Prospect Info: 2014 Traverse City Tournament – 0-3-1, 8th Place

sabrefan27

Registered User
Mar 9, 2004
7,108
425
Rochester, NY
Could poor coaching be the main reason for the overall poor results? Last I remember, Chaddddd kinda sucks. I would think with the talent on that team, the scores would at least be close. :dunno:

Cassidy isn't a good coach at all, but it's hard to imagine he could have such of a negative impact in only a few games.
 

Doug Prishpreed

Registered User
May 1, 2013
10,163
6,808
Brooklyn
Could poor coaching be the main reason for the overall poor results? Last I remember, Chaddddd kinda sucks. I would think with the talent on that team, the scores would at least be close. :dunno:

Chadd only sucks to people on here. Murray, Nolan et al gush about the guy, and it's hard for me not to trust them more. No, I think we're just overvaluing our prospects. Some people on here have McCabe penciled in as future captain material, for instance, when he might top out as a Weber-like role player when all is said and done.
 

Moskau

Registered User
Jun 30, 2004
19,978
4,743
WNY
Chadd only sucks to people on here. Murray, Nolan et al gush about the guy, and it's hard for me not to trust them more. No, I think we're just overvaluing our prospects. Some people on here have McCabe penciled in as future captain material, for instance, when he might top out as a Weber-like role player when all is said and done.
They gush about him as a players coach.
 

stokes84

Registered User
Jun 30, 2008
19,314
4,186
Charleston, SC
Could poor coaching be the main reason for the overall poor results? Last I remember, Chaddddd kinda sucks. I would think with the talent on that team, the scores would at least be close. :dunno:

They've been together for 4 days and had, what, 1 practice? You can't possibly be serious.
 

Paxon

202* Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
29,005
5,177
Rochester, NY
Chadd only sucks to people on here. Murray, Nolan et al gush about the guy, and it's hard for me not to trust them more. No, I think we're just overvaluing our prospects. Some people on here have McCabe penciled in as future captain material, for instance, when he might top out as a Weber-like role player when all is said and done.

Murray obviously approves of him enough to keep him but I haven't seen him gush -- not saying he hasn't, I just haven't seen it. I actually think those who followed Rochester closely the past two years are more qualified than Murray to make general assessments of Cassidy as a game coach. Murray's more qualified to make assessments of Cassidy as a player's coach and developer. His players clearly like him, not unlike Nolan, but criticisms of Chadd from the Rochester faithful are that the system he has the team play is poor and he is not good at handling line-ups, which is not unlike criticisms that get leveled at Nolan.

The results of this tournament vs. expectations have nothing to do with people overvaluing the prospects. Reinhart, for example, has not produced anything. Does that mean he's overvalued? Pronman highly praised Armia's performance in the tournament, and he's also produced nothing. This has little to do with the quality of our prospects or Chadd's ability as a coach. This team of largely 18-20 year olds simply hasn't played well in three exhibition games for which it was hastily thrown together after months of not playing hockey. Goaltending laid a big egg in two of the three games. The team has taken far too many penalties and got burned by it far too many times. In the first two games when the team dominated even strength action, it was completely unable to convert on its chances. None of this indicates that we are overrating our prospects, nor does it reflect much on the coaching staff. Do you think Dallas fans wouldn't trade the rights to their Traverse roster for ours just because they beat us?

Regarding McCabe, as has been mentioned in this thread his game has taken a somewhat unsettling turn towards that of a riverboat gambler the past year or so. Even if that doesn't change he will be better than Mike Weber, a guy who has only played like a competent NHLer for stretches of his career. Will McCabe be a strong top 4 guy? Perhaps not, though it's certainly in the cards, but I'd comfortably bet that he'll be a better bottom pairing guy than Weber at worst. This isn't Gragnani or TJ Brennan.

It's hard for me to actually analyze the job that Chadd has done with this tournament having not seen the games but my two biggest complaints would be that I wanted Carrier-Reinhart-Armia from the start and that Makarov should have started today. I doubt either of those things would have really mattered.

Keep in mind that the organization's primary focus in these tournaments is not winning 1st place. It's mostly about evaluating players -- particularly those who will not be in the NHL this year -- and giving those who will compete for spots a leg up heading into camp. It's also about team bonding, getting these kids from disparate teams and leagues together with the sense that they're all part of the Buffalo Sabres, forming personal bonds that will be there when some are actual Buffalo Sabres. We didn't do this but if you look around guys like Gaudreau, Draisaitl, Ehlers, and Nylander were held out of some of the games just to keep them fresh going into their training camp competitions, which no team in their right mind would do if they were at all concerned with winning out.

Don't take the above as me scoffing at the idea of winning in light of losing, because this tournament has SUCKED and I'm not happy about it. In evaluating the coaching or the talent though, people have to keep in mind that they aren't "coaching to win". They're not doing match-ups, they're putting underwhelming defensive players on the PK, lines are rolled, etc. These games are far less indicative than NHL preseason games and I don't think anyone would argue that the scoreboard indicates anything about the quality of the teams in those.
 

ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
15,399
1,449
Buffalo, NY
They've been together for 4 days and had, what, 1 practice? You can't possibly be serious.

First, it was a question, not a statement. Second, majority of the fans that follow the Amerks (it seems from what I've read) think Chadddd is easily replaceable. And Third, yes, with the talent on the team, I would THINK (note the lack of absolute unwavering knowledge and paragraphs of mind numbing stats), the scores would be a little closer.

Notice how I have said nothing about effort, bad bounces, hard work, bad goaltending or just plain bad luck. It was simply a question (not a statement) of the ability of Cassidy to get this team to have better results on the scoreboard at the end of the game.

If you're reading into something I didn't type, that's on you.
 

Moskau

Registered User
Jun 30, 2004
19,978
4,743
WNY
One thing I take away from something like this is that even though the team didn't win or look like winners every minute of every game Rasmus Ristolainen did (apparently), and he did in rookie camp and he did to close out last season from the WJC on. You need prospects to build and build and build the way Risto is and the way Baptiste is. Some players look like winners early on and Ristolainen looks like one to me. He's going to be a stud.
 

SamsonReinFart

Registered User
Mar 15, 2011
463
3
Buffalo, NY
What a crazy weekend it's been! Traverse is a small town and we've gotten to meet lindy ruff (here with Dallas), Kevin Devine, Tim Murray, and Kris Baker! Plus, I emailed the sabres and they let us meet Reinhart, Armia, Lemieux, and Ristolainen after the game today. What an awesome experience. All great guys, and all of them not happy with the games. Lemieux was mad. Ristolainen and Armia stayed after and worked out at the rink and got a cab back to the hotel instead of taking the bus with the team.

Anyways, I don't think the score was indicative of the game. Dallas was definitely better, but as was the story all weekend, penalties and goaltending killed us. Random thoughts:

- Armia and Ristolainen were the best sabres and it wasn't even close.

- I was really excited for Carrier after the rookie camp but he was largely unnoticeable. Was fighting the puck a lot. Wasn't bad, just didn't create much.

- Cornel and Karabacek had some chemistry and got up and down the ice well. But they need to take what's given and stop forcing passes through the middle.

- Lemieux was bad in my opinion. Too many penalties and he didn't seem to really be agitating the other team, just not helping Buffalo. That being said, he was significantly better in the 3rd.

- I said it after last game but McCabe but noticeably bad. Soooo many turnovers on breakout passes. Just gotta work himself out of this funk.

- i wish I could remember more specifics, but I liked the invite Joly the best. Created a lot of offense and had some skills with the puck.

- just a general problem today was getting shots through. Soooo many shots went into shin pads or skates. I don't know how to fix that besides getting into better lanes and picking your spots better.

That's all that comes to mind right now. If anyone wanted thoughts on any other specific player, let me know! Also doing this from my phone so hopefully no autocorrect errors....
 

ForsakenSabre

Save Us MIttelstadt
Jan 31, 2013
1,123
129
Buffalo
Random thoughts:

- Armia and Ristolainen were the best sabres and it wasn't even close.

- I was really excited for Carrier after the rookie camp but he was largely unnoticeable. Was fighting the puck a lot. Wasn't bad, just didn't create much.

- Cornel and Karabacek had some chemistry and got up and down the ice well. But they need to take what's given and stop forcing passes through the middle.

- Lemieux was bad in my opinion. Too many penalties and he didn't seem to really be agitating the other team, just not helping Buffalo. That being said, he was significantly better in the 3rd.

- I said it after last game but McCabe but noticeably bad. Soooo many turnovers on breakout passes. Just gotta work himself out of this funk.

- i wish I could remember more specifics, but I liked the invite Joly the best. Created a lot of offense and had some skills with the puck.

- just a general problem today was getting shots through. Soooo many shots went into shin pads or skates. I don't know how to fix that besides getting into better lanes and picking your spots better.

That's all that comes to mind right now. If anyone wanted thoughts on any other specific player, let me know! Also doing this from my phone so hopefully no autocorrect errors....

Thanks for the insight! Really cool the Sabres set up a meet and greet for you guys
 

start winnin

NO MORE TANK BOYS
May 7, 2011
10,075
1,124
Buffalo
One thing I take away from something like this is that even though the team didn't win or look like winners every minute of every game Rasmus Ristolainen did (apparently), and he did in rookie camp and he did to close out last season from the WJC on. You need prospects to build and build and build the way Risto is and the way Baptiste is. Some players look like winners early on and Ristolainen looks like one to me. He's going to be a stud.

Risto didn't impress me immediately after we drafted him (I thought Zad was more impressive) but he's easily separated himself from the pack on defense. I agree he's going to be a beast.
 

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
78,716
40,498
Hamburg,NY
What a crazy weekend it's been! Traverse is a small town and we've gotten to meet lindy ruff (here with Dallas), Kevin Devine, Tim Murray, and Kris Baker! Plus, I emailed the sabres and they let us meet Reinhart, Armia, Lemieux, and Ristolainen after the game today. What an awesome experience. All great guys, and all of them not happy with the games. Lemieux was mad. Ristolainen and Armia stayed after and worked out at the rink and got a cab back to the hotel instead of taking the bus with the team.

Anyways, I don't think the score was indicative of the game. Dallas was definitely better, but as was the story all weekend, penalties and goaltending killed us. Random thoughts:

- Armia and Ristolainen were the best sabres and it wasn't even close.

- I was really excited for Carrier after the rookie camp but he was largely unnoticeable. Was fighting the puck a lot. Wasn't bad, just didn't create much.

- Cornel and Karabacek had some chemistry and got up and down the ice well. But they need to take what's given and stop forcing passes through the middle.

- Lemieux was bad in my opinion. Too many penalties and he didn't seem to really be agitating the other team, just not helping Buffalo. That being said, he was significantly better in the 3rd.

- I said it after last game but McCabe but noticeably bad. Soooo many turnovers on breakout passes. Just gotta work himself out of this funk.

- i wish I could remember more specifics, but I liked the invite Joly the best. Created a lot of offense and had some skills with the puck.

- just a general problem today was getting shots through. Soooo many shots went into shin pads or skates. I don't know how to fix that besides getting into better lanes and picking your spots better.

That's all that comes to mind right now. If anyone wanted thoughts on any other specific player, let me know! Also doing this from my phone so hopefully no autocorrect errors....

Thanks for the observations.
 

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
Are our prospects in this tournament appreciably younger than other teams, on average? Trying to find some reassuring silver lining.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,273
6,753
Are our prospects in this tournament appreciably younger than other teams, on average? Trying to find some reassuring silver lining.

How about, it's just a small tournament without your organization's two best goalie prospects and a couple other stud prospects with College players not included.
 

jvirk

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
1,176
0
I'm very pleased Armia was given high praise in all 3 games...really wanna see him turn into a great winger for us
 

tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
29,925
22,088
How about, it's just a small tournament without your organization's two best goalie prospects and a couple other stud prospects with College players not included.

This. And I mean, when we won a. Purple years ago, weren't Luke Adam and Marcus Foligno our top prospects there? The wins don't seem to mean all that much.

Edit: not sure how "a few" got autocorrected to "purple" :laugh: Ok, phone.
 
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LaxSabre

Registered User
Apr 19, 2006
14,186
329
North Tonawanda, NY
@ChrisRyndak - No morning skate for the #Sabres. Final game of the Traverse City Tourney at 3:00 pm ET vs St. Louis Blues.
(LaxSabre - 7th Place Game) Listen on ESPN 1520 and #Sabres.com (Flash required)

LaxSabre - The rest of the schedule for the final day of the Traverse City Tourney -
3:30 pm ET - 5th Place Game - Minnesota Wild vs New York Rangers.
6:30 pm ET - 3rd Place Game - Detroit Red Wings vs Carolina Hurricanes.
7:00 pm ET - Championship Game - Dallas Stars vs Columbus Blue Jackets.
 
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Paxon

202* Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
29,005
5,177
Rochester, NY
Are our prospects in this tournament appreciably younger than other teams, on average? Trying to find some reassuring silver lining.

Average birth year:
Sabres F: 94.142857
Sabres D: 94.428571

Hurricanes F: 93.692308
Hurricanes D: 93.75

Rangers F: 93.2
Rangers D: 93.571429

Stars F: 93.9375
Stars D: 94.375

It's important to note a few things, rendering this information pretty close to useless:
#1 I only used birth year, not birth date. That could push the gap nearly a year in either direction if the statistical stars aligned.

#2 I used all players on each roster (except Baptiste as I knew he did not participate). Some teams have as many as 4 extra forwards. That skews the data if guys aren't playing. So there's no accounting for whether a guy even played or weighing of roles/ice time.

#3 It probably would've been more useful to just note the amount of players who played in the AHL last year on each team. I know the Stars, who do not average out by this method to be appreciably younger, had several key players from their Calder Cup run on the roster.
 

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
Average birth year:
Sabres F: 94.142857
Sabres D: 94.428571

Hurricanes F: 93.692308
Hurricanes D: 93.75

Rangers F: 93.2
Rangers D: 93.571429

Stars F: 93.9375
Stars D: 94.375

It's important to note a few things, rendering this information pretty close to useless:
#1 I only used birth year, not birth date. That could push the gap nearly a year in either direction if the statistical stars aligned.

#2 I used all players on each roster (except Baptiste as I knew he did not participate). Some teams have as many as 4 extra forwards. That skews the data if guys aren't playing. So there's no accounting for whether a guy even played or weighing of roles/ice time.

#3 It probably would've been more useful to just note the amount of players who played in the AHL last year on each team. I know the Stars, who do not average out by this method to be appreciably younger, had several key players from their Calder Cup run on the roster.

Thanks! I know some folks had talked about how having more experienced players on the roster really mattered at this stage. Good to know that casual observation actually bears out. I would be tempted to assume that your caveats probably average out for most teams, rendering the data fairly reflective.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
150,934
100,876
Tarnation
Regarding the Cassidy conversation, I don't know if you can put this on him. They don't have much if any practice time and he himself talked of putting players into certain situations to see how they do. Of note, that would be some of the forwards getting PKing time who may not normally be in that position. It's also hard to put a lack of finish on the coach. They carried play in games 1 and 2, with shot and chance advantages throughout. Short tournie, limited practice time... and everyone gripping it a bit tightly.

One thing I take away from something like this is that even though the team didn't win or look like winners every minute of every game Rasmus Ristolainen did (apparently), and he did in rookie camp and he did to close out last season from the WJC on. You need prospects to build and build and build the way Risto is and the way Baptiste is. Some players look like winners early on and Ristolainen looks like one to me. He's going to be a stud.

Agreed. His development curve has been excellent. It was also heartening to hear Armia playing well, putting the hand injury behind him, as well as Karabacek and Cornel getting onto people's radar. Reinhart carried play as well, in all situations.
 

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