WJC: 2015 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

[danishh]

Personally I get Gauthier making the team, what I don't get is how many smallish centers does this team need(Domi, Petan, Point, Fabbri). One or 2 of those guys should have been cut

I dont.

Canada's in a drought right now. We've spent six years now sending the right team. Building that perfect 4 line balanced team. Building that politically correct team that doesnt offend anyone. Building that team that no matter what the result, criticizing the builders isnt the option, all blame lies on the players, or the coach.

At some point, Canada has to send the best team. The domi's, the petan's, the point's, and the fabbri's have the ability to score that one goal. The one goal that wins us the elimination game that we might otherwise lose.

HC's decisions on goalies have been insane, but this is Canada. The goaltending shouldnt be the issue, any given top canadian goaltender should be fine. Team Canada hasnt been winning because team canada hasnt been scoring the goals they need to. Doubling down on 'character' and 'style' is a horrible mistake.

With a guy like curtis lazar joining the team, the decision should have been a no-brainer. Freddie gauthier's and they're type are good players. Sure we can build the prototypical 4-line-team and satisfy the Toronto media at the same time. But at the end of the day, if Canada loses again, it's going to be because they didnt score enough, and freddie gauthier isnt a positive in that department.

 

[DanrikCarter]

Lazar is from BC too.

So he is. So it's not the BC bias thing. The rest of my post is still true.

Having said that, I predict Lazar will be captain. Just saying I'd pick Reinhart and that they are probably pretty close even though Lazar seems to be the an almost unanimous choice on here.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I dont.

Canada's in a drought right now. We've spent six years now sending the right team. Building that perfect 4 line balanced team. Building that politically correct team that doesnt offend anyone. Building that team that no matter what the result, criticizing the builders isnt the option, all blame lies on the players, or the coach.

At some point, Canada has to send the best team. The domi's, the petan's, the point's, and the fabbri's have the ability to score that one goal. The one goal that wins us the elimination game that we might otherwise lose.

HC's decisions on goalies have been insane, but this is Canada. The goaltending shouldnt be the issue, any given top canadian goaltender should be fine. Team Canada hasnt been winning because team canada hasnt been scoring the goals they need to. Doubling down on 'character' and 'style' is a horrible mistake.

With a guy like curtis lazar joining the team, the decision should have been a no-brainer. Freddie gauthier's and they're type are good players. Sure we can build the prototypical 4-line-team and satisfy the Toronto media at the same time. But at the end of the day, if Canada loses again, it's going to be because they didnt score enough, and freddie gauthier isnt a positive in that department.

you are right on the money... elite level tournaments are won by elite level players...the belief that certain 18-19 year old junior players have a fully developed defensive game and are critical to "winning" this tournament has proven to be a flawed strategy the past 3 years.... there is a need for a "role player" or 2...but it has to be an elite level player who can best adapt and play that role. The extent to which HC takes this philosophy is just stupid....these are junior players where the abundance of mistakes leads to offense and those teams with most skill and not the most "balanced" are the ones that usually come out the victor. but certain people at Hockey Canada will argue it has more to do with not getting the "bounces" or just "puck luck" than anything else... and for the most part, Canadians buy into this nonsense... "Oh, grit and character and size and intimidation...pucks in deep, boys, heavy on the forecheck, all pucks to the net..." I swear, it's like Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne influence the rest of the morons at HC.

come to think about it, Lloyd and Harry working at Hockey Canada wouldn't be such a bad idea.... it might actually increase the IQ level of that organization.

 

[X66]

Gauthier made the team for the simple fact that he's a very strong possession player and defensive player. His playmaking is also very underrated, and I think he'll show that playing with Virtanen and Ritchie.

You need strong possession players to have success, he'll be an important player.

 

[Leafidelity]

With a guy like curtis lazar joining the team, the decision should have been a no-brainer. Freddie gauthier's and they're type are good players. Sure we can build the prototypical 4-line-team and satisfy the Toronto media at the same time. But at the end of the day, if Canada loses again, it's going to be because they didnt score enough, and freddie gauthier isnt a positive in that department.

This is all kinds of ridiculous. Appease the Toronto media? Gauthier is pretty under the radar in Toronto, especially in a year when Toronto has a first line center playing for Sweden. Infact, there is more straight up Gauthier hate in the Canucks forum than overall discussion about the guy in the Leafs forum.

I know some people want to see allstar teams in National events, but hockey happens at two ends of the ice. Gauthier isn't there to score goals, he's there to prevent them. And he does that extremely well. This isn't new to TC and it didn't suddenly start 5 years ago when Canada stopped winning. They always bring defensive players and spark plugs. If you're blaming the bottom lines for a lack of offence then you've completely lost the plot.

It was the same dumb argument at the Olympics last year when TC didn't just copy the scoring leaders list and put them all on the roster.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I thought HC had tough choices to make. Surprised MDC got cut, but I can see why they wanted to keep some of the beef. I was impressed by Crouse.

Will have to wait and see if keeping the big hitters will cause penalty problems. That is usually the case with international refs.

 

[xxxx]

I'm fine with the roster. Paul impressed me and I think he will be a very good piece on the team. Gauthier, Virtanen, Ritchie, all had a good game and I don't have a problem with them at all again. Dal Colle might be a surprise, but he really didn't do anything special in the game, so there's that. Crouse fully deserves his spot and will be a perfect 13th forward imo.

Not sure why all the complaining about offence. Canada outplayed Russia clearly and this team will play 2 another firendly games to get it better so I think we will be ok.

Fabbri - McDavid - Lazar
Domi - Reinhart - Duclair
Petan - Paul - Virtanen
Ritchie - Gauthier - Point
Crouse


Petan will be another boost in the line-up and I think whether the RW there is Virtanen or Point, the Paul line will be a 1C line. The fourth line is going to be huge imo.

 

[AwesomePanthers]

How can the cut MDC? He's exactly the type of player that just need one chance to score, and can change the game in to your favor.

Team Canada ruined my fantasy team

 

[TT1]

a virtanen - gauthier - ritchie line... dear lord why are these guys even playing for team canada? oh right because theyre either high draft picks or got picked by a canadian team.

****ing politics, im so tired of this **** honestly

 

[snizzbone*]

a virtanen - gauthier - ritchie line... dear lord why are these guys even playing for team canada? oh right because theyre either high draft picks or got picked by a canadian team.

****ing politics, im so tired of this **** honestly

Did you even watch the game tonight? Was a very good line.

 

[TT1]

Did you even watch the game tonight? Was a very good line.

watch them when the tournament starts

 

[JackSlater]

Overall the team looks good. From what I've seen, Morin probably should have been cut over Fleury, but I am guessing that Groulx wants his size. Ritchie should have been cut due to his penalty issues, plain and simple. This team seems to be constructed in order to have a clearly defined top 6 and bottom 6, which is unfortunate in my opinion. You need defensive players for defensive situations (Gauthier being on the team is ok, if he is utilized properly) but you don't need to devote whole lines to it when you can fill them with overall talent. Bringing guys for physicality is also generally a poor idea with IIHF refs afoot.

 

[Leafidelity]

a virtanen - gauthier - ritchie line... dear lord why are these guys even playing for team canada? oh right because theyre either high draft picks or got picked by a canadian team.

****ing politics, im so tired of this **** honestly

You forgot the goalie that can't catch, also picked by a Canadian team. I wonder why.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Overall the team looks good. From what I've seen, Morin probably should have been cut over Fleury, but I am guessing that Groulx wants his size. Ritchie should have been cut due to his penalty issues, plain and simple. This team seems to be constructed in order to have a clearly defined top 6 and bottom 6, which is unfortunate in my opinion. You need defensive players for defensive situations (Gauthier being on the team is ok, if he is utilized properly) but you don't need to devote whole lines to it when you can fill them with overall talent. Bringing guys for physicality is also generally a poor idea with IIHF refs afoot.

Which is exactly what the dough-heads (Jankowski) at HC said they wouldn't do this year... and it really is unfortunate...

like I said 6 weeks ago, HC always talks a good game in the lead up to another camp, but when push comes to shove, they revert back to their default position. It truly is a spectacle of dumb and dumber.

but I said my peace. )) now it's time to support my boys and its go Canada go. but fail to make the GMG and the gloves come off again for the morons at HC.

 

[canucks10]

Domi - Reinhart - Duclair
Lazar - McDavid - Virtanen
Fabbri - Petan - Point
Ritchie - Paul - Crouse
Gauthier

Morrissey - Bowey
Nurse - Theodore
Morin - Hicketts
Heatherington

Comrie
Fucale

 

[TT1]

You forgot the goalie that can't catch, also picked by a Canadian team. I wonder why.

also extremely overrated, although hes not as bad as that no offense/no hockey IQ line. theyre just 3 mongrels that run around the ice aimlessly, no talent or hockey smarts whatsoever.

 

[DamonDRW]

each and every year you're all talking about offense. From my POV it does not really matter who you're going to go with at O as long as you have studs like McDavid, Lazar, etc. The actual point is how to play a team game with D having the greatest impact on this. This is the only way how to hide those problems in goal Canada is having...

 

[Tripod]

Three scoring lines, one shutdown line. There are spots for exceptional talents like Marner and Strome, atleast an invite so they get an opportunity to compete for those spots. Dal Colle who would have been the best goalscorer on that team should have made that team.

Canada is a country that can out-skill any other team in the tournament yet they insist on lowering themselves to the competition by taking some of these guys they end up taking every year.

This is the truest point. I don't know why they keep doing it.

 

[member 147413]

The hate that some players get because of who drafted them is absolutely ridiculous. Gauthier and Virtanen are already the reason we've lost this tournament and we haven't even started yet.

 

[TT1]

The hate that some players get because of who drafted them is absolutely ridiculous. Gauthier and Virtanen are already the reason we've lost this tournament and we haven't even started yet.

has nothing to do with it, Ritchie is the worse of the 3.

 

[biturbo19]

Fleury being the defensive cut seems reasonable to me. Heatherington is just such an impressively steady defensive presence among his peers, and can be that PK ace that we'll inevitably need when the big boys up front get a little overzealous with the physical play for international refs taste. He's been rock solid throughout the evaluation process defensively, and it's not as though he can't skate or make an outlet pass or unleash a big shot as needed.

Similarly with Morin who can be that big rangy two-way presence.

Fleury is talented, but he's also younger and more erratic than either of those guys...and while he may be more "dynamic", we've already got a strong complement of dynamic blueliners.

Personally, Hicketts is the keep that i would've swapped out for Fleury. Still don't really understand why he was considered a "lock" so early in the process. But if the team is dead set on bringing the little guy along, Fleury made more sense as a cut than Morin or Heatherington.

Really, if it weren't for Bowey being the lone RH shot on the blueline...he probably would've found himself on the outside looking in. But you can't go into a tournament like this with 7 LH shooting defenceman.

 

[1Gold Standard]

each and every year you're all talking about offense. From my POV it does not really matter who you're going to go with at O as long as you have studs like McDavid, Lazar, etc. The actual point is how to play a team game with D having the greatest impact on this. This is the only way how to hide those problems in goal Canada is having...

Having a "team strategy" and then picking the players you believe best fits that strategy has proven over and over again to be ineffective at the junior level. These are incomplete, still developing, flawed hockey players we are talking about..

You pick the best players 23 players (for some stupid reason Canada only picks 22)and then build a strategy for the players at your disposal that best suits their particular skill set and then, let it all hang out from there... if we lose, we lose.. no big deal. but expecting 18 and 19 year olds to be defensive aficionados and the key to winning or losing???? not at this level. I'd rather go down with my 23 best players on the ice... not 17 of my best players and 6 who are there to play a specific role.

 

[boredmale]

At some point, Canada has to send the best team. The domi's, the petan's, the point's, and the fabbri's have the ability to score that one goal. The one goal that wins us the elimination game that we might otherwise lose.

For the sake of argument I won't question Domi or Fabbri, it's more they should have cut one of the other 2(Point or Petan, and I am leaning towards Point) but if Canada wants to pick goal scoring they cut the guy who has the best Goals per game ratio in the CHL

 

[xxxx]

a virtanen - gauthier - ritchie line... dear lord why are these guys even playing for team canada? oh right because theyre either high draft picks or got picked by a canadian team.

****ing politics, im so tired of this **** honestly

M. Dal Colle is a 5th overall pick. Just saying.

 

[biturbo19]

Personally I get Gauthier making the team, what I don't get is how many smallish centers does this team need(Domi, Petan, Point, Fabbri). One or 2 of those guys should have been cut

I don't really like Gauthier being there, but i do understand it. That's clearly the model for the team that they want to build it to...they want a big grinding "4th line". And frankly, while i don't love it, that type of line can be very useful when paired with guys like Virtanen/Crouse/Ritchie who can just cycle the puck down low at will and physically bully the opposition, including a lot of top "small skilled puck mover" types.

The point about small forwards though, is something i kind of agree with. And i think that's where Team Canada's reasoning starts to kind of fall apart for me.

None of these "small skill guys" is likely to end up playing Center for this team anyway. And they're already starting from what should be a disadvantaged position if HC wants to value size for this team. So given that...

Domi and Fabbri have justified their presence by being dynamic offensive players who can push the tempo and fill a solid "offensive specialist" role in the top-6 beyond question really. Point has justified his spot on the roster by being a consistent sparkplug, playing his ass off all over the lineup as a versatile piece, proving himself defensively and frankly you can justify sending him out there in an "energy role" or a "defensive role" or you can use his slick offensive skillset in the top-6 as needed.

What has Petan done though? I still just do not understand why he's been treated as a "lock" for this team seemingly from the start. What does he offer that Dal Colle doesn't, in a bigger more "Team Canada" sized package? Petan is being brought as an offensive specialist...but has he really justified his spot in that role over Dal Colle? He's not having a great year, he's been very underwhelming to me throughout the evaluation process, and he wasn't really very good last year in an "offensive specialist" role to begin with. Dal Colle is bigger, a better goal scorer, an equal defensively, more comfortable playing the wing naturally, and frankly the more productive player right now. What does Petan do, that Dal Colle does not? One guy is a "lock", the other is a "cut"?

If Hockey Canada wants to bring a big, skilled, two-way team...then do that, and don't just apply it to the "bottom-6". Start at the top and make everyone earn it.


Hopefully Petan just lights it up and proves me wrong. But his performance as a go-to offensive player last year (on a team that fell way short in scoring) left a real sour taste in my mouth, and i don't think he's done anything through the evaluation process this year to show me that he'd be a better guy to take than Dal Colle in an "offensive role".