Prospect Info: 2014 World Junior Championship discussion | Pouliot (1G, 3A) | Sundqvist (2G, 1GWG)

[Tasty Biscuits]

Multiple opinions vs just one opinion.

When everyone besides Shero has an opinion on a player I'm more inclined to trust them over just one guy.

Sweet, you got access to all the other teams' draft boards? That stuff always interests me, I'd love to see that if you're willing to share.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Sweet, you got access to all the other teams' draft boards? That stuff always interests me, I'd love to see that if you're willing to share.

I'm sure you can find many reports, before or after the draft, ranking DP over FF and Truba.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I'm sure you can find many reports, before or after the draft, ranking DP over FF and Truba.

So the "reports" have never been wrong? The list order has always accurately reflected the value of each player in the draft for the rest of their careers? Good to know. I don't know why teams bother to scout when they have Bob McKenzie's polling of a small amount of scouts to tell them which players are the best.

Thankfully, I don't judge prospects by "consensus" lists, and literally neither does any NHL team. They use those lists just to make sure they've scouted all the players and haven't missed any.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

So the "reports" have never been wrong? The list order has always accurately reflected the value of each player in the draft for the rest of their careers? Good to know. I don't know why teams bother to scout when they have Bob McKenzie's polling of a small amount of scouts to tell them which players are the best.

Thankfully, I don't judge prospects by "consensus" lists, and literally neither does any NHL team. They use those lists just to make sure they've scouted all the players and haven't missed any.

The first paragraph is one big strawman. I could just as easily say that Hickey was taken off the board so every player taken off the board is a mistake and it's would be about as strong of an argument.

I'm guessing that you watch all the prospects play and form your own opinions by how you phrased the last paragraph. That's great. Not every one has an opportunity to spend those hours scouting JR players, and TBH even if I did have that time I'd defer to guy's opinions that know much more about it than I do.

I read up on a bunch of those guys before the draft because of the CAR rumors and made my opinion based on multiple scouting reports. You may not like how I came to that conclusion, but nothing DP has done since the draft has made me consider changing my opinion. Maybe that'll change when DP makes it here, in a few years, but IMO having FF or Truba on the team right now would be pretty helpful.

 

[Gallatin]

Reading "we should have taken Griggs" over and over again by people that have no idea how bad he is drives me crazy.

That kid is the "anti-penguin" has zero compete level, and is looking like a complete bust in Buffalo. His teammates hated him, at least until he got sent down to the A recently.

The Pens would have never take a legit "Lazy Russian" like him, nor should they have to satisfy a fanbase obsessed with scoring forwards.

 

[Captain Hook]

Reading "we should have taken Griggs" over and over again by people that have no idea how bad he is drives me crazy.

That kid is the "anti-penguin" has zero compete level, and is looking like a complete bust in Buffalo. His teammates hated him, at least until he got sent down to the A recently.

The Pens would have never take a legit "Lazy Russian" like him, nor should they have to satisfy a fanbase obsessed with scoring forwards.

Yeah, I'm starting to think the Pens dodged a bullet by not taking Griggs based on what I've heard about him even from some Sabres fans I know. I won't wright off his career yet but it isn't looking good.

I'm never really screaming to draft a certain guy. I'm more of the type that will wait to see how these kids develop and if there's something to criticize at that point then I will.

 

[WVP]

The first paragraph is one big strawman. I could just as easily say that Hickey was taken off the board so every player taken off the board is a mistake and it's would be about as strong of an argument.

I'm guessing that you watch all the prospects play and form your own opinions by how you phrased the last paragraph. That's great. Not every one has an opportunity to spend those hours scouting JR players, and TBH even if I did have that time I'd defer to guy's opinions that know much more about it than I do.

I read up on a bunch of those guys before the draft because of the CAR rumors and made my opinion based on multiple scouting reports. You may not like how I came to that conclusion, but nothing DP has done since the draft has made me consider changing my opinion. Maybe that'll change when DP makes it here, in a few years, but IMO having FF or Truba on the team right now would be pretty helpful.

Draft rankings and projections from before a draft are worth as much as the TP you wiped your *** with and flushed 2 weeks ago. Heck, most of them at the time are bandwagon copy and paste anyways. McKenzie's list is about the only interesting one as it reflects the actual lists from 10-15 "real" scouts.

 

[zidell*]

Multiple opinions vs just one opinion.

When everyone besides Shero has an opinion on a player I'm more inclined to trust them over just one guy.

I have seen many redrafts, and not one has Pouliot in the top 10. Nothing has changed, 2 years later. It was a bad pick. It was stupid pick.

 

[WVP]

I have seen many redrafts, and not one has Pouliot in the top 10. Nothing has changed, 2 years later. It was a bad pick. It was stupid pick.

2 years later, well that settles that.

 

[Will Hunting]

Why are people still complaining about the Pouliot pick? We've had 2 complete drafts since then. C'mon, it gets old. Nothing said now will be new. Everything said here will just be a broken record.

Anyway, I like the Pouliot pick. Again, as I've said a thousand times, GRIGORENKO IS A CENTER. Using a top-10 pick on a player just to change his position is beyond stupid. Believe it or not, moving a center to the wing doesn't always work. I thought that notion would stop after Jeffery fell flat on his face, but I guess not. Shero shouldn't use the only top-10 pick we'll have for 10 years on a center just so we can convert him to the wing.

Trouba would have been an even dumber pick. We already have a problem with too many NHL ready D, how would adding another help anything? I know he'll be and is good, but just because he's NHL ready this quickly doesn't mean we should have picked him. Bylsma wouldn't have played him, and one of him or Maatta would be playing in too low of a league. The number of veteran D we have just don't work, Trouba wouldn't have been a smart pick.

Forsberg would have been nice, but I like Pouliot better than him.

Agreed with Grigs, thank god we haven´t picked him.

The Trouba interpretation is crazy, though. We would be dumb to pick Trouba, because he´s NHL ready now?? Wow, wtf?? Even dumber than Grigs?? Please..

Having NHL-ready Trouba instead of DP (who I absolutely love) would probably lead to Nisky´s trade in the last offseason, if anything. Or he would play here this year instead of Olli. Or very likely both of those, that´s the likely scenario. Everyone knew before this season that Trouba IS NHL-ready and he WOULD be playing for us right now. If Maatta could, Trouba definitely could.

Trouba is the only player I would take ahead of Pouliot, retrospectively. I´ve wanted him at the draft as well. But as I´ve said, I love Pouliot. Even more than Maatta.

 

[Fogel]

Draft rankings and projections from before a draft are worth as much as the TP you wiped your *** with and flushed 2 weeks ago. Heck, most of them at the time are bandwagon copy and paste anyways. McKenzie's list is about the only interesting one as it reflects the actual lists from 10-15 "real" scouts.

It always shocks me that there isn't an equivalent to Baseball America whose lists are derived from industry sources in hockey besides McKenzie that are respected within the industry.

 

[penguins2946*]

Agreed with Grigs, thank god we haven´t picked him.

The Trouba interpretation is crazy, though. We would be dumb to pick Trouba, because he´s NHL ready now?? Wow, wtf?? Even dumber than Grigs?? Please..

Having NHL-ready Trouba instead of DP (who I absolutely love) would probably lead to Nisky´s trade in the last offseason, if anything. Or he would play here this year instead of Olli. Or very likely both of those, that´s the likely scenario. Everyone knew before this season that Trouba IS NHL-ready and he WOULD be playing for us right now. If Maatta could, Trouba definitely could.

Trouba is the only player I would take ahead of Pouliot, retrospectively. I´ve wanted him at the draft as well. But as I´ve said, I love Pouliot. Even more than Maatta.

We already have a huge log jam at D right now. Whether or not it would have made sense, Shero wouldn't have moved Niskanen or Orpik. Either Trouba or Maatta wouldn't be playing for us right now, which is bogus. Either Maatta would have been forced back down to the OHL or Trouba to the AHL. Then what about Despres? He goes from a full time NHLer in 12-13 to not even the first call up on the AHL team.

If Niskanen or Orpik would have been moved, I would have taken Trouba with ease. However, that wouldn't and isn't going to happen. As much as people here want to make it happen, it won't happen.

 

[#66]

I have seen many redrafts, and not one has Pouliot in the top 10. Nothing has changed, 2 years later. It was a bad pick. It was stupid pick.

Why not watch the players play instead of being told what to think? Other players might be more NHL ready, some at forward but the player with the most elite skill is Pouliot.

Then add in a need for a PPQB and that pick makes to much sense.

Then add in that the Pens play an F3 system and there just aren't many spots for skill up front. That's why you see Adams play with Sid or Dupes have that extended stay on a top line. Even when they're first in a forecheck they cycle back up top to become a defensive player.

The system is actually pretty good but the devil is in the details for Bylsma.

 

[Will Hunting]

We already have a huge log jam at D right now. Whether or not it would have made sense, Shero wouldn't have moved Niskanen or Orpik. Either Trouba or Maatta wouldn't be playing for us right now, which is bogus. Either Maatta would have been forced back down to the OHL or Trouba to the AHL. Then what about Despres? He goes from a full time NHLer in 12-13 to not even the first call up on the AHL team.

If Niskanen or Orpik would have been moved, I would have taken Trouba with ease. However, that wouldn't and isn't going to happen. As much as people here want to make it happen, it won't happen.

OK, so we agree on bolded. The Orpik/Nisky trade is still a speculation but remember how close to trade Nisky was before the season start. It was actually very close. Maybe the Trouba´s NHL readiness would be the difference maker there, you never know.

The worst case would be Trouba here and Maatta in juniors with Nisky still here. Still not a bad situation to be in. The best case would be Trouba here together with Maatta. Either way, Trouba would be a good pick, period.

If there are only 1-2 players who make you (slightly) regret 8th overall pick (Trouba, maybe Forsberg but that still remains to be seen), that´s not a bad pick at all. Pouliot is also a better option than some of the players taken before him (see Dumba). We should be OK with DP. I can´t wait to see him in PIT.

 

[Lustaf]

Sundqvist just showed some moves on a breakaway and scored, making it 2-0 after Russia only managed 1 shot on a 4 minute pp.

 

[Beauner]

Sundqvist just scored on a breakaway. Sweet move to the backhand then top-shelf.

 

[Will Hunting]

Sundqvist with a huge goal against the Russians. A nice one, too.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Sundqvist just showed some moves on a breakaway and scored, making it 2-0 after Russia only managed 1 shot on a 4 minute pp.

That was an awesome play all around. Went all the way back deep in his zone with a defensive play and then took off. Great move and back hand from the kid

 

[eXile59]

Twas a nice goal. I think the biggest thing holding him back is his skating. It just looks raw.

 

[vodeni]

what an exciting hockey, not missing hitting and goonery at all

 

[eXile59]

Monster back check & then stick handled his way out of a bad situation in the neutral zone.

I've seen Sundqvist at our prospect camps & he was very unnoticeable but he's been great this year at the WJC.

 

[eXile59]

That got out of control.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Twas a nice goal. I think the biggest thing holding him back is his skating. It just looks raw.

I don't think it is any worse than Staal's skating was at 19.

But ya, it could be what holds him back.

A lot to love about him though. Size, grit, defensive acumen and skill.

Could be a really good third pivot one day if his skating improves.

 

[Beauner]

The Russian team are the most classless, ridiculous bunch of shmucks I've ever seen play hockey. Starting **** after the game, the whole American thing...then Slepyshev freaked out apparently.

The Swede who came out of the box was wrong and that should be a suspension but it looked like the Russians started the whloe thing.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe it's partly because this is a tournament of teenagers but Sundqvist looks huge on the ice. Not just tall but really thick.

I like his skating though. Long, powerful strides, good balance, not too upright, pivots well for a big guy. Will need work on his first few steps.