Prospect Info: 2014 NHL Entry Draft

[OttMorrow]

So much self control and keeping it in check ... he made the same mistake twice. More importantly ... noting about Ho-Sang was a mistake. He'd didn't cross a line or do something he should need to ask to be forgiven. He has a personality people don't like.

That's a bit crazy we'd compare some sort of slur ... two slurs on different occasions ... to being arrogant.

Just be consistent. To me it would seem like if your against Ho-Sang's personality, it doesn't make sense to be OK with DeAngelo's character. Good for him .. he was coached better in his interviews and more willing to say what needed to be said to come off not like a ______ (insert whatever awful thing that comment was to get you suspended ... twice).

Like I said ... I'm a bit surprised that DeAngelo is somehow OK but Ho Sang is not. Even the media up until the last few articles ... seems much more forgiving of DeAngelo. I think they're in similar ... red flag boats ... however you want to put it. They also seem to be highly skilled at their position which is why the comparison is so interesting.

I just don't buy DeAngelo's choir boy act lately.

I never said I was "OK with DeAngelo's character". I was merely explaining why DeAngelo is less under the microscope than Ho-Sang. I don't want either.

 

[Satan]

That's honestly cool. I'm not trying to sell anyone one way or he other. Just pointing out what seems to be potentially flawed logic between the two with some.

I do want to know how you'd feel if Dallas takes one of them ... or hell both? Are you pissed?

I'll be pissed off like when we took Campbell or traded Neal. I think I get over these decisions quite easily... maybe too easily.

I guess it's easier to get over these decisions I disagree with if you look towards our future. I like Ho-Sang when he is on the ice just not off.



But yeah I think I'd be pissed off if we took those guys over a couple prospects I really like. I'll forgive Nill and co if we take Spencer Watson in the 3rd though

 

[OttMorrow]

What would be funny would be if a team took both Ho-Sang and DeAngelo, just to see what would happen next if they were both playing for the same team Reality show!

 

[BigG44]

I never said I was "OK with DeAngelo's character". I was merely explaining why DeAngelo is less under the microscope than Ho-Sang. I don't want either.

I'm not picking you out in particular ... I'm saying that when we discussed DeAngelo, and when I see him debated elsewhere .... he's not nearly as untouchable to most people as Ho-Sang is.

It comes down to this, and I honestly don't think we can make the call unless you know these guys personally .... Brett Hull and Sean Avery have similar arrogance. One was able to be a major part of a championship team, and the other wore out his welcome on every single team he ever played for.

Both have insane confidence, and a don't give a damn what you think flair that at times can be admirable. Depending on who you are.

I have no clue if Ho-Sang is more Hull or more Avery ... or heck Modano. That guy was an idiot that said the wrong thing several times. I still absolutely love Hull and Modano ... can't stand Avery.

Hate speech to me is more cut and dry than what's going on with Ho-Sang. It's easier for me to understand and know exactly why I don't trust that guy. Hockey is a fairly progressive and accepting sport ... on race, sexuality ... many things. The players that engage in that kind of off putting banter ... heck the fans (throwing banana's at Simmonds) .... don't really survive. Whatever it was .... DeAngelo's comments would hurt a locker room. You have to believe he's really going to be a better person to survive in this environment.

I don't know that Ho-Sang is a cancer or potential cancer the way DeAngelo might be. Maybe he is just Patrick Kane like he says he wants to be. I'll take a drunk, partying Kane every day of the week. Boston wouldn't ... they didn't apparently like that part of Seguin. I don't think he's close to the partier Kane appears to be.

Like I said ... I just think it's a pretty interesting discussion. Most scouts it seems tend to feel Ho-Sang is more Avery than any of these lovable, flamboyant types.

 

[Satan]

"I think it should be a level playing field. Where it's like, I can talk to you. I can tell you I think you're an idiot and that I think we should be running a different power play, we should be running a different penalty kill," Ho-Sang told ESPN The Magazine. "And you can tell me as a player, 'You're an idiot. You can shut up. I'm the coach.' I want a relationship like that."

Rest of the article http://m.espn.go.com/nhl/story?storyId=11132294

 

[txomisc]

"I think it should be a level playing field. Where it's like, I can talk to you. I can tell you I think you're an idiot and that I think we should be running a different power play, we should be running a different penalty kill," Ho-Sang told ESPN The Magazine. "And you can tell me as a player, 'You're an idiot. You can shut up. I'm the coach.' I want a relationship like that."

Rest of the article http://m.espn.go.com/nhl/story?storyId=11132294

Ok yeah that article makes me want to shy away from him. It sounds like instead of learning to play defense he'd just tell the coach hes an idiot. Also he thinks doubling his penalty minutes is indicative of something positive.

 

[Zrhutch]

Honestly, after reading the article, I think he'd fit in just fine on a team of young players like ours. On a team of vets, like say Boston, he'd be absolutely crucified. It seems like he's less of an ego and more of a progressive mindset to me, but I don't know how well that would mesh. It's tough to say. You can't really go wrong with him with our 2nd though. Put me on the train.

 

[Zrhutch]

Ok yeah that article makes me want to shy away from him. It sounds like instead of learning to play defense he'd just tell the coach hes an idiot.

I thought that too, but then I thought about that quote with the scout yelling at him, and Ho-Sang asking him to dinner afterwards. The kid is willing to learn, he just wants to be challenged with it. Lindy can do that.

 

[Satan]

I mean it's easy for a writer to use quotes from him one way or another but I didn't think he was worth the risk prior to the two new articles about him and I really really don't think he's worth it now.

 

[Satan]

Growing up playing hockey, the kids that always told the coaches off had large over-inflated egos and we're me first. Ho-Sang reminds me of those kids and I guarantee you I wouldn't want that on my favorite hockey team.

It's just extra work for the coaches that want him to get better and succeed.

 

[Zrhutch]

I grew up playing the game as well, and I definitely agree with you on that point about the inflated egos. However I think we're just seeing this guy different ways, and that's perfectly fine. In my view, he's just a different thinker, who's absolutely deadly with the puck. Yeah he's out there with his mindset, but I kind of like that he doesn't fit the mold in that way. He just seems like the kind of kid that's gonna make GMs that passed on him for attitude issues look silly, which I'm sure everyone's familiar with.

 

[OttMorrow]

I grew up playing the game as well, and I definitely agree with you on that point about the inflated egos. However I think we're just seeing this guy different ways, and that's perfectly fine. In my view, he's just a different thinker, who's absolutely deadly with the puck. Yeah he's out there with his mindset, but I kind of like that he doesn't fit the mold in that way. He just seems like the kind of kid that's gonna make GMs that passed on him for attitude issues look silly, which I'm sure everyone's familiar with.

I don't think anyone that passes on him is ever going to feel silly. It's obvious that he's talented, but they don't feel he's worth the headache no matter how good he is. This isn't basketball in that one good player can't win it all for you. You have to have the support of your team. If he scored 4 goals per game, than it would be different. Until he can do that, he needs team much more than a team needs him. He can't change that no matter how progressive of a thinker he is.

 

[Zrhutch]

Has there been any reports of him being alienated by his teammates? Quick google didn't turn anything up.

Anyway though- I wouldn't be surprised if we picked Ho-Sang up. I wouldn't be shocked if we passed on him, either. I would however be shocked if Nill outright did not consider him for having a different mindset, or attitude issues. I like the kid, and hope we can get him around the 30-45 range, but I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket, if that makes sense. I just don't see the hockey reasoning for dismissing him altogether.

 

[beepeearr]

I liked the article, reading a lot of the scouting reports on this kid makes it sound like he has elite level talent. Like top 5 talent. If his attitude leads him to drop why not take a risk. Do you want to make a safe pick and draft a guy who might wind up being a 3rd liner, maybe if your lucky a 2nd. Or go with a guy who could be a 1st but maybe only a 2nd. If we can get top 5 talent with the 14th I say go for it. Rather that then a safe pick like in years past.

 

[redbeardtx]

I liked the article, reading a lot of the scouting reports on this kid makes it sound like he has elite level talent. Like top 5 talent. If his attitude leads him to drop why not take a risk. Do you want to make a safe pick and draft a guy who might wind up being a 3rd liner, maybe if your lucky a 2nd. Or go with a guy who could be a 1st but maybe only a 2nd. If we can get top 5 talent with the 14th I say go for it. Rather that then a safe pick like in years past.

Go big or go home. For once though I have confidence in our GM to make the right decisions for this club moving forward...whoever he chooses I'll probably be on board with.

 

[Hull Fan]

Let's say Dallas trades back twice and goes Goldobin, Ho-Sang, DeAngelo, and Vanier. I'm not going to be upset if Dallas takes both problem kids.

At 14 I'd have issues with either one. At say 25 or beyond there's great value in those first 3 names.

And maybe I'm inferring but he sounds like a kid who says why am I doing this, teach me, as opposed to telling me what you want me to do without any explanation. Yes he's brash and less than tactful but that also comes with being a teenager who's among the best at what he does. They're not all good quiet Canadian farm boys.

 

[Stars90]

I would have absolutely no problem with taking Ho-Sang with the 14th pick. I completely understand the worry that people have around here - and teams in general with him not even being on their lists - but I think at 14 (or most assuredly if he's around later and there's a shot to move up) it's worth the risk.

The kid clearly is a different animal than most hockey players, but that's fine. I think if Nill and co. draft him, set out clear expectations for what they're looking for and how they plan to proceed with him, he'll be totally fine. In the Simmons article I posted a little while back he was talking about how bad he wants to be the best and prove it, and that's something that is contagious.

I think the key to this kid is being clear, honest, and fair. To me, Lindy and Nill seem like the perfect combo to get the most out of him.

Could he flame out? Bust? Never play a game and have everyone around him hate him? Of course. But I think we're just dealing with a kid who has a unique upbringing and way about him and just because it's not typical hockey doesn't mean we should shy away from the talent. Plus at the end of the day if that happened we could all look back at the draft and the skill this kid has and say we at least understood the pick.

I hope Nill and co. think so too.

 

[ginblossoms]

for me, that article tips the scales more towards drafting him than against. seems like an interesting kid with diverse interests who wants to learn as much about hockey and the world in general. the more i read, the more it seemed like he had a pk subban kind of personality. kind of amazing to see such maturity in a teenager. the right kind of coach (like bill parcells or probably ruff) can manage him with no problem.

 

[glovesave_35]

So much self control and keeping it in check ... he made the same mistake twice. More importantly ... noting about Ho-Sang was a mistake. He'd didn't cross a line or do something he should need to ask to be forgiven. He has a personality people don't like.

I don't know what you're driving at. He comes across as a primadonna with an attitude. There isn't some vendetta out against this guy or anybody else. He just sounds like an arrogant ass. Confidence is one thing, but he sounds selfish and not a team first player. I pass him over without really thinking twice about it. Maybe I'm kicking myself in the future but that's the chance with any of these guys.

 

[Satan]

Yep. Ho-Sang is a whole different type of lottery ticket if you select him.

 

[glovesave_35]

Feels like Kabanov all over again. Guy was said to have top 10 talent, went in the 3rd round, and is now a 21 year old playing for Modo.

It's possible Ho-Sang ends up as the next Patrick Kane, but if he had quite the amount of talent some are laying at his feet there wouldn't be articles talking about how he might have to wait until the 2nd round or later.

 

[ginblossoms]

without talking to him one-on-one and hanging out with him a while, it is hard to get a sense of what ho-sang is really like just by reading articles. we can read them how we want to read them according to how each author decided to set each article's tone.

did pk subban drop his draft year because of any supposed character flaws? i know he was a 2nd round pick, but i don't recall him being considered a top flight talent that year.

 

[glovesave_35]

without talking to him one-on-one and hanging out with him a while, it is hard to get a sense of what ho-sang is really like just by reading articles. we can read them how we want to read them according to how each author decided to set each article's tone.

FWIW I don't really read many articles that get linked if the meat of the article is player, coach, or GM quotes.

 

[Zrhutch]

It seems that some of us are pro-sang while most are no-sang

 

[Satan]

Well I stole that line Hutchy