Ambassador Of Fun
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- Jun 23, 2010
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I don't mean to put words in txomisc's mouth, but he didn't say you said that either. He answered your question about why you take him over Milano
Prospect Info: 2014 NHL Entry Draft
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I don't mean to put words in txomisc's mouth, but he didn't say you said that either. He answered your question about why you take him over Milano
txomisc
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Well if you dont think Milano is as talented as Ho-Sang the question you asked is pretty friggen easy to answer, is it not?
I'm all over Ho-Sang if he's still there in the 2nd, hell even trading up if he's there in the early second. Give him a few years toiling away with a hardass coach in the minors and he'll mature his game.
In the 2nd sure, he's definitely worth it but I'm totally not okay with taking him anywhere near 14.
TangoMcBride
Registered User
I'd love to get him with our second pick (I'm on board with trading up if necessary). I honestly wouldn't be pissed if we took him with our 1st but if some perceived "character flaws" allow us to nab him along with someone like Fabbri/Fiala/Barbashev as well? Umm yes please. I don't mind the brash confidence at all. God forbid someone show some personality. Jesus Christ.
Starry Knight
Tele-Wyatt
I can guarantee that there are people with worse attitudes slotted ahead of him. I feel like he and Mckeowen have been under the microscope for too long and are falling because of it. They were so highly touted coming out of minor hockey and are doing well in junior hockey, but scouts just want more and more. Because they expect them to be top talents.
OttMorrow
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It only sounds like arrogance because we're so used to robotic answers from players with no personality. I have no problem with a guy speaking his mind, he has a right to be frustrated and disgusted with the hockey old boys club after the way he was handled in the OHL - did you see that play that got him a 20+ game suspension? with no history of discipline? Wouldn't have even been looked at if it was some kid from a more traditional (=white) background.
Nobody debates that this kid has first round talent, the talent of a top line player in the NHL. His personality is going to evolve over time, I was pretty angry myself at 18... I mean I still am pretty angry, but I've seen other people change over time.
This kid is all about himself. He also takes no personal responsibility. It's all everyone else's fault. Hockey is more of a team sport than any of the other major sports in this country. This isn't about drafting an angry, immature, arrogant kid in the hopes of a feel good story 15 years from now about how the guy came full circle. Our basic personality remains constant throughout life, so expecting an about-face from this kid after a couple years of "maturation" in the real world that is professional sports haha...is going to leave you disappointed more than likely. The draft is about constructing a TEAM through the picking of it's parts. The NHL teams haven't black-balled him just because they can. They did it because he doesn't have the maturity to not spout out at the mouth and they don't want that to interfere with their teams which are bigger than any one player.
txomisc
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That wouldnt be terrible although it would feel like a safe pick rather than aiming for highest potential.
Mark Edwards posted in his draft thread today with some good info scouting Ho Sang this year:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=86881065&postcount=576
He's definitely not just falling because of his personality alone. It sounds like he has issues playing defense and trying to do too much on his own. All can be coached if the kid wants to succeed.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=86881065&postcount=576
He's definitely not just falling because of his personality alone. It sounds like he has issues playing defense and trying to do too much on his own. All can be coached if the kid wants to succeed.
yeah yeah I've heard it before. 5 years later everyone wonders how he fell to the 2nd round.
How about we just focus on picking the player who projects as the highest skilled guy available, and work to mold them into the perfect automaton after the fact. Him being this terrible locker room cancer didn't stop his team from making the playoffs under his leadership as their leading scorer.
OttMorrow
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OttMorrow
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Kyle Beach in 08.. I had a lot of fun looking back at what was said him.
If Hockey Canada doesn't want the kid (Ho-Sang) they obviously have their reasons, I'm not exactly comfortable taking him. Especially when 12 teams didn't even bother to interview him.
OttMorrow
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I was all about the mean, skilled, big power forward, Beach at the time. I was also all about Schremp and Esposito as well. None of them worked out. Some of them were billed as being extraordinarily talented at the time. More times than not, these guys fall for a reason, and swinging for the fence on these types usually doesn't work out. Even if it does work out and they aren't a bust, you can end up trading them at a discount down the road just to get them off of your team.
Ambassador Of Fun
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While the players you mention all have the knock on them for personality/mental aspects of the game, the only player who you mentioned that remotely has the speed and hands of Ho-Sang is Esposito, and then he blew out his knees. Beach was just bigger than everyone, and Schremp was like Kyle Wellwood, but not as fast.
Why are you guys comparing a highly skilled forward (who has stats comparable to the top prospects in this draft) to guys who had nowhere near the skill or the stat line like Kyle Beach, who's draft stock got inflated because old school NHL GM's put more stock in punching other players than actual talent.
There are only so many 17 year old kids who are going to lead their playoff team in scoring and get up into that 1.2 - 1.3 ppg range. If you get a chance to take one, you do it. Those guys bust far less often than your average 1st round pick.
There are only so many 17 year old kids who are going to lead their playoff team in scoring and get up into that 1.2 - 1.3 ppg range. If you get a chance to take one, you do it. Those guys bust far less often than your average 1st round pick.
Frozen Failure
They got business in my hockey, and I hate it.
my counter argument:
http://canucksarmy.com/2014/5/20/we-think-the-vancouver-canucks-may-have-a-scouting-problem
Man does study, finds that simply selecting the next highest scoring draft eligible junior player with their picks produces massively better results than whatever the hell actual NHL team has been doing.
Fans of other teams did the same analysis, and it works out pretty much every time. Sometimes it is as simple as just taking the guy who can prove he can score. Sure not every single one of those picks worked out, but as a whole it resulted in far more regular NHL players than the other options. I Might actually try to run this experiment for the Stars later out of interest.
OttMorrow
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Because the point is the same. "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard and nobody likes a p**ck"....I believe the quote goes. I think it's easy from a fan perspective at times to say "yeah whatever. take him." when you don't have to play with, coach, or manage these kids. If you actually have to sleep in the bed you make, you'd probably have a different view on taking a-holes.
GlassesJacketShirt
Registered User
Bingo.
Let's not even consider the attitude issues here. For all his talent, I do not think his game or hockey IQ is nearly good enough to just rely on his skill set right now. He needs to improve quite a bit before he can be a net positive NHLer. This is why he was a late tweener/20s pick before June started.
Now, let's add these potential issues that have comes across through interviews and such. All of a sudden you have to ponder whether you think this kid thinks he's much better than he is. It's one thing to be confident in yourself and think you can be No. 1, but there's a fine line between being too confident and being outright self-absorbed. Guys like Patrick Kane fall into the former.
I agree with you, OttMorrow. This is tough case that requires tons of pondering.
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