Prospect Info: 2014 Sharks prospect camp

[sr228]

I do not think it's a good thing that he said the players in Worcester aren't playing the same system as they are in SJ and that he needs to go down there and make sure that they're on the same page.

For anyone who has watched even 5 minutes of Worcester Sharks hockey this isn't even a little bit surprising.

It's also a reason why retaining Sommer for as long as they have is a complete joke.

 

[Lebanezer]

For anyone who has watched even 5 minutes of Worcester Sharks hockey this isn't even a little bit surprising.

It's also a reason why retaining Sommer for as long as they have is a complete joke.

Yeah, I've heard you and 210 mention it quite a bit, I would say "Why is Sommer still the coach?" but I know there is no real answer to that question. It's just foolish.

 

[sr228]

Yeah, I've heard you and 210 mention it quite a bit, I would say "Why is Sommer still the coach?" but I know there is no real answer to that question. It's just foolish.

I guess I should be happy that they finally acknowledged there's an issue but I'll wait and see if anything actually changes.

 

[Levie]

Yeah, I've heard you and 210 mention it quite a bit, I would say "Why is Sommer still the coach?" but I know there is no real answer to that question. It's just foolish.

I'm confused by this too and I'm confused why DW hasn't done anything. A bad AHL coach can make your drafting look worse than it already is. Who knows how many players were seen as failures because their development was stunted in the AHL.

 

[OrrNumber4]

So 210, whomever.

Can I get a list of players who you think that Sommer ruined? I am not talking about guys who might have been career AHLers, or fringe tweeners....

Because it is important to see if it is a drafting issue, or a coaching issue. Sommer's #1 job, by far, is to develop SJ talent, regardless of Worcester fans' frustrations.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I do not think it's a good thing that he said the players in Worcester aren't playing the same system as they are in SJ and that he needs to go down there and make sure that they're on the same page.

That wasn't what he said. He said "IF" the team in Worcester isn't playing the same system, then it's harder when they get called up.

 

[hohosaregood]

That wasn't what he said. He said "IF" the team in Worcester isn't playing the same system, then it's harder when they get called up.

They already aren't.

 

[one2gamble]

I do not think it's a good thing that he said the players in Worcester aren't playing the same system as they are in SJ and that he needs to go down there and make sure that they're on the same page.

I think its a good thing that he is going there, it may be enough to get Som out if he reports back to DW that he wouldnt let him coach his kids in peewee.

 

[210]

So 210, whomever.

Can I get a list of players who you think that Sommer ruined? I am not talking about guys who might have been career AHLers, or fringe tweeners....

Because it is important to see if it is a drafting issue, or a coaching issue. Sommer's #1 job, by far, is to develop SJ talent, regardless of Worcester fans' frustrations.

Three that come to mind right away are Mike Iggulden, Lukas Kaspar, and Brandon Mashinter...guys with decent amounts of talent but really needed a coach that would have kicked them in the arse as opposed to the "friendly guy" style Sommer has.

Sommer does not get the most out of his players. He does virtually no coaching while the game is going on. He has consistently lost with teams more than good enough to make playoff runs. These three facts are well documented.

Doug Wilson has said on several occasions that San Jose has used more of their draft picks in the NHL than any other organization. Now, a question: is that a good thing or a bad thing? First impulse is that's a great thing, but it's really not a good thing. It's actually a terrible stat. It means the guys you bring up to the NHL aren't good enough to stick, so you have to keep trying new guys. It's also why Sommer's number of players sent off to the NHL is so high.

Recalled players from Worcester were pathetically bad in the NHL this season:
93 games, 6-3-9, (-19). One power play point (assist, Kearns), one game winner (Pelech).

If Sommer was such a good coach shouldn't there have been a better choice than Eriah Hayes?

 

[OrrNumber4]

Three that come to mind right away are Mike Iggulden, Lukas Kaspar, and Brandon Mashinter...guys with decent amounts of talent but really needed a coach that would have kicked them in the arse as opposed to the "friendly guy" style Sommer has.

I generally don't think a coach's job, at any level above major juniors, is to motivate players. They need to find that from within. A player who think he can coast on his talent is going to do so until he realizes himself that he cannot. If the lure of an NHL job, NHL salary, and a Stanley Cup isn't enough, is a coach yelling at you really going to do it?

On the specific players, I can definitely agree that Kaspar had the talent. But Mashinter (who also failed to develop in NYR) and Iggulden...that is a bit of a stretch.

Sommer does not get the most out of his players. He does virtually no coaching while the game is going on. He has consistently lost with teams more than good enough to make playoff runs. These three facts are well documented.

Let us table the above, as I said that Sommer's primary job is to develop players. Whether he is winning, making in-game adjustments, etc. is window dressing.

Doug Wilson has said on several occasions that San Jose has used more of their draft picks in the NHL than any other organization. Now, a question: is that a good thing or a bad thing? First impulse is that's a great thing, but it's really not a good thing. It's actually a terrible stat. It means the guys you bring up to the NHL aren't good enough to stick, so you have to keep trying new guys. It's also why Sommer's number of players sent off to the NHL is so high.

That is a bit of a blanket statement. The Sharks, especially under DW, have tended to promote-from-within a lot. They mostly move established veterans to give those young guys a chance. Yeah, there has been a bit of cycling of the goons/marginal players, but it isn't like there is a Worcester shuttle of top-6 d-men or top-9 forwards...

And again, we need to establish that those are talented players that Sommer has trashed. It is not secret that with all the draft picks and prospects the Sharks have traded away over the years, the pool is a little barren. What you are observing, could be a symptom of that.

Recalled players from Worcester were pathetically bad in the NHL this season:
93 games, 6-3-9, (-19). One power play point (assist, Kearns), one game winner (Pelech).

But is that Sommer's fault? Or is it just that he hasn't been given, by the organization, any better players?

If Sommer was such a good coach shouldn't there have been a better choice than Eriah Hayes?

Again, we need to establish that Sommer was given a chance to develop a player better than Eriah Hayes.

Eriah Hayes is a fringe talent...

 

[210]

If you don't think part of developing players is occasionally kicking one in the arse when he needs it because he is hurting himself by not being motivated enough than there's nothing I can do to help you.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If you don't think part of developing players is occasionally kicking one in the arse when he needs it because he is hurting himself by not being motivated enough than there's nothing I can do to help you.

The winning and in-game adjustments part is probably something that should be disputed as well. These players are not fully developed physically nor mentally. Why wouldn't motivating them be a part of development? Why wouldn't teaching them how to win be part of development? Why would not teaching players to adjust on-the-fly not be a part of development?

 

[Led Zappa]

The winning and in-game adjustments part is probably something that should be disputed as well. These players are not fully developed physically nor mentally. Why wouldn't motivating them be a part of development? Why wouldn't teaching them how to win be part of development? Why would not teaching players to adjust on-the-fly not be a part of development?

Just watching Robinson with the tykes tells me a different story.

I love the info you supply 210, but I have to take your opinions with a grain of salt lately.

Probably have to take most people over there and their opinion with a grain of salt since you are all so disgruntled.

The best motivation those players have is the history of being given chances with the big club.

 

[210]

Just watching Robinson with the tykes tells me a different story.

I love the info you supply 210, but I have to take your opinions with a grain of salt lately.

Probably have to take most people over there and their opinion with a grain of salt since you are all so disgruntled.

The best motivation those players have is the history of being given chances with the big club.

There are posters from the San Jose area on this forum that say the exact same things I do. Are they disgruntled too?

 

[hohosaregood]

There are posters from the San Jose area on this forum that say the exact same things I do. Are they disgruntled too?

Kinda depends on who's saying it.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Doug Wilson has said on several occasions that San Jose has used more of their draft picks in the NHL than any other organization. Now, a question: is that a good thing or a bad thing? First impulse is that's a great thing, but it's really not a good thing. It's actually a terrible stat. It means the guys you bring up to the NHL aren't good enough to stick, so you have to keep trying new guys. It's also why Sommer's number of players sent off to the NHL is so high.

This logic only works if you decide to completely ignore the existence of trades. Trying to claim that a high conversion rate is a terrible stat is a pretty dubious claim... Also the stat isn't just number of players making it to the NHL, it is NHL games played by their draft picks; the sharks are second in that regard.

 

[210]

This logic only works if you decide to completely ignore the existence of trades. Trying to claim that a high conversion rate is a terrible stat is a pretty dubious claim... Also the stat isn't just number of players making it to the NHL, it is NHL games played by their draft picks; the sharks are second in that regard.

Have a source for that info?

 

[jarr92]

Have a source for that info?

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=724045

 

[Led Zappa]

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=724045

That Info is AWESOME

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This logic only works if you decide to completely ignore the existence of trades. Trying to claim that a high conversion rate is a terrible stat is a pretty dubious claim... Also the stat isn't just number of players making it to the NHL, it is NHL games played by their draft picks; the sharks are second in that regard.

Yes but it is still an issue in the sense that 210 is talking about. A lot of their guys are guys that they felt they could do better in with a trade rather than sticking on their own club. There's good and bad sides to that kind of stat. It's sort of a quantity versus quality thing.

 

[210]

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=724045

Thanks, although I was hoping for the whole list.

What's interesting is Doug Wilson's claim that more of SJ's draft picks playing in the NHL than any other organization is not on that infographic...

 

[OrrNumber4]

Thanks, although I was hoping for the whole list.

What's interesting is Doug Wilson's claim that more of SJ's draft picks playing in the NHL than any other organization is not on that infographic...

#1 seems a bit too high...

 

[210]

#1 seems a bit too high...

DW said it in a room full of people on two occasions (both "State of the WorSharks" events) and last time he said it twice during the event. I have videos of the first event, but because I'm an idiot and didn't bring extra batteries for my Flip camera I couldn't get the whole event so I don't know if I have the portion where he says it.

If you go to YouTube and search "State of the WorSharks" you'll find the videos of the first event I posted on Sharkspage. I'm pretty sure I have a couple more short ones but they'd be on the laptop I don't use much anymore. When I get a chance I'll fire it up and see if they are on it.

 

[OrrNumber4]

If you don't think part of developing players is occasionally kicking one in the arse when he needs it because he is hurting himself by not being motivated enough than there's nothing I can do to help you.

At age 20+? How is this really going to work?

An NHL job and his career should be enough motivation. This whole idea of coaches being able to motivate players by yelling and them or benching them isn't a good one, IMO. In the vast majority of cases, the player will pout or play better for a couple of games, before returning to his lazy play.

The winning and in-game adjustments part is probably something that should be disputed as well. These players are not fully developed physically nor mentally. Why wouldn't motivating them be a part of development? Why wouldn't teaching them how to win be part of development? Why would not teaching players to adjust on-the-fly not be a part of development?

So physically, sure, the players are not completely developed. Mentally? It is mostly all there. They will have the training habits they have; change will come organically, not from a threat.

In regards to in-game adjustments....sure, you want your players to be versatile. You want them to be able to succeed against different players. But there won't be the urgency of making an adjustment in order to win. Like, for example, if Sommer has thrown out a bad combination out there, and it has cost his team 2 goals, while an NHL coach would immediately yank them, Sommer would keep them out there to see if they can figure things out, or in another way make them find ways of working with each other. The fact that doing so costs his team the win is less relevant.

Just a hypothetical!

 

[210]

At age 20+? How is this really going to work?

An NHL job and his career should be enough motivation. This whole idea of coaches being able to motivate players by yelling and them or benching them isn't a good one, IMO. In the vast majority of cases, the player will pout or play better for a couple of games, before returning to his lazy play.

You do know that occasionally NHL coaches kick player's behinds to motivate them too, right? You might not like the idea, but it doesn't change the fact it has to happen occasionally.