Pre-Game Talk: 2014 Pre-Season/Training Camp

[modano]

I guess that Valley is preferring Lindback and therefore made a good case for him (considering their history and the words after signing Lindback).
Valley gets too much praise for his work. Except for Lehtonen none of his (NHL) goalies really improved.

 

[OttMorrow]

I still don't feel like they gave Rynnas much of a chance... Seemed like they knew going in they'd pick Lindback...

I agree. There really was no battle for the backup position. I really think that Campbell is going to get his shot to prove himself worthy of the being heir to Kari's throne this year.

 

[john skull]

I agree. There really was no battle for the backup position. I really think that Campbell is going to get his shot to prove himself worthy of the being heir to Kari's throne this year.

I hope he doesn't get his shot, which would mean lindback is playing well and the stars can afford to let him mature in CP.

 

[Bluesoma]

Interesting bit about the scrimmage yesterday. No Glennie.

 

[BigG44]

Interesting bit about the scrimmage yesterday. No Glennie.

Sounds like an injury:

Sean Shapiro ‏@seanshapiro

It appears Scott Glennie is out again. He didn’t skate in scrimmage yesterday or practice Friday. Will ask Laxdal after game. #txstars

 

[piqued]

Any reports on how Jokipakka played in the Green/White scrimmage?

 

[Primetimey*]

Any reports on how Jokipakka played in the Green/White scrimmage?

Good.

 

[BigG44]

Any reports on how Jokipakka played in the Green/White scrimmage?

He had a nice goal in the highlights. Hemsky dropped the puck to him. I was at a b-day party so I had to miss.

 

[Bluesoma]

Yeah saw that Glennie is injured or something. Maybe sick as it seems something is going around (Jack and Val).

Jokipakka looked ok. Not a whole lot outside of his goal.
Oleksiak wasn't very noticeable either.
Klingberg was a mixed back. Either he made a nice play or had a noticeable mistake.

Interestingly they cycled Ritchie and Ranford with Benn and Seguin.

Cole looked good. Like he was forechecking really well and made some really nice plays. Hopefully he carries that into the regular season.

Lastly, I totally saw Hemsky backcheck.....MULTIPLE TIMES!

 

[Troy McClure]

I guess that Valley is preferring Lindback and therefore made a good case for him (considering their history and the words after signing Lindback).
Valley gets too much praise for his work. Except for Lehtonen none of his (NHL) goalies really improved.

I'm struggling to find any goalie he's coached who is still even in the NHL other than Kari. Bachman, Raycroft, Nilstorp, Ellis, Thomas... all washed out.

 

[Elysian]

I'm struggling to find any goalie he's coached who is still even in the NHL other than Kari. Bachman, Raycroft, Nilstorp, Ellis, Thomas... all washed out.

Bachman wasn't great to begin with. Raycroft was on his way out of the league already. Nilstorp was never going to be an NHL goalie. Ellis is done for. Thomas was done for. I see your point, that he doesn't have much NHL talent to boast about, but he wasn't given much talent to be able to turn around either, besides Kari. Hell, you think Thomas is going to listen to a Mike Valley? Thomas has his own crazy style.

 

[Bluesoma]

I think it's a bit early to judge Valley on the backup goalies picked up by Dallas.

I think Campbell will be the first real indication of Valley's training ability.

 

[Troy McClure]

I think it's a bit early to judge Valley on the backup goalies picked up by Dallas.

I think Campbell will be the first real indication of Valley's training ability.

Maybe. Although, I wonder what it says about a coach when his only two success stories come from working with guys who were #2 and #11 overall picks. I guess I can give him credit for doing well with players everyone knew were really talented before he ever got involved in coaching them.

 

[Bluesoma]

Well to be honest he hasn't had much talent given to him by the organization.

Other than the stop gap goalies given to him by Dallas (Ellis, Thomas, Nihlstorp, etc) who were already past their prime, he had only two drafted goalies to work with in Beskowrany and Bachman. Both, even with all the coaching available, are borderline guys.

So for now I'm willing to give Valley some lee-way. Rynnas and Lindback are still relatively young (for goaltenders).

 

[glovesave_35]

Didn't we have the Mike Valley discussion a few weeks ago?

He gets a ton of love on these boards and from people within the organization but I don't see what he has to hang his hat on. If somebody is a great goalie coach you expect to see rise in play from lower level goalies and realization of potential by supposedly elite goalies. Lehtonen has done well under him but he hasn't exactly dazzled with his backup goalies, crap as they may be.

An argument can be made that the most important way a goalie coach can improve a team is by improving play at the backup position, i.e. improving players who obviously have room to improve. You expect your stud #1 to be able to kind of take care of himself while picking up a few pointers here and there. Backup goalies obviously have warts in their games and one would assume more amenable to coaching. I'm not crapping on Valley, I just don't see anything in his resume to substantiate claims that he is anything but an average goalie coach.

 

[Bluesoma]

Eh, I'd say Valley has the pedigree and the results of Kari but he's still young and has to prove he can live up to it. He's done a so-so job of it so far.

But a lot of big name goalie coaches haven't exactly did great with their backup goalies with. Mitch Korn and Fracnis Allaire come to mind on that.


In other news, Oleksiak is the 7th D during practice......

 

[BigG44]

I don't remember who or why, but I seem to remember someone being interested in Steven Oleksy. He's on waivers, and he's only due $550K. Because of Dillon and Eakin's contracts, you actually could afford him.

The only thing that stuck out to me was he's a right shot, and Dallas has zero. He seems like a Rome level defender, personally. His main benefit would be allowing Oleksiak to go back to the AHL sooner.

 

[glovesave_35]

But a lot of big name goalie coaches haven't exactly did great with their backup goalies with. Mitch Korn and Fracnis Allaire come to mind on that.

So are you saying that the backup goalies who have risen to starter status behind good/very good goalies were destined to do so?

 

[BigG44]

I should have added ... if Dallas was going to take a D off of waivers, I would hope it would have been T.J. Brennan. He at least might be a guy who could help.

I wouldn't expect them to make any claims.

 

[Bluesoma]

So are you saying that the backup goalies who have risen to starter status behind good/very good goalies were destined to do so?

Consider most that those "back up" goalies were prospects that were going to....yes?

Can you name any recent backups that took over the job? That wasn't ever expected to be a starter?

 

[glovesave_35]

Consider most that those "back up" goalies were prospects that were going to....yes?

Can you name any recent backups that took over the job? That wasn't ever expected to be a starter?

Richard Bachman was "expected" to be better than he is now.

On the latter part, you're twisting my words a bit. I'm not saying that prospects can't turn into good starting goaltenders. My point was that those guys probably don't become starting goaltenders in spite of mediocre goaltending coach work.

At what point are goalies considered legitimate prospects? Elliot, Quick, Lundqvist, Mason, Niemi, Bishop, Bobrovsky, Halak, Hiller...all were drafted (or undrafted) after the 2nd round. Nobody drafted after the 2nd round is what one would consider "expected" to be a starter or full time NHL'er.

 

[Bluesoma]

I took your comment in context of your comment about coaches should be judged by elevating the performance of backup goalies.

I should restate my comment into this. "Most backup goalies who take over the starting job are at that time expected to do so."

When Bachman was backing up Kari, did we ever consider him a legitimate starting goalie?

All of those you listed were expected to take over (or was starting) at some point. To me it seems that it takes a year or two in the pros (AHL or whatever) before you really can tell who a legitimate prospect is.

I'm not saying Valley is a great coach. I'll say he's an above average coach right now.

 

[Troy McClure]

I don't have any reason to believe he's even above average. What makes him better than half of the other goalie coaches in the league? I can't even name three other goalie coaches, but I also have no reason to think Valley is anything but a warm body for the Stars. Is he better than Andy Moog was at the job? Andy Moog was the coach at the time Stars backups were getting trained up and leaving to play elsewhere in some nice roles.

All I know of him is he's been the coach during a run of the worst backup goaltending of the past 20+ years. And it's not like the starter is a world beater, either. Kari isn't anything like Brodeur was in his prime where the backup really didn't matter at all. And my opinion on Valley went from strong indifference to recent disappointment after finding out he's the reason we're saddled with Lindback.

 

[Bluesoma]

This should all go back to the goalie madness thread as it's just now arguing with each other.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

I'm closing this one up anyways, since we're done with pre-season and training camp now.