competition from college hockey teams as well. This move again brings the AHL development product out of aging rust belt small cities in the northeast and establishes the product in major cities on a national stage and nearby their respective NHL clubs.

Now, this is not to say I like how things were done entirely. I do not like the schedule aspect for these teams. I think thats where my point of discontent is. I think its an entire sham these teams play less games and have a lighter travel schedule. They should be on par with the eastern based teams in terms of learning a demanding schedule, the rigors of travel, time and body management etc. Those are the hallmarks of what always made the AHL a tough league for players on their way up. The league should have met both sides halfway instead of allowing one division to play a less number of games, that looks bush league and it gives an appearance of an unfair advantage. I always thought 80 games a regular season was a little too much anyway but both sides could have compromised, I would personally have been okay with a 70 game regular season schedule for a 35 game home and away each. Love the game, enjoy minor league hockey but I wouldnt mind at all seeing the playoffs start in April and crowning a champ no later then May. The AHL product is very good hockey but most AHL cities have to compete with other college sports, baseball teams, etc. although attendance really does not mean much for the AHL as it once did, its all about the mission of development. I would have preferred the league as whole played even a few less games but just as long as every team stuck to the same schedule standard, that is what I dont like.

As for the fans in Adirondack, Worcester, Norfolk, and Manchester. Should be interesting to see how things pan out. I think Norfolk will be okay. They are no stranger to ECHL hockey and supported that product well before. If rumors of Richmond landing a team are true it wont be long before fans settle right back into the ECHL brand as if the AHL was never there. Adirondack die hards have a tough choice lol. They protest, dont support, or instead throw their support towards the local college hockey or travel to Albany (Adirondack fans barely made the less then hour drive to Albany as Albany fans always travelled north from what I hear) then that would only hurt attendance in the Glens Falls arena which many up that way want sold or torn down. Worcester, well right now sadly out of luck but should a Bruins ECHL team ever get there they probably will be fine. Manchester lol, I just dont know. Good fans there yes, they know their hockey but their bitterness might be their downfall. Its a tough pill for the fans to swallow, I get it. At the end of the day though The Kings had to do whats right and in the end they did the best they could without totally screwing over the Manchester fans. other NHL organizations wouldnt have shown the Manchester base the same mutual respect, the Devils organization under Lou L wouldnt have lol....

 

[Avsrule2022]

Not at all, I think the Pacific Division is a very good thing for the western based NHL clubs. I am quite suprised it didnt happen a few years or two sooner. For anyone to direct anger towards the western movement of the AHL is petty and ignorant. While I understand the anger from Manchester, Worcester, Norfolk, and Adirondack die hards in the grand scheme of things its a win for the NHL teams and reinforces the AHL's position as that of the league responsible for development of NHL talent.

At the end of the day the AHL, through no fault of Dave Andrews had to make a very tough choice. That tough choice sacrficied a few fans only. Manchester was no Hershey, it really is not a make or break city for the league. Adirondack while historic for sure is very limited in fan capacity, future growth, and really is stuck in the same general market as the Albany NY area and has nearby competition from college hockey teams as well. This move again brings the AHL development product out of aging rust belt small cities in the northeast and establishes the product in major cities on a national stage and nearby their respective NHL clubs.

Now, this is not to say I like how things were done entirely. I do not like the schedule aspect for these teams. I think thats where my point of discontent is. I think its an entire sham these teams play less games and have a lighter travel schedule. They should be on par with the eastern based teams in terms of learning a demanding schedule, the rigors of travel, time and body management etc. Those are the hallmarks of what always made the AHL a tough league for players on their way up. The league should have met both sides halfway instead of allowing one division to play a less number of games, that looks bush league and it gives an appearance of an unfair advantage. I always thought 80 games a regular season was a little too much anyway but both sides could have compromised, I would personally have been okay with a 70 game regular season schedule for a 35 game home and away each. Love the game, enjoy minor league hockey but I wouldnt mind at all seeing the playoffs start in April and crowning a champ no later then May. The AHL product is very good hockey but most AHL cities have to compete with other college sports, baseball teams, etc. although attendance really does not mean much for the AHL as it once did, its all about the mission of development. I would have preferred the league as whole played even a few less games but just as long as every team stuck to the same schedule standard, that is what I dont like.

As for the fans in Adirondack, Worcester, Norfolk, and Manchester. Should be interesting to see how things pan out. I think Norfolk will be okay. They are no stranger to ECHL hockey and supported that product well before. If rumors of Richmond landing a team are true it wont be long before fans settle right back into the ECHL brand as if the AHL was never there. Adirondack die hards have a tough choice lol. They protest, dont support, or instead throw their support towards the local college hockey or travel to Albany (Adirondack fans barely made the less then hour drive to Albany as Albany fans always travelled north from what I hear) then that would only hurt attendance in the Glens Falls arena which many up that way want sold or torn down. Worcester, well right now sadly out of luck but should a Bruins ECHL team ever get there they probably will be fine. Manchester lol, I just dont know. Good fans there yes, they know their hockey but their bitterness might be their downfall. Its a tough pill for the fans to swallow, I get it. At the end of the day though The Kings had to do whats right and in the end they did the best they could without totally screwing over the Manchester fans. other NHL organizations wouldnt have shown the Manchester base the same mutual respect, the Devils organization under Lou L wouldnt have lol....

Well put. And I have to say that the 64 game CHL schedule back in the day was perfect. Long enough to weed out the chaff, and short enough to keep fan's attention.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I'm not sure there's a great deal of "hate" towards those teams as much as it's toward the whole hostage taking concerning the amount of games and the league's bowing down to them. I personally would've liked to see them make a go of it by themselves and see just how far they got with a 5 team "league" and unsanctioned officials...maybe their perspective would've been a little more clear after that happened.

My disgust is with the AHL in general and it's inability to create what I would say was an equal footprint for all teams and not just it's chosen few.
It touts itself as the top developmental league for the NHL but yet it seldom if ever replicates the NHL. There are no 2 hours bus rides in the middle of the night in the NHL where you are home in bed by 1 am...but yet the majority of the teams in the east this is exactly what their schedule is like every year. Development of a hockey player is not just a physical on the ice transformation and enhancement of their skills, but it is also a mental adjustment to being in the NHL. Let's face it....if you have the physical tools to you will play in the NHL, but how many times have you seen a seemingly NHL talented player bust out and fail due to a lack of maturity at the NHL level? Why is that?
I understand the need for owners in the AHL to keep expenses in line and the desire to "make money" but at what cost to the players mental development? How do you expect a young player to be able to adjust and flourish in a situation if they never have a chance to experience it as they develop? How often has a team on the west coast had to fly out after a game to a city in the central for a game the next night? The only way to be prepared for something like that is thru experience and you can't get that experience sitting on a bus for a couple of hours and then going to bed next to your wife or girlfriend.
Nobody says the AHL should replicate the NHL schedule where you see everyone in at least a 1/1 setting, but there is a way to do it similar to what the NFL does with it's schedule and if you take 1 home and 1 away game away from your division teams you can make it work just fine...so you see your division team 5 home and 5 away instead of 6 each...big deal. And I really think the owners looking to "make money" would be surprised at the attendance figure for a team they never play.
I realize the average fan could care less if the game they are going to is the 6th time Providence has played Syracuse at home this year...but for the core fans it does matter as evident by a lot of the comments on here....and these owners need to remember that the average fan is not guaranteed, they may only come to 1 game a year...it's your core fans...the season ticketholders that are guaranteed revenue. So why would you alienate them???

One of your best posts.....

Because they don't care about the best teams making the playoffs anymore...it's all about money.....both making it and saving it.

Very true. The AHL needs to decide what they want to be when they grow up, which will be never.

Do you want to be true development and stress practice over play? Force the NHL teams to all own their AHL clubs and play a 50 game schedule with all rounds of the playoffs a 5 game series, including the finals.

Do you want to truly prepare the players for the rigors of NHL play? play 76 games (all teams) and play all teams within your conference at least twice and the teams from one division in the other conference at least twice and flip each year.

Or just shut shop and do like the NFL and have a practice squad and roster.

 

[210]

For the record, no one I've talked to in Worcester that could be remotely considered a "die hard" fan is mad at the Sharks for leaving. San Jose was up front with us from the start that they really wanted their affiliate closer to the NHL club, but if that wasn't possible they felt they were in the best possible spot for them. It was their candor in the matter that everyone here appreciated.

Both the fans and Sharks did expect there would be one more season here, but when everything fell into place San Jose did exactly what they said they would do and moved out west.

So disappointment? Yes. Anger? Not that I've seen or heard of.

 

[LadyStanley]

Per my calculations....

The Barracuda are traveling ~26k, average game-to-game travel ~775 miles.

 

[Nightsquad]

One of your best posts.....




Very true. The AHL needs to decide what they want to be when they grow up, which will be never.

Do you want to be true development and stress practice over play? Force the NHL teams to all own their AHL clubs and play a 50 game schedule with all rounds of the playoffs a 5 game series, including the finals.

Do you want to truly prepare the players for the rigors of NHL play? play 76 games (all teams) and play all teams within your conference at least twice and the teams from one division in the other conference at least twice and flip each year.

Or just shut shop and do like the NFL and have a practice squad and roster.

If your stating your opinion well thats one thing, if you are trying to make a legit argument your facts fall short. The AHL established before WWII, 1936 give or take I would recon is well beyond growing up lol. Your question of development has already long been answered. The AHL was well on its way of positioning itself for development years ago. The 1980s the league was in an all out battle to position itself as the top developmental minor league organization. The 1980s saw the Adirondack Red Wings be that model for future success. The ones who complain about this model are the teams fans who have to sit through lousy hockey. If your team was riding high there would be no complaints, I would bet money on it. Through the early 1990s it was the AHL and IHL trying to basically fight for position as the top developmental league. Fortunately for the AHL with Dave Andrews leadership and business insight the AHL didnt make the mistakes the IHL did. Developmental league all the sudden now is a dirty word lol??? The AHL has been that for years now, its just that they have had to adjust and adapt with the changing hockey landscape and business climate for long term survivability. What I would like to see in the coming few years is to have the league work out its landscape or footprint. When thats done and things are settled I would hope the league then takes a good look at a balanced schedule for all thirty clubs. Whether its 40/40, 35/35, or even 30/30 for all teams I dont care. If the product is good, all teams have an opportunity, and if the NHL stays out just enough so the AHL can maintain its own professional image and identity then I think its all good.

 

[ZekeA]

Have you seen the attendance from some midweek games last season? Teams are losing money on those midweek games that don't need to happen.

Wednesday November 11th San Antonio at Texas
Why does this game need to happen after they played each other on Saturday?

"SnowMobile":

Yes I understand midweek games draw less than than weekend games that is far from a secret..................

Can you say for sure that all 30 teams lost $$ on all the midweek games, as do you know the break even point for all 30 teams????

With the schedule being 76 games mid week games have to happen. The 76 game schedule prepares the prospects for the rigors of playing at the next level. The 76 games gives the prospects professional game experience to develop, that is why they play 76 games yes it is a very demanding long hard season for the players......

In your example yes that game has to be played, as it is scheduled even though the teams played the weekend before, teams play 76 games so they play some midweek games, all teams do......

Even though attendance is lower for midweek games it still brings in $$ for the city.

Rent is paid for the arena.
Parking $$$
Restaurant $$$
Taverns for a drink after the game $$$
Concession $$$ @ the arena
Ushers, security, arena staff for games earn $$$ ECT....

 

[adsfan]

"SnowMobile":

Yes I understand midweek games draw less than than weekend games that is far from a secret..................

Can you say for sure that all 30 teams lost $$ on all the midweek games, as do you know the break even point for all 30 teams????

With the schedule being 76 games mid week games have to happen. The 76 game schedule prepares the prospects for the rigors of playing at the next level. The 76 games gives the prospects professional game experience to develop, that is why they play 76 games yes it is a very demanding long hard season for the players......

In your example yes that game has to be played, as it is scheduled even though the teams played the weekend before, teams play 76 games so they play some midweek games, all teams do......

Even though attendance is lower for midweek games it still brings in $$ for the city.

Rent is paid for the arena.
Parking $$$
Restaurant $$$
Taverns for a drink after the game $$$
Concession $$$ @ the arena
Ushers, security, arena staff for games earn $$$ ECT....

The Milwaukee Admirals don't pay rent for weekday (night) games.
While the Admirals don't get and parking or concession money, you are correct that somebody does. The city and the Bucks divide those.

Midweek games in Milwaukee run 2200 to 3500 people. Weekend games usually draw 4500 to 6500 and the team averages 5000 to 5500 for the season. A concert game will draw 10 to 14K to up the season average.

 

[ZekeA]

The Milwaukee Admirals don't pay rent for weekday (night) games.
While the Admirals don't get and parking or concession money, you are correct that somebody does. The city and the Bucks divide those.

Midweek games in Milwaukee run 2200 to 3500 people. Weekend games usually draw 4500 to 6500 and the team averages 5000 to 5500 for the season. A concert game will draw 10 to 14K to up the season average.

"AdsFan":

The Norfolk Admirals did NOT pay any rent for midweek games either a coincidence??????????

As I was told in the AHL there are 30 different business models, and it is true........

Thank you for your input..........

 

[Tommy Hawk]

If your stating your opinion well thats one thing, if you are trying to make a legit argument your facts fall short. The AHL established before WWII, 1936 give or take I would recon is well beyond growing up lol. Your question of development has already long been answered. The AHL was well on its way of positioning itself for development years ago. The 1980s the league was in an all out battle to position itself as the top developmental minor league organization. The 1980s saw the Adirondack Red Wings be that model for future success. The ones who complain about this model are the teams fans who have to sit through lousy hockey. If your team was riding high there would be no complaints, I would bet money on it. Through the early 1990s it was the AHL and IHL trying to basically fight for position as the top developmental league. Fortunately for the AHL with Dave Andrews leadership and business insight the AHL didnt make the mistakes the IHL did. Developmental league all the sudden now is a dirty word lol??? The AHL has been that for years now, its just that they have had to adjust and adapt with the changing hockey landscape and business climate for long term survivability. What I would like to see in the coming few years is to have the league work out its landscape or footprint. When thats done and things are settled I would hope the league then takes a good look at a balanced schedule for all thirty clubs. Whether its 40/40, 35/35, or even 30/30 for all teams I dont care. If the product is good, all teams have an opportunity, and if the NHL stays out just enough so the AHL can maintain its own professional image and identity then I think its all good.

The NHL is not staying out of the way. The AHL is not maintaining its own professional image, etc. When they grow up and want to be a big boy league instead of a pee wee league, then you can talk. Point percentage, different number of games being played by different teams, the horrendous scheduling. Bush league.

They should just go to a college schedule. 52 games all on Friday and Saturday. Only play against division opponents. Then have a round robin tournament at the end of the year for the championship and throw in some memorial cup where the host city automatically qualifies.

 

[Rumblick]

They should just go to a college schedule. 52 games all on Friday and Saturday. Only play against division opponents. Then have a round robin tournament at the end of the year for the championship and throw in some memorial cup where the host city automatically qualifies.

Initially, I kind of liked this idea. More free time, and the Memorial Cup copy is intriguing. Then I thought "Nah, we'd still play Wilkes-Barre & Lehigh 12 times each."

More schedule fodder: Hershey plays Binghamton (a non-division opponent) eight times, more than they play ANY team in their division except the two teams named above. we also play more against the B-Sens than against Toronto, Rochester and Albany COMBINED. Then I see that the Alaska Aces are coming to South Carolina and Gwinnett.

 

[ZekeA]

I have a different view on the schedule than others here.......

I want to see Syracuse as I have been playing them since 1973..... Others I want to see are Allentown, Hershey, WBS, Utica, Rochester, & to be truthful have no desire to see the rest of the conference that much with the exception of the Marlies, and St. John's NL.........

As for the teams in the West I am sure they are good teams with good fans ECT, but I have no desire to play them....

I want to see the teams I have listed above 8-10 times a season that works for me.......

As far as the Maverick teams of California no thank you and I salute the teams in the West who refused to play those Maverick teams......

As for California I hope it rains as the whole state is so very dry.......

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I have a different view on the schedule than others here.......

I want to see Syracuse as I have been playing them since 1973..... Others I want to see are Allentown, Hershey, WBS, Utica, Rochester, & to be truthful have no desire to see the rest of the conference that much with the exception of the Marlies, and St. John's NL.........

As for the teams in the West I am sure they are good teams with good fans ECT, but I have no desire to play them....

I want to see the teams I have listed above 8-10 times a season that works for me.......

As far as the Maverick teams of California no thank you and I salute the teams in the West who refused to play those Maverick teams......

As for California I hope it rains as the whole state is so very dry.......

No one is saying 8 times is too much. How about 14 times versus each of the teams? How about your team misses the playoffs because another team plays games against the rest of the conference and because some of those teams totally suck they get wins where your team loses?

How about of both you and another team have 91 points and you lose out because you played more games than they did against tougher opponents and they didn't?

Still only want to see those games?

 

[Tommy Hawk]

So who's ready for the season? I know for a fact that his schedule has cost the Wolves 2 season ticket holders. I ended up slitting a partial season with a friend. I took one game against each of the NINE opponents the Wolves face, he did the same and we donated the remaining three tickets to charity.

Anybody know of anyone else voting against the schedule with their pocketbooks?

 

[Rumblick]

I'm not technically voting with the pocketbook, but I am going to miss some games this year (will probably throw them on FB to see if anyone wants them or give them to family members), and they will be against our Big 3 (Allentown, Wilkes-Barre & Binghamton).